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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: SCF, end. Trades, begin.

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06-25-2013, 03:21 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
I wouldn't say we'd be lucky to land Nichuskin at #5.

Could perhaps get Jones if the top-3 goes Mac/Barkov/Drouin. I think Nashville would opt for Monahan/Nich over Jones.
Poile said if Jones is there at 4, he's taking him and that he thinks he's the best player in the draft.

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06-25-2013, 03:22 PM
  #502
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Poile said if Jones is there at 4, he's taking him and that he thinks he's the best player in the draft.
Posturing. He wants another team to take him so a forward drops to him.

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06-25-2013, 03:24 PM
  #503
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Pyatt took a 3 month vacation this year. He was decent at the beginning and decent at the end and that's about it. He doesn't pk (a third liner needs to find ways of being useful)--he hits some (at least the stats say so) but the impression more often than not is was he even playing?--personally I'd get rid of him. I like Tootoo but I don't think that avenue is worthwhile. Rangers like most other teams could use a younger version of Tootoo--one who was more versatile. Seriously your bottom liners should score once in a while--they should be good defensively--should be able to do grunt work in the dirty areas and be able to pk. At least some of them should be tough and at least one (better two) very good dropping the gloves.

We've spent too much time, energy and cap space the last several years chasing around goal scorers and guys like Richards. Gaborik had two really good seasons for us--he had two half assed seasons. I'd call him mercurial--or not all that dependable over the long run. Nash is giving me some of the same feelings. Richards looked like a shell this year of the so so Richards of last year.

Chicago, Boston are two teams that develop their players better than us--sometimes it's a matter of being patient--sometimes it's a matter of knowing when to cut bait with one of them. Statistically guys like Toews, Bergeron, Krejci are hardly superstars-- they are excellent players but not even necessarily guys you think of as legit 1st liners on a good many teams--yet these guys came up with their teams and are their leaders. Rangers have a bunch of these guys as well--Callahan, Staal, Girardi--you can see it in younger guys like McDonagh and Stepan as well. They are not necessarily great players but they're low maintenance. You can count on getting good and consistent performances from them game after game--not necessarily something you can say about Gaborik or Nash. That makes them in my eyes more valuable than Gaborik or Nash. Boston and Chicago each seem to have 15 guys like that. That's why they win.

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06-25-2013, 03:24 PM
  #504
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I know everyone's always about Staal to Car or DZ to Edm, but what about DZ to Car?
I think we could get a good return for DZ, but I don't think Carolina would give us the #5 for him. Staal is def worth more to them.

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06-25-2013, 03:24 PM
  #505
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2m
Further to the Carolina tweet. There are financial restrictions the Hurricanes face. Need a top 4 D, but can't pay Letang-like dollars.

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06-25-2013, 03:25 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2m
Further to the Carolina tweet. There are financial restrictions the Hurricanes face. Need a top 4 D, but can't pay Letang-like dollars.
Screams Staal to me.

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06-25-2013, 03:25 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Pyatt took a 3 month vacation this year. He was decent at the beginning and decent at the end and that's about it. He doesn't pk (a third liner needs to find ways of being useful)--he hits some (at least the stats say so) but the impression more often than not is was he even playing?--personally I'd get rid of him. I like Tootoo but I don't think that avenue is worthwhile. Rangers like most other teams could use a younger version of Tootoo--one who was more versatile. Seriously your bottom liners should score once in a while--they should be good defensively--should be able to do grunt work in the dirty areas and be able to pk. At least some of them should be tough and at least one (better two) very good dropping the gloves.

We've spent too much time, energy and cap space the last several years chasing around goal scorers and guys like Richards. Gaborik had two really good seasons for us--he had two half assed seasons. I'd call him mercurial--or not all that dependable over the long run. Nash is giving me some of the same feelings. Richards looked like a shell this year of the so so Richards of last year.

