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De-Smurfing our Squad

View Poll Results: Who would you put on the block this summer.
Plekanec 5 2.51%
Gallagher 2 1.01%
Gionta 65 32.66%
Desharnais 127 63.82%
Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-25-2013, 06:37 PM
  #51
habdynasty
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Monctonscout
He must be a Leaf, Bruin, Sen, or Sabre fan, no Hab fan would cast that vote.

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Old
06-25-2013, 06:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
DD being a legit 3rd line center would actually be an improvement over what many consider to be his true role, that is, AHL 2nd line center.
Ugh, DD had a bad year but stuff like this is ridiculous.

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06-25-2013, 06:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Everybody cheats on size, so it essentially washes out.

Look around the league you'll find suprisingly few top six centermen are significantly bigger than Pleks. Most are 5'10" to 6'1" and 180-205 llbs. And its isn't common for many teams to have two guys significantly bigger than average. For example, nobody in the Habs new division 8 team divison (DET, BOS, TOR, BUF, OTT, FLR, TB) does. The only particularly large top centers in those teams is Spezza and Lecavilier. At center a good fraction of the 6'0", 6'1" guys are below 195 llbs.

Habs03 has the right idea. The main place the Habs can actually improve is getting better defensive D men who can help the goaltending out. Which is one place you can add size and really make a difference. Hence my unrelenting hostility to having Boullion on the team.
Agree on the D, but this is focused on the forward corps, where in October we potentially have four out of our top six being 5'10 or less.

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06-25-2013, 06:40 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Agree on the D, but this is focused on the forward corps, where in October we potentially have four out of our top six being 5'10 or less.
Plekanec is 5'11, not 5'10.

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06-25-2013, 06:40 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
It is time for us to part ways with Plekanec.
Empty statements like this are useless unless you have a concrete reason behind it. Please give a logical reason why it's time to "Part ways". Plekanec remains our best C in terms of production, two-way play, special teams and attitude. When was the last time Plekanec was injured? When was the last time he coasted through a game? He would be one of the top #2 centers on any team in the league. Whether or not you see it, Plekanec carries a lot of value.

The one and only reason we would trade him would be for the possibility of better value in return. "Possibility" being an elite prospect like a top 1st-round pick. If we'd trade him in an apples-for-apples move for an equivalent player, we'd end up creating a hole as big as the one we fill, with a new guy who may or may not fit.

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06-25-2013, 06:43 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Everybody cheats on size, so it essentially washes out.

Look around the league you'll find suprisingly few top six centermen are significantly bigger than Pleks. Most are 5'10" to 6'1" and 180-205 llbs. And its isn't common for many teams to have two guys significantly bigger than average. For example, nobody in the Habs new division 8 team divison (DET, BOS, TOR, BUF, OTT, FLR, TB) does. The only particularly large top centers in those teams is Spezza and Lecavilier. At center a good fraction of the 6'0", 6'1" guys are below 195 llbs.

Habs03 has the right idea. The main place the Habs can actually improve is getting better defensive D men who can help the goaltending out. Which is one place you can add size and really make a difference. Hence my unrelenting hostility to having Boullion on the team.
We're adding Tinordi so that's one piece. If we add a strong veteran shutdown guy I'll be a lot happier. Not only do we play on the perimeter on offense, we do it on D as well. Nobody is afraid to stand in front of our crease because nobody will do anything about it.

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06-25-2013, 06:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Agree on the D, but this is focused on the forward corps, where in October we potentially have four out of our top six being 5'10 or less.
That literally can't happen because there isn't 4 sub 5'10 forwards in the lineup. Unless you're counting Dumont.

In any event, I think of Desharnais as part of the top nine, not the top six, with the top two centers being Plekanec and Eller. So what we are really talking about is three short players in the top nine, which is a bit different than what you're saying.

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06-25-2013, 06:48 PM
  #58
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Does anyone remember what happened when Plekanec was hurt this year? The other Cs were not able to take on the tough matchups and the team looked bad until he got back. If Plekanec goes they need someone to pick up the defensive coverage. A good two way C who can play against tough opponents and score is way more useful than a scoring center, even a big scoring center, who doesn't play the same defense. Look at the guys on the cup teams, Richards, Toews, Bergeron... You need guys like that. Plekanec may not be top 5 in the league in those terms, but he's probably top 10 and the habs need him.

