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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: SCF, end. Trades, begin.

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:48 PM
  #401
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**** no to Tootoo

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06-25-2013, 12:49 PM
  #402
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2nd one for me. We already have a similar player like Paajarvi in Kreider, while Burmistrov fills a huge hole at 3C right now. the 13th pick can still pick up a solid player.
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Leaning on this too. Draft is pretty good this year.
I'll take the 1st package, if I had to.

Difference between 7 and 13 is Lindholm/Ristolainen/Nichushkin/Monahan instead of Zadorov/Wennberg/Nurse/Gauthier. Burmistrov would be a nice acquisition but I think he's heavily overrated on our forum.

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06-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'll take the 1st package, if I had to.

Difference between 7 and 13 is Lindholm/Ristolainen/Nichushkin/Monahan instead of Zadorov/Wennberg/Nurse/Gauthier. Burmistrov would be a nice acquisition but I think he's heavily overrated on our forum.
This too. I think it's cause the need for some center depth is a little heightened with Burm, it seems more filling

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06-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'll take the 1st package, if I had to.

Difference between 7 and 13 is Lindholm/Ristolainen/Nichushkin/Monahan instead of Zadorov/Wennberg/Nurse/Gauthier. Burmistrov would be a nice acquisition but I think he's heavily overrated on our forum.
True, there is a big difference between 7 and 13, but I think there is a much bigger difference between MPS and Burmistrov.

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06-25-2013, 01:00 PM
  #405
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Does the want for a fighter ever stop? Tootoo is not needed. Rangers already have Dorsett and Asham. People already complain the Rangers don't have a usable 4th line, Tootoo does not improve that.

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06-25-2013, 01:00 PM
  #406
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how about Matt Beleskey from the Ducks?? with Steckel a UFA maybe something along this..



Rangers trade Brian Boyle and Christian Thomas to Ducks
Ducks trade Beleskey and 2ed in 2014 to NYR


Ducks get a big center to replace Steckel....
Rangers get speed on the wing and some grit that can play on the 3rd line and sometimes on the 2ed but not for long stretches
Beleskey is a much better option than Tootoo or Nystrom...

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06-25-2013, 01:01 PM
  #407
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Can we get rid of Bickel and pick up Bickell !!

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06-25-2013, 01:03 PM
  #408
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MPS and Burmistrov are the exact opposites from one another. Paajarvi has the build and talent, but has a ten cent brain. Burmistrov doesn't have the build but has the brains and the talent.

Paajarvi's raw tools are salivatory, but I'm not sure he'll be able to put it all together. A change of scenery may do good, but that's a big gamble.

Burmistrov needs a coach that tells him to worry about offense and hit the gym. He's already a good two way player; it was his calling card his draft year.

As far as having a good and long NHL career, if I'm a betting man, I'd go with Burmistrov.

However, when it comes down to it, you have the chance to draft someone that will be better than both MPS and Burmistrov at 7th overall. The difference between 7th overall and 13th overall is massive this year. The top tier of the draft is about 8 players deep, and then there's a drop off. Jones, Drouin, Mackinnon make up the top tier. Barkov, Nichushkin, Monahan, Lindholm, Nurse round out the top 8. From 8 on, you're looking at projects and players with big question marks. The only two guys I'd want at 13 are Shinkaruk and Pulock, but I think they'll be gone before 13.

In the 7th and Paajarvi or 13th and Burmistrov argument, I'd go with the first package, but I'd possibly look to flip Paajarvi next offseason if he doesn't show any signs of breaking out with a new team.

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06-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #409
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When was the last big trade that wasn't made to improve the team? Or are you talking about HF logic?
Oversimplification, but yeah that's what I'm talking about. The Rangers have pulled a few decent trades the last few years. But I'd like them to change gears and go after a really solid young talent that fills a big need that we have.

We do not have any young, tough, big kids with high upside. Physically intimidating forwards that are good on both sides of the puck and can wear opponents down.

Say what you will about "changes to the game" the one constant in play off hockey is that it will continue to be a war of attrition. The team that can wear it's opponent down and stay healthy will be the one that wins in the end.

Chicago out toughed and out lasted Boston. No small feat. Their tougher players kept coming and helped create room for the skill guys.

Chicago won the game last night and the cup with goals from two "energy" guys in Bickell and Bolland.

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06-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #410
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Not really interested in Tootoo.

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06-25-2013, 01:17 PM
  #411
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3 wrongs don't make a right....

Id rather have Pyatt. Which is saying something
I would rather have Tootoo who is very good in his role.

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Didn't Tootoo have substance abuse issues? Not sure the Rangers would want to go down that path after what happened with Boogaard.
Yes. Alcohol I believe.

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He plays nothing like Prust. Prust is a good defensive player who doesn't stop hustling. Tootoo might have more individual talent, but he is a headcase and very inconsistent player. Which is why he didn't see the ice in the playoffs. He is not very good IMO.
The Rangers needed to replace Prust's toughness and abrasiveness. Tootoo brings that.

He didn't play in the playoffs because the Wings and Babcock don't like to employ toughness. He was very effective for the Preds in the playoffs.

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06-25-2013, 01:17 PM
  #412
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Renaud Lavoie just tweeted this in French, I translated it with google.

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06-25-2013, 01:18 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Rangers79 View Post
Does the want for a fighter ever stop? Tootoo is not needed. Rangers already have Dorsett and Asham. People already complain the Rangers don't have a usable 4th line, Tootoo does not improve that.
He is more than just a fighter. Same goes for Dorsett. But hey, if that's what you think of them, to each their own.

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06-25-2013, 01:20 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I would rather have Tootoo who is very good in his role.



Yes. Alcohol I believe.