Chicago, Boston are two teams that develop their players better than us--sometimes it's a matter of being patient--sometimes it's a matter of knowing when to cut bait with one of them. Statistically guys like Toews, Bergeron, Krejci are hardly superstars-- they are excellent players but not even necessarily guys you think of as legit 1st liners on a good many teams--yet these guys came up with their teams and are their leaders. Rangers have a bunch of these guys as well--Callahan, Staal, Girardi--you can see it in younger guys like McDonagh and Stepan as well. They are not necessarily great players but they're low maintenance. You can count on getting good and consistent performances from them game after game--not necessarily something you can say about Gaborik or Nash. That makes them in my eyes more valuable than Gaborik or Nash. Boston and Chicago each seem to have 15 guys like that. That's why they win.
Nash was on pace for a PPG this year, even with suffering a concussion.

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06-25-2013, 03:25 PM
  #508
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Del Zotto and Staal are both very affordable for their role. We only need one of them.

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06-25-2013, 03:26 PM
  #509
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Screams Staal to me.
if we moved Staal, imo it would be for skinner, not the #5, just does not make sense for Carolina imo

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06-25-2013, 03:26 PM
  #510
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Del Zotto and Staal are both very affordable for their role. We only need one of them.
I wonder if Carolina would move Rask + the 5th? Right handed, big bodied center.

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06-25-2013, 03:27 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I doubt the Canes would trade the #5 pick before seeing who is on the board. No chance they risk trading the pick for Staal, and then watch Jones slip to us at #5.

IMO, Jones is the best player in this draft. If he slipped beyond #2 I'd be blown away. Realistically, you'd be looking at one of Nichushkin or Drouin, I think. Whichever one Tampa passes on.
Even if Nichushkin becomes current Rick Nash, I'd love Drouin. He's one of those 'creates something out of nothing' players. He can do magical things with the puck.

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06-25-2013, 03:27 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
if we moved Staal, imo it would be for skinner, not the #5, just does not make sense for Carolina imo
Let them move Skinner somewhere else for very good pieces. They can have Staal. I want the 5th overall ++ for Staal. Not Skinner

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06-25-2013, 03:28 PM
  #513
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Nichushkin, Barkov, Drouin or Jones, I'd happily take either one for Staal.

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06-25-2013, 03:28 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Posturing. He wants another team to take him so a forward drops to him.
If Barkov, Drouin and MacKinnon are gone, I don't think he takes Nichushkin or Lindholm over Jones. Jones is going to be a star and he knows it.

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06-25-2013, 03:28 PM
  #515
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I'm not one that would take draft picks over proven guys, but if we got Drouin I'd be doing backflips lol.

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06-25-2013, 03:30 PM
  #516
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I think Slats could get the #5+ for Staal, I trust him here.

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06-25-2013, 03:33 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Del Zotto and Staal are both very affordable for their role. We only need one of them.
Staal and it's frankly not close to me. He's been hurt, but I think his offense has been close to breaking out to the 35 point place and his defense and physicality makes him much more valuable than Del Zotto to me. His board presence was sorely missed this season imo.

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06-25-2013, 03:33 PM
  #518
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I know there are some question marks with Staal...but I don't see how a team looking to contend gets better by moving him for a draft pick. He's got more "risk" perhaps but from a hockey perspective I take him over Del Zotto 200x out of 10.

Nichuskin is tempting though. Ditto Jones if for some reason he is there. Not over the moon on Barkov or Drouin though I have not seen a ton of this class due to a new job / NYR not having a first. So take that with a huge grain of salt.

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06-25-2013, 03:34 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Staal and it's frankly not close to me. He's been hurt, but I think his offense has been close to breaking out to the 35 point place and his defense and physicality makes him much more valuable than Del Zotto to me. His board presence was sorely missed this season imo.
If they get the feeling Staal will stay beyond his current contract then keep him. Otherwise, move him.

