HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sather Speaks: Lack of Puck Possession Had "A lot to do" with Torts' firing

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-25-2013, 06:05 AM
  #176
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC704 View Post
I was at the Florida game during my spring break. Needless to say, it was the worst coached game of Torts' entire tenure here. It was that bad. I was also at the Colorado game last season in which we outshot them 2:1 and lost because we made Varlamov look like ****ing God ..again, but at least our offense looked competent that night.

The shortened season had a huge impact on fluctuated stats. The PP/offense was bad. Torts isn't a bad coach, but his time here had come. He wasn't getting the most out of the players anymore. For every game they looked good, there would be two games in which they struggled, badly.

As for Sather, I'm glad he made the move. I'm also glad he jumped on AV when Vancouver jumped the gun on firing him. Sather has been bad here at times, but I can't blame him for the rhetoric here, even if most people know he's "old school" and has no base for it.
Old school would be Sather blaming himself for the team's shortcomings.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:49 AM
  #177
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,502
vCash: 500
People are blind if they didnt identify the massive shortcomings inherent in Torts' philosophy.

Blame Sather all you want -- how many friggin moves did the GM make to supply the coach with a team he could work with? People act like Sather sat back with the 2009 team and set Torts up for failure.

Torts had the game's best goalie, one of the game's top-3 RW, the one of best groups of young D-men in the league, at least four or five young two-way forwards with size, and one of the best playmaking centers in league. On top of that, he would actually ADD one of the game's top goal scorers.

Sather did his job. Aside from tanking like Pitt, Chicago, and Washington, what other options did he have? Draft franchise centers and Norris winners between 19th-28th overall every year? Sure. Thats a reasonable expectation.

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 11:53 AM
  #178
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
People are blind if they didnt identify the massive shortcomings inherent in Torts' philosophy.

Blame Sather all you want -- how many friggin moves did the GM make to supply the coach with a team he could work with? People act like Sather sat back with the 2009 team and set Torts up for failure.

Torts had the game's best goalie, one of the game's top-3 RW, the one of best groups of young D-men in the league, at least four or five young two-way forwards with size, and one of the best playmaking centers in league. On top of that, he would actually ADD one of the game's top goal scorers.

Sather did his job. Aside from tanking like Pitt, Chicago, and Washington, what other options did he have? Draft franchise centers and Norris winners between 19th-28th overall every year? Sure. Thats a reasonable expectation.
Who was among the top 3 RW in hockey?

He wasn't.

If making moves was the sign of a good GM the guy on the Marlins would be the greatest of all time.

Now that Sather is rid of Torts the cancer, what will be the excuse if the Rangers don't get to the Cup finals? He has outstanding personnel, per your post, so if there are no finals this year I guess that will mean that AV stinks, like all those before him under Teflon Glen.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 12:07 PM
  #179
Silence Of The Plams
Zemgod
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 18,382
vCash: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Who was among the top 3 RW in hockey?

He wasn't.

If making moves was the sign of a good GM the guy on the Marlins would be the greatest of all time.

Now that Sather is rid of Torts the cancer, what will be the excuse if the Rangers don't get to the Cup finals? He has outstanding personnel, per your post, so if there are no finals this year I guess that will mean that AV stinks, like all those before him under Teflon Glen.
I stopped reading here.

So, what you're insinuating here is that the only problem with this team is the GM?

Silence Of The Plams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 12:19 PM
  #180
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
People are blind if they didnt identify the massive shortcomings inherent in Torts' philosophy.

Blame Sather all you want -- how many friggin moves did the GM make to supply the coach with a team he could work with? People act like Sather sat back with the 2009 team and set Torts up for failure.

Torts had the game's best goalie, one of the game's top-3 RW, the one of best groups of young D-men in the league, at least four or five young two-way forwards with size, and one of the best playmaking centers in league. On top of that, he would actually ADD one of the game's top goal scorers.

Sather did his job. Aside from tanking like Pitt, Chicago, and Washington, what other options did he have? Draft franchise centers and Norris winners between 19th-28th overall every year? Sure. Thats a reasonable expectation.
Who was among the top 3 RW in hockey?

He wasn't.

If making moves was the sign of a good GM the guy on the Marlins would be the greatest of all time.

Now that Sather is rid of Torts the cancer, what will be the excuse if the Rangers don't get to the Cup finals? He has outstanding personnel, per your post, so if there are no finals this year I guess that will mean that AV stinks, like all those before him under Teflon Glen.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 12:35 PM
  #181
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
I stopped reading here.

So, what you're insinuating here is that the only problem with this team is the GM?
Well he runs all hockey operations and the Rangers have been a fringe team with the exception of one season, despite having one of the largest payrolls year in, year out. He is not the only problem, but he is the source of all problems.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 12:39 PM
  #182
Silence Of The Plams
Zemgod
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 18,382
vCash: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Well he runs all hockey operations and the Rangers have been a fringe team with the exception of one season, despite having one of the largest payrolls year in, year out. He is not the only problem, but he is the source of all problems.
But he isn't the only one. I agree that he is a monstrous one yes. But it isn't only his.

