HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Bryz buyout - Miller to Flyers?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-25-2013, 04:00 PM
  #101
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I definitely agree we're unlikely to get a team saver from Miller straight up, but we don't need to in order to parlay it into better futures, and if ever there were a draft to try and get the next superstar, this is it.

So something *around* Miller and 38 for 11, then 11 and 8 for 4.

I know Darcy has said he gives up, but I doubt that this is anything close to "impossible." Adjust the value if you must.
That's a crazy high evaluation of Miller's trade value... :

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:01 PM
  #102
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Read had 1.5 NHL seasons.....too little data to even measure him.

Who was his center?

I look at him as a similar measuring stick to Clarke MacArthur. Paille in his first year in Buffalo has 19 goals.
None of those players were relied upon nearly as much as Read. Completely invalid comparison.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:02 PM
  #103
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
That's a crazy high evaluation of Miller's trade value... :
I know. We've been over this.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:40 PM
  #104
SabresFanNorthPortFL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Port, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,772
vCash: 500
Hello Guys....

I've been beating this drum for weeks.....

Miller/Couturier are the principles...

Miller (50% salary)
Sekera
16th

for

Read
Couturier

Just pull the trigger Darcy. Get-it-freaking-done!!!!!

Then bring in a couple mid line guys (Bickel, Gordon, etc. types)....draft a stud and we're competitive this year!!!

SabresFanNorthPortFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:07 PM
  #105
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 18,028
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
Hello Guys....

I've been beating this drum for weeks.....

Miller/Couturier are the principles...

Miller (50% salary)
Sekera
16th

for

Read
Couturier

Just pull the trigger Darcy. Get-it-freaking-done!!!!!

Then bring in a couple mid line guys (Bickel, Gordon, etc. types)....draft a stud and we're competitive this year!!!
Why are we overpaying for Couturier when we have two players young players (Girgensons/Larrsson) who already project out to fit that exact same role. I like Courturier, but, I'd much rather go after other roles.

And Sekera fills ZERO needs in Philly. They have 6 d-men under contract for 3 million+ (7 if you include Pronger)

If anything we should be getting a d-man back for Miller, not sending a d-man to Philly with Miller to get 2 more forwards (which we already have a glut of)

TehDoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:09 PM
  #106
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Why are we overpaying for Couturier when we have two players young players (Girgensons/Larrsson) who already project out to fit that exact same role. I like Courturier, but, I'd much rather go after other roles.

And Sekera fills ZERO needs in Philly. They have 6 d-men under contract for 3 million+ (7 if you include Pronger)

If anything we should be getting a d-man back for Miller, not sending a d-man to Philly with Miller to get 2 more forwards (which we already have a glut of)
weird perspective...

Couturier is playing a role at the NHL level at 18/19... that Girgs and Larsson need to be groomed for.

Couturier projects much higher... like 1st line all around center

He'd immediately be the best and most important piece in the rebuild... getting him for Miller and a mid 1st would be a coupe

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:26 PM
  #107
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 18,028
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
weird perspective...

Couturier is playing a role at the NHL level at 18/19... that Girgs and Larsson need to be groomed for.

Couturier projects much higher... like 1st line all around center

He'd immediately be the best and most important piece in the rebuild... getting him for Miller and a mid 1st would be a coupe
If he's as good as you (and others) claim, the chances of Philly trading him are slim and none. You are describing him as basically Jonathan Toews....which he isn't and won't be. He'd be a good defensive compliment to Hodgson's offense...but I doubt he'll ever fufill the lofty accolades you are bestowing on him.

Girgenson's is 19....Larrsson is 21....both project to be good two way centers with size.

Miller for Courturier, straight up? Sure, that's a good return.

Miller+16th for Courturier....no thanks.

TehDoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:37 PM
  #108
boots electric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Miller+16th for Courturier....no thanks.
Darcy would be have to be an absolute idiot to turn down that offer. But he wouldn't turn it down because it's an absolute steal

boots electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:42 PM
  #109
Sabresfansince1980
Registered User
 
Sabresfansince1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: from Wheatfield, NY
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,695
vCash: 500
I think Read is closer to what Buffalo already has than to what I prefer them to eventually acquire in a top two RW role. I agree with most of the positive descriptions of Read's game, but I'm hoping for more, and I'd prefer Miller be traded for assets that can go towards acquiring that level of player at some point in the next year or so. Lombardi chose Frattin, a back-up G, and a 2nd rd pick over Read and whatever else may have been involved in the Bernier trade. He's 27 and has peaked in his development...there's no more upside to his solid two-way game and 45 pt production. Again, not bad, but not what I'm hoping for in building a Cup team. With one year left under contract, I just don't have enough confidence in trading Miller for him unless he agrees to an extension as part of the deal. Then if he is agreeing long-term, as mentioned I'm not sure he's the best option in the top six for a Cup team.

Sabresfansince1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:49 PM
  #110
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 11,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Darcy would be have to be an absolute idiot to turn down that offer. But he wouldn't turn it down because it's an absolute steal
Maybe for Logan Couture.