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06-25-2013, 06:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We're adding Tinordi so that's one piece. If we add a strong veteran shutdown guy I'll be a lot happier. Not only do we play on the perimeter on offense, we do it on D as well. Nobody is afraid to stand in front of our crease because nobody will do anything about it.
You're overstating how much they play on the perimeter on offense. When this team scores, and they scored a lot, it was from right in front of the net.

The guys who scored from the perimeter was Pacioretty and Plekanec. And Pacioretty also scored at a good clip from in close (about 1 for every 6 games, which was the same as the year before).

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06-25-2013, 06:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Agree on the D, but this is focused on the forward corps, where in October we potentially have four out of our top six being 5'10 or less.
Eller, Galchenuyk, Bourque and Patches are all over 5'10... so how do you come to that conclusion ?

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06-25-2013, 06:50 PM
  #61
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Desharnais is the worst and physically weakest of the 4, Gionta is the one most likely to get worse in the next year or so and the one whose cap space can be most readily "upgraded".

Gallagher is the cheapest, toughest and the one whose value is most likely to only increase. Plekanec isn't that small and is the hardest to adequately replace.

This team should not have as many under 6' players as it does - if anything the defense is even more undersized, but it's not something you rush just because you are insecure about being called smurfs. The obsession with trading Plekanec for instance just to make a big move continues to baffle me. And no, I'm not saying Plekanec is untouchable, but I have not seen a Plek trade here rececently that's both possible and beneficial.

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06-25-2013, 06:54 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Won't even vote on this.

-Pleck is far from being a 'smurf'
-Gionta is the captain and has a NTC
-Desharnais has yet to recieve a paycheck from his extension
-Gallagher is not going anywhere

The only long shot is Gionta, but he would have to waive his NTC. I don't know, maybe if we are out of playoff contention it could happen at the trade deadline.
Agreed.

Depending on the UFA that MB will be able to hire, we will see how it works.
By February, we will know better.
We do have an offense that can score. Our defense needs some improvement but we do have good d-men in the pipeline.

Price and Desharnais both had bad season but for less than 900K DD was very good.
Let's see how it goes next season.
Eller and Galchenyuk are going to get more PP time and Gallagher is already getting some.

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06-25-2013, 06:57 PM
  #63
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Whoever didn't choose Desharnais is biased

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06-25-2013, 06:59 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
That literally can't happen because there isn't 4 sub 5'10 forwards in the lineup...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Eller, Galchenuyk, Bourque and Patches are all over 5'10... so how do you come to that conclusion ?
I have no crystal ball but as SnapVirus suggested in another thread, without any moves it's not impossible we start the season with:

Pacioretty - DD - Gallagher
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta

Galchenyuk - Eller - Prust
Moen - White - ___

Notwithstanding the questionable Plekanec inch that's four of our top six at about 5'10 or less. Plus all four will likely get PP time, and IMHO it's not a given that size isn't so important at five-on-four.

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06-25-2013, 06:59 PM
  #65
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I would keep them all on the team for next season, and I would trade DD and possibly Pleks if they don't improve next year. I would let Gio walk when his contract is up next year. Gallagher would be the only one I would keep long term.

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06-25-2013, 07:03 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I have no crystal ball but as SnapVirus suggested in another thread, without any moves it's not impossible we start the season with:

Pacioretty - DD - Gallagher
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta

Galchenyuk - Eller - Prust
Moen - White - ___

Notwithstanding the questionable Plekanec inch that's four of our top six at about 5'10 or less. Plus all four will likely get PP time, and IMHO it's not a given that size isn't so important at five-on-four.
we'll start with Eller, both kids, Patches, Plekanec and Bourque on our top 6... reasonning ? well' it's not impossible...

gotta put more thoughts into it...

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06-25-2013, 07:03 PM
  #67
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Awards:
Gionta - He has one year left and a NTC.
Plekanec - Who do you replace him with because you'll NEED to have someone that can log the minutes he does, play the PP and PK like he does and be as effective.
Gallagher - His name on this list is ridiculous.

