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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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06-25-2013, 08:31 PM
  #551
Mentallydull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EE AY HOCKEY CONNECT View Post
That is your opinion bro.

When you see how much Weiss gets, gagners contract will look better. If the rumors are true and the nhl is going to be making a billion dollars more per year in HRR within the next 3 years, gagners contract is gonna be looking pretty good.
Well, that's pretty much all we have - opinions

Time will tell but I'm wary of paying a one-dimensional 45ish point player 5+ mil.

To put that in a little more perspective, here are some other guys with reasonably similar point totals from the 11-12 season (I'm not including this season since I don't agree with paying someone a long term, high figure contract based off of ONE season - look at how Horcoff turned out):

Kyle Brodziak
Petr Sykora
Ryan Smyth
Nick Foligno
Kyle Wellwood
Frans Nielsen
Matt Read
Steve Sullivan
Wayne Simmonds
Jakub Voracek
Ryan Kesler
Alex Tanguay
Curtis Glencross
Ryan Malone

How many of those players would you honestly pay $5 million for right now?


Last edited by Mentallydull: 06-25-2013 at 08:37 PM. Reason: Included more names since I know I'll be accused of cherry-picking
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06-25-2013, 08:33 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by EE AY HOCKEY CONNECT View Post
That is your opinion bro.

When you see how much Weiss gets, gagners contract will look better. If the rumors are true and the nhl is going to be making a billion dollars more per year in HRR within the next 3 years, gagners contract is gonna be looking pretty good.
I'm also not sure why you're bringing Weiss up?

Weiss puts up more points, hits more, and is better on the dot than Gagner with worse teammates. Gagner should get a good chunk less than Weiss.

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06-25-2013, 09:06 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
Well, that's pretty much all we have - opinions

Time will tell but I'm wary of paying a one-dimensional 45ish point player 5+ mil.

To put that in a little more perspective, here are some other guys with reasonably similar point totals from the 11-12 season (I'm not including this season since I don't agree with paying someone a long term, high figure contract based off of ONE season - look at how Horcoff turned out):

Kyle Brodziak
Petr Sykora
Ryan Smyth
Nick Foligno
Kyle Wellwood
Frans Nielsen
Matt Read
Steve Sullivan
Wayne Simmonds
Jakub Voracek
Ryan Kesler
Alex Tanguay
Curtis Glencross
Ryan Malone

How many of those players would you honestly pay $5 million for right now?
Of course you don't want to count this season. Gagner had a career season.

Also the season you would rather use 2011-2012 is one of the few seasons that Gagner didn't seem to develop. (He was still a +5 on a terrible oilers team.

On the open market Gagner gets 5.5 +

I don't know why you mentioned all those random players. I don't get your point.

Very few of those players are as young or good as Gagner.

By all accounts he has great fitness, great team player, lots of skill and all of his many coaches seemed to really like him. He loves Edmonton and works hard. Those are the players we need.

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06-25-2013, 09:10 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
The guy doesnt deserve more than Voracek who is as developed and is at the moment a better producer. 4.25M x 3 more yrs.. Kulikov same draft is making 2.5Mx 2 more yrs.
JVR also 4.25x 5 more yrs.. Turris @ 3.5M x 5 more yrs

From this it looks like ~4.25M is what he deserves... Anything on top of it would be loyalty bonus.
Pretty much this.

It's a joke that Gagner is apparently demanding $5 mil/yr especially when looking at these comparables. I would actually take the aforementioned guys ahead of Gagner, more versatile players.
Tavares makes $5.5 mil/yr just to put things in perspective here.

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06-25-2013, 09:11 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Mentallydull View Post
I'm also not sure why you're bringing Weiss up?

Weiss puts up more points, hits more, and is better on the dot than Gagner with worse teammates. Gagner should get a good chunk less than Weiss.
Gagner is miles younger than Weiss and you are wrong, he does not put up more points. In fact I believe that gags might even have a higher career PPG.