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06-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #520
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Nash was on pace for a PPG this year, even with suffering a concussion.
And?--down the stretch and into playoffs his goal scoring and point production took a dive. At that point what else did he do to make himself useful?

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06-25-2013, 03:37 PM
  #521
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Staal and it's frankly not close to me. He's been hurt, but I think his offense has been close to breaking out to the 35 point place and his defense and physicality makes him much more valuable than Del Zotto to me. His board presence was sorely missed this season imo.
None of that matters if he plans on bolting to CAR after his contracts done. Move him now, I just don't see a situation where he doesn't go there.

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06-25-2013, 03:38 PM
  #522
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That probably makes the Rangers a good team, but I hardly see them as cup contenders with only one addition of a 2nd line winger. They need to revamp their forward core.
They would be doing exactly that pretty much with (2) more top 6 guys (one in a del zotto trade, the other in a FA signing/trade)

right now its Nash, Hagelin, Stepan, Brassard, Zuccarrello, Callahan in the top 6 most likely.. If the Rangers were to add 2 more top 6 guys, 2 of Hagelin/Callahan/Zucc get dropped to the 3rd line. Thats a fantastic forward core depending on the fowards obviously.

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06-25-2013, 03:39 PM
  #523
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They would be doing exactly that pretty much with (2) more top 6 guys (one in a del zotto trade, the other in a FA signing/trade)

right now its Nash, Hagelin, Stepan, Brassard, Zuccarrello, Callahan in the top 6 most likely.. If the Rangers were to add 2 more top 6 guys, 2 of Hagelin/Callahan/Zucc get dropped to the 3rd line. Thats a fantastic forward core depending on the fowards obviously.
The problem is that you have tweeners and 3rd line players occupying top 6 spots. Not a sustainable way of winning.

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06-25-2013, 03:39 PM
  #524
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MPS and Burmistrov are the exact opposites from one another. Paajarvi has the build and talent, but has a ten cent brain. Burmistrov doesn't have the build but has the brains and the talent.

Paajarvi's raw tools are salivatory, but I'm not sure he'll be able to put it all together. A change of scenery may do good, but that's a big gamble.

Burmistrov needs a coach that tells him to worry about offense and hit the gym. He's already a good two way player; it was his calling card his draft year.

As far as having a good and long NHL career, if I'm a betting man, I'd go with Burmistrov.

However, when it comes down to it, you have the chance to draft someone that will be better than both MPS and Burmistrov at 7th overall. The difference between 7th overall and 13th overall is massive this year. The top tier of the draft is about 8 players deep, and then there's a drop off. Jones, Drouin, Mackinnon make up the top tier. Barkov, Nichushkin, Monahan, Lindholm, Nurse round out the top 8. From 8 on, you're looking at projects and players with big question marks. The only two guys I'd want at 13 are Shinkaruk and Pulock, but I think they'll be gone before 13.

In the 7th and Paajarvi or 13th and Burmistrov argument, I'd go with the first package, but I'd possibly look to flip Paajarvi next offseason if he doesn't show any signs of breaking out with a new team.
I cant agree on Paajarvi.

He is a good hockey player. Still very young. He got so much more in him than many kids arounds us that most "drools" over.

But he has just not been given a shot. He is not bumping a first overall player, and those kids needs vets too to bring them along.

He is doing alright. Nobody is going to score more on a young team and sheitty minutes/z starts etc.

Burmistrov and Paajarvi are diffrent players. Burmistrov got more upside, not because Paajarvi plays with his head under his arm (if Paajarvi does that, what does Kreider do lol???), but because Burmi is the type who always wants and should have the puck. Burmi skates well and can pickpocket, but he has clearly been rushed and has yet to put things together.

Both are great pickups for sure. Worth MDZ? Well that can certainly be debated. But both are very good. In the same neighborhood as Kreider for sure.

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06-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #525
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If they get the feeling Staal will stay beyond his current contract then keep him. Otherwise, move him.
That's also a big factor.

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