Desharnais is the right answer. Out of all three (I'm not counting Gallagher), he has the worst contract and is the most ineffective. It's a no brainer, really.

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06-25-2013, 07:05 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
I would keep them all on the team for next season, and I would trade DD and possibly Pleks if they don't improve next year. I would let Gio walk when his contract is up next year. Gallagher would be the only one I would keep long term.
why would Plekanec need to improve ? lol

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06-25-2013, 07:12 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
we'll start with Eller, both kids, Patches, Plekanec and Bourque on our top 6... reasonning ? well' it's not impossible...

gotta put more thoughts into it...
Galchenyuk - Eller - Prust looks like a great 3rd line with a low cap hit. But what do we get if we do as you suggest, do we move Gionta and DD onto the 3rd? Looks like a weak and expensive 3rd line to me. Sort of like rearranging high chairs on the Titanic Also if Gio and DD are bumped down do they still play PP minutes in your opinion? If not, how do they get more than 10-12 min per game?

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06-25-2013, 07:13 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
why would Plekanec need to improve ? lol
Not Plekanec, sorry. Meant more that DD needs to improve, even though he wasn't the bad this season.
The reason I put Pleks on the same boat as DD is with the emergence of Eller and Galchenyuk, I have a feeling that management might look to move Plekanec soon, starting in perhaps the next offseason or so (although I seriously hope not.)

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06-25-2013, 07:17 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
While Galchenyuk - Eller - Prust is a great 3rd line. But what do we get if we do as you suggest, do we move Gionta and DD onto the 3rd? Looks like a weak 3rd line to me. Sort of like rearranging high chairs on the Titanic
Eller with the two kids produced at a 2nd line pace...

Gionta has ONE year left on his contract, and the way it's been the last few years he isnt likely to play all games.

Think we can live with that...

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06-25-2013, 07:26 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Eller with the two kids produced at a 2nd line pace...

Gionta has ONE year left on his contract, and the way it's been the last few years he isnt likely to play all games.

Think we can live with that...
We can of course. I expect MB will unfold his vision for the team over the summer. Maybe, given Gallagher's emergence as a top-sixer, he doesn't want to wait for Gio's contract to expire and will ship him out. Maybe I'm getting too old for another five-year plan lol.

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06-25-2013, 07:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
You're overstating how much they play on the perimeter on offense. When this team scores, and they scored a lot, it was from right in front of the net.

The guys who scored from the perimeter was Pacioretty and Plekanec. And Pacioretty also scored at a good clip from in close (about 1 for every 6 games, which was the same as the year before).
We don't have guys that stand in front of the net. Gallagher does it but there aren't many. We need to go to the net a lot more than we do.

By and large we are a perimeter team.

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06-25-2013, 07:37 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
We can of course. I expect MB will unfold his vision for the team over the summer. Maybe, given Gallagher's emergence as a top-sixer, he doesn't want to wait for Gio's contract to expire and will ship him out. Maybe I'm getting too old for another five-year plan lol.
you're just following the Habs board trend actually

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06-25-2013, 07:46 PM
  #75
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I wouldn't put anybody "on the block". That seems like it makes it too high a priority to actually move somebody. If I could find a good deal that improved the team, I'd make it. Involving any player.

But when you specifically get to the players listed... and then to the most popular candidate Desharnais... I honestly don't think I could get anything for him in a trade. Maybe a 3rd round pick in August in the unlikely combination of events that a team with cap space and a need for secondary scoring utterly failed in their UFA attempts, and failed scrounging the leftover heap, and ultimately decided they could bite the contractual bullet and settle for DD? No, nobody is going to trade anything for him, so why bother putting him "on the block"? It would feel too desperate to me. Desharnais isn't ideally suited to our current team's makeup, but he's still a pretty good player, and I wouldn't move him for little-to-no-return, not unless I had some motive to do so beyond just his size, anyway.

And the same goes for the other players, in lesser degrees. Plekanec and Gallagher are obvious keepers. Gionta is going to be UFA next year anyway.

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