Silence Of The Plams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 01:11 PM
  #183
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
exactly! and the guy has a chance to win 2 cups in 4yrs.. i was a big advocate of torts.. and i still think he was a great coach.. and deserved another year..


guy is a good coach, anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy..

i just hate how in professional sports, the players dictate every move.. players wanted torts out so they fired his ass.. these guys get paid amazing money one could dream about and play a game for a living..

2 things bother me the most

- that killer instinct and wanting it more then the other team wasnt there, which is why we lost to boston

- which goes with the last part i said.. boston, chicago, pitt and LA have one thing in common...

they all have been together as a team for 2,3 even 4yrs.. you build a team, grow as a team and win as a team.. you need each one along with a desire an determination as an individual and team collectively if you want to win the cup..

2011-12 rangers had that and we flushed it down the drain..

everyone knows when a team is special and that season all of us ranger fans felt that... now we're back to square one and have to retool and build some of our team and hopefully get back to that which, i know we could be but we have to trim the fat and get that cohesiveness back..
The guy is a good short term coach for a team that has a lot of talent and their game together.
If they need a push, motivation, a kick in the pants, Torts is your man, but if it isn’t exactly straight forward
forget it. The guy shows no ability to adapt whatsoever. You win/lose his way. His “system” is outdated and predictable.
Resiliency alone will not win you a SC.

The players did not fire his @ss... The GM did. If the GM picked up on the fact that his system and personality was wearing
thin... good. time for a change. 5 yrs of his BS is enough!

Boston wanted it more and were better than us, at everything.

I agree with your points about a team and coming together/staying together.
the 2011-12 team did not “have it”. We had no powerplay, and more importantly, at ES we couldn’t score.
Our style was wearing us down. we looked ridiculous some nights collapsing in our own end for minutes at a time.

You have to make the Nash deal, even at the expense of 4m+ 1g scoring players like Dubinsky and 3C like AA.

We didn’t have to lose Prust, and Feds, or even Mitchell. Prust meant too much to this team, but again, too much heavy
lifting by a guy who couldn’t score.

I think we’re going to surprise a lot of people about how good a team the NYR really are next year...

NikC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 01:25 PM
  #184
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 6,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
People are blind if they didnt identify the massive shortcomings inherent in Torts' philosophy.

Blame Sather all you want -- how many friggin moves did the GM make to supply the coach with a team he could work with? People act like Sather sat back with the 2009 team and set Torts up for failure.

Torts had the game's best goalie, one of the game's top-3 RW, the one of best groups of young D-men in the league, at least four or five young two-way forwards with size, and one of the best playmaking centers in league. On top of that, he would actually ADD one of the game's top goal scorers.

Sather did his job. Aside from tanking like Pitt, Chicago, and Washington, what other options did he have? Draft franchise centers and Norris winners between 19th-28th overall every year? Sure. Thats a reasonable expectation.
How is making a ton of moves to a team that just had the best season in decades doing them any favors? Sather dismantled the best NYR team in years. The Nash trade was arguably a must-take deal, but the rest of the guys didn't need to be sent packing. On their own, they weren't much, but together, they were a solid, solid bottom 6, which was what last year's team was lacking.

Richards is not one of the best playmaking centers int he game, nor is Gabby a top 3 RW. They were at some points in the past maybe, but you don't get to stick with the label you got at your peak forever, you have to continually earn it.

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 01:39 PM
  #185
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
I stopped reading here.

So, what you're insinuating here is that the only problem with this team is the GM?
He is by far the biggest problem. I am not insinuating it. I am unabashedly saying it.

Do you think all of the coaches were the problem? Who hired them?

Is it poor personnel? Who brought them here?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 01:48 PM
  #186
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
But he isn't the only one. I agree that he is a monstrous one yes. But it isn't only his.
Who else is the problem though? I can guarantee that problem was created from Glen Sather's grimy fingers.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #187
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Who was among the top 3 RW in hockey?
Gaborik was the highest scoring RW in the league in 2011-2012. If you want to argue about where that makes him rank compared to the rest of the right wings in the NHL when you take defense and other things into account, that's fine, but at the very least it's easy to say that Gaborik was the best goal scoring RW in the NHL

Levitate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 03:19 PM
  #188
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
The guy is a good short term coach for a team that has a lot of talent and their game together.
If they need a push, motivation, a kick in the pants, Torts is your man, but if it isn’t exactly straight forward
forget it. The guy shows no ability to adapt whatsoever. You win/lose his way. His “system” is outdated and predictable.
Resiliency alone will not win you a SC.

The players did not fire his @ss... The GM did. If the GM picked up on the fact that his system and personality was wearing
thin... good. time for a change. 5 yrs of his BS is enough!


Boston wanted it more and were better than us, at everything.

I agree with your points about a team and coming together/staying together.
the 2011-12 team did not “have it”. We had no powerplay, and more importantly, at ES we couldn’t score.
Our style was wearing us down. we looked ridiculous some nights collapsing in our own end for minutes at a time.

You have to make the Nash deal, even at the expense of 4m+ 1g scoring players like Dubinsky and 3C like AA.