Gagner is considerably better than Weiss was at his age, arguably even better now.

He already had chemistry with hall an ebs. We don't have anyone Better for that role. If we get an actual 2nd line C as a replacement then sure whatever. (Not Bozak, that is jus ridiculous. Might as well just keep horcoff.)

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06-25-2013, 09:22 PM
  #556
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I have a bad feeling about this contract coming up. Gagner has signed short term deals for the last few years and he's going to look for a big deal this time around. He isn't worth anything more than 4M until he develops his game outside of putting up points. For a player his size already on a small team, who had his career year in a shortened/contract year (where his production dropped significantly in the last 10 games of the season), and still hasn't developed his faceoffs or his defensive game.. I feel he is going to get overpaid.

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06-25-2013, 09:53 PM
  #557
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Does anyone know who is responsible for negotiating player contracts on the Oilers end? I thought I read somewhere that is was Howson that was in charge of this when he was the assistant for klowe in the past. As I recall a number of brutal contracts were signed under his watch as well as in Columbus. If he is in fact responsible I don't have a lot of confidence Gagner will be making much less then 5mil per.

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06-25-2013, 10:00 PM
  #558
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I am really not sure where people are getting the idea that a 23 year old player named Gagner, that can become a UFA in one year is only going to get a 4 million dollar a year deal long term? Wishful thinking?

Maybe a one year deal but that is pushing it.

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06-25-2013, 10:10 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I am really not sure where people are getting the idea that a 23 year old player that can become a UFA in one year is only going to get a 4 million dollar a year deal long term? Wishful thinking?

Maybe a one year deal but that is pushing it.
Exactly, he holds all the cards. The kid is coming off his second bridge contract, and i doubt that he is feeling generous after that. I have accepted the fact that he will likely get between 5 and 5.5 per. If he takes less than this we should be very happy.

1 year from now i bet he finds 6 mill per year, or more as a UFA. He's not stupid.

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06-25-2013, 10:11 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I am really not sure where people are getting the idea that a 23 year old player named Gagner, that can become a UFA in one year is only going to get a 4 million dollar a year deal long term? Wishful thinking?

Maybe a one year deal but that is pushing it.
The scariest part is that a lot of the people that wouldn't give him more than 4M 1Year deal are the same people that would sign freaking Bozak for 5+ Long Term. Un****ingbelievable

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06-25-2013, 10:15 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Karsa Orlong View Post
Exactly, he holds all the cards. The kid is coming off his second bridge contract, and i doubt that he is feeling generous after that. I have accepted the fact that he will likely get between 5 and 5.5 per. If he takes less than this we should be very happy.

1 year from now i bet he finds 6 mill per year, or more as a UFA. He's not stupid.
The hate that goes on for Sam is outright crazy.

No he is not the perfect 2nd line C. He is however a extremely talented top 6 forward that still has good potential. Signing him long term makes sense.

Unless someone can actually suggest a replacement that is better and available?

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06-25-2013, 10:32 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Karsa Orlong View Post
Exactly, he holds all the cards. The kid is coming off his second bridge contract, and i doubt that he is feeling generous after that. I have accepted the fact that he will likely get between 5 and 5.5 per. If he takes less than this we should be very happy.

1 year from now i bet he finds 6 mill per year, or more as a UFA. He's not stupid.
Yep, his negotiating position is quite strong. Oilers probably dumping 2 other centres, #1 centre is in rehab, the farm is empty, the UFA class is not that good, going to arbitration robs the Oilers of any powers since he only has 1 year left, had a good year.

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06-25-2013, 10:38 PM
  #563
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Yep, his negotiating position is quite strong. Oilers probably dumping 2 other centres, #1 centre is in rehab, the farm is empty, the UFA class is not that good, going to arbitration robs the Oilers of any powers since he only has 1 year left, had a good year.
This and a lot more of this.

If you're Gagner's agent, you extort this team for all you got.