Courturier is so overrated around here.

Beerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 05:59 PM
  #111
boots electric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Maybe for Logan Couture.

Courturier is so overrated around here.
Yes, the 19 y/o that plays on a terrible team in one of the most competitive divisions in the league whilst putting up Elite (with a capital E) possession and defensive stats and with lots of untapped offensive potential is horribly overrated.

boots electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:02 PM
  #112
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 11,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Yes, the 19 y/o that plays on a terrible team in one of the most competitive divisions in the league whilst putting up Elite (with a capital E) possession and defensive stats and with lots of untapped offensive potential is horribly overrated.
Yes. He's a good defensive player. He hasnt proven anything else yet.

Beerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:09 PM
  #113
Rhett4
KALETA REBORN
 
Rhett4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Home of the 'Merks
Country: United States
Posts: 11,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
If he's as good as you (and others) claim, the chances of Philly trading him are slim and none. You are describing him as basically Jonathan Toews....which he isn't and won't be. He'd be a good defensive compliment to Hodgson's offense...but I doubt he'll ever fufill the lofty accolades you are bestowing on him.

Girgenson's is 19....Larrsson is 21....both project to be good two way centers with size.

Miller for Courturier, straight up? Sure, that's a good return.

Miller+16th for Courturier....no thanks.
Girgensons' future is at wing. Regier basically said as much in an interview last week, too, by saying he thought Girgs could play higher on the depth chart at wing. That's in line with what I'm thinking (as someone who watches 2/3 of Amerks games). He could be a 2nd line winger, but I think he tops out as a defensive, third-line center.

Courturier would be fantastic add to this team if they could nab him...not that I think Philly is going to move him. What he did with Crosby and Malkin in the playoffs as a rookie last year was astounding.

I'm interested in a million other Flyer parts, including Laughton (another two-way center ), but no Matt Read. Please!

Rhett4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:13 PM
  #114
Sabresfansince1980
Registered User
 
Sabresfansince1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: from Wheatfield, NY
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
Girgensons' future is at wing. Regier basically said as much in an interview last week, too, by saying he thought Girgs could play higher on the depth chart at wing. Please!
Regier can't be sure of that, and I don't think his comments should be taken that way. It depends on how other players develop. Just because he could slot higher at LW (that can be said about a lot of Cs btw) doesn't mean that's where he'll best fit on the future roster.

Sabresfansince1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:15 PM
  #115
Rob Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 18,127
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
Girgensons' future is at wing. Regier basically said as much in an interview last week, too, by saying he thought Girgs could play higher on the depth chart at wing. That's in line with what I'm thinking (as someone who watches 2/3 of Amerks games). He could be a 2nd line winger, but I think he tops out as a defensive, third-line center.

Courturier would be fantastic add to this team if they could nab him...not that I think Philly is going to move him. What he did with Crosby and Malkin in the playoffs as a rookie last year was astounding.

I'm interested in a million other Flyer parts, including Laughton (another two-way center ), but no Matt Read. Please!
I don't agree that Darcy was saying that Girgs future is at wing. He said basically what we've been saying since day one: he could play wing in the top 6 or center (or play wing) on the 3rd line. You basically see it the same way, so we're in agreement. That doesn't mean his future is at wing, though. It's more a matter of who else we have to handle the 3rd line duties (e.g. Larsson), who else we have for top 6 wingers (might get ugly there if we trade Vanek), and how well his offensive game develops.

That said, you're really only saying this as an argument in favor of having room or need for Couturier and I agree. Couturier still has a lot to prove and improve upon offensively, but he clearly is more likely to be, say, a second line center than Girgs ever will be. These are the kinds of players you can't really be in danger of having too many of, because they can center your second, third lines and play wing anywhere in the line-up. LA is built around players like this (Kopitar, Richards, Brown... Stoll).

Rob Paxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:16 PM
  #116
boots electric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,240
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Yes. He's a good defensive player. He hasnt proven anything else yet.
And the as-yet undrafted prospect we're going to select at #16 has proven what? And saying he's "good" is an understatement.

If you can pick up a potential 1st-line center for an aging goalie who is probably going to walk in free agency and the 16th overall pick, you absolutely do it. It's a moot point however, because Philadelphia wouldn't consider it to begin with.

boots electric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:26 PM
  #117
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 11,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
And the as-yet undrafted prospect we're going to select at #16 has proven what? And saying he's "good" is an understatement.

If you can pick up a potential 1st-line center for an aging goalie who is probably going to walk in free agency and the 16th overall pick, you absolutely do it. It's a moot point however, because Philadelphia wouldn't consider it to begin with.
I never said I wouldnt do the deal.. I said it would not be considered a steal.. Given the circumstances Would be wise for Buffalo to do that deal..in terms of what each player brings and has proven.. its not a steal at all. Point is I think hes highly overrated on this board.

Beerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:32 PM
  #118
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,615
vCash: 500
You know who you get if Couturier never develops an offensive game? Martin Hanzal. Yeah, that would be terrible.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:36 PM
  #119
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 11,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You know who you get if Couturier never develops an offensive game? Martin Hanzal. Yeah, that would be terrible.
nope not terrible.. but overrated and nothing special either .. I do it for the simple fact of the position we are in interms of rebuilding and Millers place within that rwbuild.

Beerz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:38 PM
  #120
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
If he's as good as you (and others) claim, the chances of Philly trading him are slim and none. You are describing him as basically Jonathan Toews....which he isn't and won't be. He'd be a good defensive compliment to Hodgson's offense...but I doubt he'll ever fufill the lofty accolades you are bestowing on him.

Girgenson's is 19....Larrsson is 21....both project to be good two way centers with size.

Miller for Courturier, straight up? Sure, that's a good return.

Miller+16th for Courturier....no thanks.
i have no words

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:38 PM
  #121
drinking bleach irl
don't be so serious
 
drinking bleach irl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 11,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You know who you get if Couturier never develops an offensive game? Martin Hanzal. Yeah, that would be terrible.
Don't sell Hanzal short. He's scored 15 more points in 20 fewer games over the past two years. And that's on a team that scores 30 fewer goals per year!

I really like Hanzal.

drinking bleach irl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:39 PM
  #122
La Cosa Nostra
The Future
 
La Cosa Nostra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Yes, the 19 y/o that plays on a terrible team in one of the most competitive divisions in the league whilst putting up Elite (with a capital E) possession and defensive stats and with lots of untapped offensive potential is horribly overrated.
He also is brutal with a capital B on face offs and has shown literally nothing that says he will be a top scorer in the league yet.Pretty much he is the defensive center version of Hodgson, really good at one end and pretty terrible at the other He was the worst Flyer in fo%. If you are elite defensive center you need to be better then 43.9% on face off draws. He's young, he has a lot of potential but just because he made the Flyers at 19 he is bestowed as one of the best centers in the league already

La Cosa Nostra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:40 PM
  #123
drinking bleach irl
don't be so serious
 
drinking bleach irl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 11,299
vCash: 500
It's completely understandable to refuse that offer assuming you think Couturier will not develop better than whoever you draft at 16 plus the value you would return in a separate trade for Miller.

I doubt that happens but if a certain player fell...








e: VVV no lie, best post in the thread

drinking bleach irl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:40 PM
  #124
Soapy3PO
Rookie User
 
Soapy3PO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: The Universe.
Country: Poland
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Philly's GM is whacko so any proposal in this thread is valid.

Soapy3PO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:42 PM
  #125
Sabretip
Registered User
 
Sabretip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 7,927
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Braydon Coburn makes a bit of sense for Buffalo
But not for Philadelphia....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deevo View Post
I can't believe the amount of Flyers fans on the Flyers board who want nothing to do with Ryan Miller
Given the alternatives they face - putting all their trust into Mason as the starter; recycling Emery for a 2nd stint; signing Luongo after a buyout that will still cost $5M/yr; signing Smith to a $5M+ deal that will likely be for 5-6 year term after what amounts to 1 good season in his career; or hoping Nabokov has anything left in the tank at age 37 - the Flyers could do far worse than trusting their fortunes to Miller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
Chris Nichols ‏@Nichols_NHLPool 6m
GM Paul Holmgren says #Flyers will NOT pursue Roberto Luongo. #Canucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Not much of a surprise. They're out of buyouts so they have no recourse if he sucks, and they literally gave up the Vezina winner because they had a goalie locked up for the next eternity.
If the Canucks buy out Luongo first and make him a free agent, it won't be a factor. However, I think Luongo will still demand up to $5M per year. He'll just make sure it won't be for a ridiculous term again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Miller, Sekera, 16th FOR Couturier, 11th
Be ambitious:

TO PHA: Miller, Ennis, Sekera, # 16
TO BUF: Couturier, Read, # 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I hope we draft Ristolainen
If the Sabres part with Sekera, I would expect Regier to select a defenseman with one pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Why are we overpaying for Couturier when we have two players young players (Girgensons/Larrsson) who already project out to fit that exact same role. I like Courturier, but, I'd much rather go after other roles.
Fair point with one BIG caveat - Couturier has proven at the NHL level that he is that kind of 2-way player. Girgensons and Larsson are predicted to be such. It's a case of trading for the known. If the Sabres' two prospects become that kind of player as well, all the better. It's not like teams in today's NHL can't use more 2-way players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
And Sekera fills ZERO needs in Philly. They have 6 d-men under contract for 3 million+ (7 if you include Pronger)
Timmonen is over 40 and probably entering his last season. Meszaros is rumored to be available if the Flyers can dupe someone to take him on. Other than Coburn, the rest of their defense corps is hardly impressive or reliable. Sekera could easily be their # 3 this season if Coburn stays. The Flyers' defense corps also isn't terribly mobile - which Sekera would help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
If anything we should be getting a d-man back for Miller, not sending a d-man to Philly with Miller to get 2 more forwards (which we already have a glut of)
Don't mistake quantity for quality.

Sabretip is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.