We didn’t have to lose Prust, and Feds, or even Mitchell. Prust meant too much to this team, but again, too much heavy
lifting by a guy who couldn’t score.

I think we’re going to surprise a lot of people about how good a team the NYR really are next year...
So the GM didn't realize this until a few months after he gave his coach a multi year extension? lol

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 04:39 PM
  #189
Oak
Hockey fan
 
Oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Gaborik was the highest scoring RW in the league in 2011-2012. If you want to argue about where that makes him rank compared to the rest of the right wings in the NHL when you take defense and other things into account, that's fine, but at the very least it's easy to say that Gaborik was the best goal scoring RW in the NHL
I wonder if he would consider coming back now that Torts is gone. Shame we lost him.

Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:03 PM
  #190
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 6,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardacus View Post
I wonder if he would consider coming back now that Torts is gone. Shame we lost him.
I sure hope not. His peak has come and gone. Doesn't look at all like the same player he used to be.

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:05 PM
  #191
NikC
Registered User
 
NikC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 3,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
So the GM didn't realize this until a few months after he gave his coach a multi year extension? lol
I think he realized it, along with the staff around. I'm not saying the players weren't a factor to an degree. I think its a good thing. I think Sather saw the way they played even last year when we had some success that its not sustainable

Sather couldn't fire him after last season, not at the start of a short season...
Not much u could do in the middle of a short season either....

He took advantage of the timing and availability of coaches at the end of the season

NikC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 06:46 PM
  #192
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardacus View Post
I wonder if he would consider coming back now that Torts is gone. Shame we lost him.
I thought you said he was a joke of a player and quitter?

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:03 PM
  #193
EvilCorporateLawyer
Very slippery slope
 
EvilCorporateLawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 75,166
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to EvilCorporateLawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
He is by far the biggest problem. I am not insinuating it. I am unabashedly saying it.

Do you think all of the coaches were the problem? Who hired them?

Is it poor personnel? Who brought them here?
This.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
EvilCorporateLawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:42 PM
  #194
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Either/or. Either/or. Either/or.

Sather screwed up a good thing.
Tortorella didn't do his job well enough.

Neither are false. Both are true. This is still the case however many weeks later. Don't you guys get tired of posting the same things back and forth?

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:55 PM
  #195
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Either/or. Either/or. Either/or.

Sather screwed up a good thing.
Tortorella didn't do his job well enough.

Neither are false. Both are true. This is still the case however many weeks later. Don't you guys get tired of posting the same things back and forth?
Lol, no kidding. Obviously anyone who thinks Torts could have done a better job MUST that Sather did a good job, and MUST think that the roster is fine.

Can we stop arguing about it already? Torts is gone. AV is here. End of story.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:56 PM
  #196
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Either/or. Either/or. Either/or.

Sather screwed up a good thing.
Tortorella didn't do his job well enough.

Neither are false. Both are true. This is still the case however many weeks later. Don't you guys get tired of posting the same things back and forth?
Well what else can you do when virtually no one attacks the players themselves?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 07:59 PM
  #197
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well what else can you do when virtually no one attacks the players themselves?
Rick Nash, Derek Stepan and Danny Girardi are three guys I think deserve a ton of criticism for their play in the 2nd round. Mostly in the first round, too, for Nash and Stepan. The rest, whatever. McDonagh was fine. Stralman was fine. DZ was playing with a hernia. Eminger has limited capabilities. Richards is aging fast, which isn't his fault. Callahan and Hagelin were playing hurt. Brassard was great. Who else is on the team worth even mentioning?

It's easy to absolve the players of everything, though, when they're playing a system that isn't suited to their roster and they aren't given enough roster help besides.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 08:07 PM
  #198
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Rick Nash, Derek Stepan and Danny Girardi are three guys I think deserve a ton of criticism for their play in the 2nd round. Mostly in the first round, too, for Nash and Stepan. The rest, whatever. McDonagh was fine. Stralman was fine. DZ was playing with a hernia. Eminger has limited capabilities. Richards is aging fast, which isn't his fault. Callahan and Hagelin were playing hurt. Brassard was great. Who else is on the team worth even mentioning?

It's easy to absolve the players of everything, though, when they're playing a system that isn't suited to their roster and they aren't given enough roster help besides.
The fact theres no one else worth mentioning is Sather's fault

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 08:11 PM
  #199
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The fact theres no one else worth mentioning is Sather's fault
No disagreement there at all.

I was frustrated by the Nash trade and subsequent breakup of our depth group. There's a phrase I always use to describe Sather's mindset. It was a complete misunderstanding of what made the team successful in the first place. He didn't understand his own team. Just like it seems he had no idea what was going on with his own team during the season.

None of that absolves Tortorella's awful coaching performance this year.

Quite honestly, it's pretty amazing that despite both of those things, we still made it to the 2nd round.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2013, 08:19 PM
  #200
NYR2007
Registered User
 
NYR2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
So the GM didn't realize this until a few months after he gave his coach a multi year extension? lol
this happens all the time. Tell me the last time a coach didn't get " resigned " to a contract... they always get fired with years left on their contact



This isn't comparable to a players contract

NYR2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.