The GM comes out and says they're moving Horcoff. Belanger is almost always assumed to be out the door. Sure, you've got a 7th overall coming in, but really, when the GM says you're part of the core, you're going to want to be part of the core.

So you're not Eberle and Hall. But you can almost get them to write you a blank cheque, unless they want to play Lander at #2C, or god forbid, Ryan Smyth.

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06-25-2013, 11:04 PM
  #564
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MacT's not using a buyout on Horcoff, and I imagine he won't be traded if a center isn't part of the deal coming back. So maybe there's a little leverage back on MacT's side.

This whole "Player X holds all the cards" bullshat has to stop. Trade him for a slightly lesser perceived return, see how much someother GM will spend on him. I'm sure $5M gets us someone a lot more useful and underrated who is itching to leave his coach's doghouse and excel with some talented wingers.

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06-25-2013, 11:25 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by mactforcoach View Post
I've never really understood some of the hate on here for Gagner. He's done nothing but play his heart out for the Oilers since being put into service at too young an age.
He never complains, always speaks to the media and gives his all every night. At 23 years old we are just seeing the beginning of his best years yet so many want to dump him for this, that, and anything in between. I'm all for signing him long term and look forward to his continued development
I don't know why anyone on here would hate Gagner he is a very likeable guy, he's very mature and professional for his young age, and he has a pair of brass balls considering some of the fights he's picked over the years. Still in saying that he has clear limitations in his level of play and has shown an inability to correct/overcome many of his deficiencies to this point, I think and anticipate he will soon be overpayed for his services, just like many on here do and it is cause for concern, the league can't continually give GM's get out of jail free compliance buyout cards some measure of frugality needs to be undertaken. Under the assumption Gagner will continue to improve at the pace he has shown to this point the fair number on a long term deal is $4.5 million, assuming improvement is always a risky business which is why I would prefer $4.25 million, but I am still definitely comfortable with $4.5 million. We are headed into a year with a shrinking cap and while I anticipate it going higher again it's not a certainty at this point and find it hard to justify giving him much more based on his level of play, especially when looking at current contracts of undersized centers who play a more complete game than Gagner. If Gagner falls back to his sub 50 point level and doesn't drastically improve his defensive game, I would consider him near untradeable, most teams don't want to commit that kind of cap room to an under-sized player making that kind of coin for that level of production.

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06-25-2013, 11:38 PM
  #566
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I'm not sure if I understand all these Gagner proposals when MacTavish is so adament in signing him to a long-term extension.

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06-25-2013, 11:41 PM
  #567
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Gagner is bad at the two most important parts of being a center. He sucks at faceoffs and he is mediocre defensively. He doesn't deserve a big pay day.

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06-25-2013, 11:46 PM
  #568
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I have no idea why Gagner is in all of these deals, we need him a lot more than you guys think. He's only 23 years old and getting better every year (not necessarily points, but watch him play). He was lightning fast at the start of last season but I think a lot of people suffered from the lockout. Looks like he's training hard this offseason and I would expect him to be extremely fast once again buy the start of next season. He fights more than anyone else on our team and puts up points, what more can you ask for?

Let me reiterate that he's only 23 years old. Let's just be the highest bidders on Peverley instead, that way we simply improve instead of losing Gagner and gaining some other center.

If we want a defenceman we have lots of pieces I'd rather be giving up.

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06-25-2013, 11:47 PM
  #569
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I'd hesitate at giving him 5 million a year on a long term contract and I'm a fan.

3 or 4 years at 4.3-4.7 million is what I'd hope gets done.


Last edited by Eytinge: 06-25-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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06-25-2013, 11:47 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I am really not sure where people are getting the idea that a 23 year old player named Gagner, that can become a UFA in one year is only going to get a 4 million dollar a year deal long term? Wishful thinking?

Maybe a one year deal but that is pushing it.
4M is not 'only' .. It is big money...
Voracek and JVR are making 4.25M .. Tavares 5.5M
Gagner at 4M as a RFA isnt bargain .. it is pretty much par..