The Rangers needed to replace Prust's toughness and abrasiveness. Tootoo brings that.

He didn't play in the playoffs because the Wings and Babcock don't like to employ toughness. He was very effective for the Preds in the playoffs.
well if that is true... the Red Wings should have not signed him.... id love Justin Abdelkader from the Wings.... doubt they trade him although anything can happen..

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06-25-2013, 01:23 PM
  #415
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well if that is true... the Red Wings should have not signed him....
Not arguing that point.

Holland saw an opportunity to bring in someone who can play the game and intimidate a bit. Babcock didn't think he had enough skill to play in the playoffs. I disagree with him. Players like Tootoo wear down the opposing team over a long series.

He is a fierce hitter and he has some offense in him. Good for 15-20 points a year with 100 PIM's. The guy is a factor due to his skating and forechecking.

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06-25-2013, 01:23 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I would rather have Tootoo who is very good in his role.
Tootoo is a far worse producer, worse defensively and way more undisciplined.

Quote:
The Rangers needed to replace Prust's toughness and abrasiveness. Tootoo brings that.
I thought they got that with the acquisition of Dorsett? If they wanted more toughness and abrasiveness, they should've held onto Mike Rupp.

Quote:
He didn't play in the playoffs because the Wings and Babcock don't like to employ toughness. He was very effective for the Preds in the playoffs.
Babcock plays his best players. For years, he's put Todd Bertuzzi on the first line with Datsyuk, even in the playoffs. And there were better options like Hudler in that role to keep up with Pavel.

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06-25-2013, 01:27 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Tootoo is a far worse producer, worse defensively and way more undisciplined.



I thought they got that with the acquisition of Dorsett? If they wanted more toughness and abrasiveness, they should've held onto Mike Rupp.



Babcock plays his best players. For years, he's put Todd Bertuzzi on the first line with Datsyuk, even in the playoffs.
Tootoo had 8 points in 42 games this season playing ~9 minutes a night.

Pyatt had 11 playing 48 games playing ~13 minutes a night.

He is aggressive, that is true. A player in his role is supposed to be.

Rupp can't skate. HUGE difference, and I'm sure you knew that before posting that.

Bertuzzi, for years, has had legit top-6 talent. He is not just some goon. Tootoo is not Bertuzzi.

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06-25-2013, 01:31 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Tootoo had 8 points in 42 games this season playing ~9 minutes a night.

Pyatt had 11 playing 48 games playing ~13 minutes a night.

He is aggressive, that is true. A player in his role is supposed to be.
Pyatt, while soft is a much more dominant board play player, along with a much better defensive game.

There is a difference between being aggressive and just being plain stupid like Tootoo can be (see Miller hit). Prust was an aggressive player, but he never played stupid. Perhaps Prust is truly one of a kind player.

Quote:
Rupp can't skate. HUGE difference, and I'm sure you knew that before posting that.
I think they're very comparable players. Only employed because they play like thugs.

Quote:
Bertuzzi, for years, has had legit top-6 talent. He is not just some goon. Tootoo is not Bertuzzi.
Agreed about Bertuzzi, but you can look at my edited part of my last post.

Please no more cokemachines and undisciplined players. Tootoo is a terrible player that brings nothing useful to this team.I completely disagree with the thought of acquiring him. Overpaid, injury prone, bad hockey player.

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06-25-2013, 01:35 PM
  #419
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Renaud Lavoie just tweeted this in French, I translated it with google.
you could have just waited 2 minutes. he tweets everything in english, right after he tweets it in french. even then it was pretty easy to make out what he was saying: Clowe + test + commotion cérébrale.

edit: in this instance it was a 3 minute differential.

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06-25-2013, 01:37 PM
  #420
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Pyatt, while soft is a much more dominant board play player, along with a much better defensive game.

There is a difference between being aggressive and just being plain stupid like Tootoo can be (see Miller hit). Prust was an aggressive player, but he never played stupid. Perhaps Prust is truly one of a kind player.



I think they're very comparable players. Only employed because they play like thugs.



Agreed about Bertuzzi, but you can look at my edited part of my last post.

Please no more cokemachines and undisciplined players. Tootoo is a terrible player that brings nothing useful to this team.I completely disagree with the thought of acquiring him. Overpaid, injury prone, bad hockey player.
Pyatt is just plain awful. He isn't that great defensively either. He is also extremely slow.

Where do people come up with Tootoo being a thug? He plays physical. Is that not allowed anymore? He fights when called upon. He doesn't amass 300 PIM's a year.

He makes opposing defensemen uncomfortable and he has some offense in him. He isn't a goon. He is a guy who is tough who can also play the game.

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06-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #421
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Complaining about Pyatt but advocating for Tootoo.

This forum makes me scratch my head sometimes.

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06-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Complaining about Pyatt but advocating for Tootoo.

This forum makes me scratch my head sometimes.
One sucks at his role. One does not?

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06-25-2013, 01:58 PM
  #423
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Anything with Dorsett on 3rd line =NO

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06-25-2013, 02:00 PM
  #424
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One sucks at his role. One does not?
Evidence? Aside from the fact that Pyatt has better numbers in both the regular season and playoffs, but obvs that doesn't count.

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06-25-2013, 02:05 PM
  #425
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Evidence? Aside from the fact that Pyatt has better numbers in both the regular season and playoffs, but obvs that doesn't count.
I just laid them out above.

Pyatt 2 years ago in PHX had 19 points. Tootoo had 30. Tootoo in less ice time had 8 points in 42 games. Pyatt had 11 in 48.

I am sure you realize points aren't the entire equation either.

I'll take the guy who fills his role well over the guy who fills absolutely nothing.

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