I dont know how we can justify keeping both RNH and Gagner on the roster considering neither is physical or good on the dot. The people proposing handing out 5M+ to Gagner better be prepared to lose RNH down the road.

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06-25-2013, 11:53 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
4M is not 'only' .. It is big money...
Voracek and JVR are making 4.25M .. Tavares 5.5M
Gagner at 4M as a RFA isnt bargain .. it is pretty much par..

I dont know how we can justify keeping both RNH and Gagner on the roster considering neither is physical or good on the dot. The people proposing handing out 5M+ to Gagner better be prepared to lose RNH down the road.
Exactly, 4.5 is already pretty ridiculous. I don't see an improvement that warrants that much more than the 3.2 he was making. It doesn't make sense to overpay because he's been here a while.

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06-25-2013, 11:55 PM
  #572
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I have no idea why Gagner is in all of these deals, we need him a lot more than you guys think. He's only 23 years old and getting better every year (not necessarily points, but watch him play). He was lightning fast at the start of last season but I think a lot of people suffered from the lockout. Looks like he's training hard this offseason and I would expect him to be extremely fast once again buy the start of next season. He fights more than anyone else on our team and puts up points, what more can you ask for?

Let me reiterate that he's only 23 years old. Let's just be the highest bidders on Peverley instead, that way we simply improve instead of losing Gagner and gaining some other center.

If we want a defenceman we have lots of pieces I'd rather be giving up.
went from a +5 to -6... got worse on the dot as well... scored and hit a lot more but unless we make him our offensive C and mold RNH into a defense 1st C he isnt going to fit in with our system as a C.

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06-25-2013, 11:56 PM
  #573
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I have no idea why Gagner is in all of these deals, we need him a lot more than you guys think. He's only 23 years old and getting better every year (not necessarily points, but watch him play). He was lightning fast at the start of last season but I think a lot of people suffered from the lockout. Looks like he's training hard this offseason and I would expect him to be extremely fast once again buy the start of next season. He fights more than anyone else on our team and puts up points, what more can you ask for?

Let me reiterate that he's only 23 years old. Let's just be the highest bidders on Peverley instead, that way we simply improve instead of losing Gagner and gaining some other center.

If we want a defenceman we have lots of pieces I'd rather be giving up.
I want a centre in my top 6 that can play against other teams top lines, be tough to play against, win faceoffs and play good defense.

Who goes up against the likes of Toews, Bergeron, Getzlaf, kopitar, Sedin, Kesler, Datsyuk, zetterberg, etc when it comes playoff time and you get away with anything?

If this team ever actually makes the playoffs we are going to get destroyed down the middle. We will be lucky to win a game let alone 16 of them.

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06-25-2013, 11:59 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
4M is not 'only' .. It is big money...
Voracek and JVR are making 4.25M .. Tavares 5.5M
Gagner at 4M as a RFA isnt bargain .. it is pretty much par..

I dont know how we can justify keeping both RNH and Gagner on the roster considering neither is physical or good on the dot. The people proposing handing out 5M+ to Gagner better be prepared to lose RNH down the road.
Come on. So rather than lose 1M elsewhere on the roster, they're going to trade Nuge? I find that tough to believe. Hell they could even retain 1M so Gagner's salary is the 4M you deem ok and then trade him. The Nuge is going nowhere. Signing Gagner to a slight overpayment isn't going to be the end of the world and require the selling off of our best players.

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06-26-2013, 12:00 AM
  #575
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I want a centre in my top 6 that can play against other teams top lines, be tough to play against, win faceoffs and play good defense.

Who goes up against the likes of Toews, Bergeron, Getzlaf, kopitar, Sedin, Kesler, Datsyuk, zetterberg, etc when it comes playoff time and you get away with anything?

If this team ever actually makes the playoffs we are going to get destroyed down the middle. We will be lucky to win a game let alone 16 of them.
So you are saying you don't like RNH?

Because those are first line centers, and Gagner is the team's second line center going forward.

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