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Old
06-25-2013, 01:26 PM
  #1051
Thrice
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
If Carter is at even 2/3 the goal pace in 13/14 that he was this past year, he's a lock for Team Canada.

Look at the way they built their team in 2010 - a lot of established familiarity. Crosby-Iginla will still likely be on their first line, Stamkos will be on the second, and then you'll have Getzlaf-Perry and likely Richards-Carter in the bottom six.
Canada has so much Center depth. I highly doubt Mike Richards makes the team.

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:48 PM
  #1052
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I'm I the only one that see frattin playing on the first line with kopitar and williams? Reading what leaf fans are saying hes a shoot first type of player not to expect alot of assists so I'm thinking he would work best with kopitar.

frattin kopitar williams
brown richards carter
clifford stoll toffolli
andreoff lewis king

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Old
06-25-2013, 02:31 PM
  #1053
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Canada has so much Center depth. I highly doubt Mike Richards makes the team.
Wouldn't be so sure about that. It was the sandpaper guys like Richards and Toews that really got Canada back into their game in 2010. If Richards has reasonable production next year I definitely feel he'll have a spot on their fourth line. Iginla can still play a valuable role on the team, as well. He's a veteran guy who had been there before. As long as he hasn't completely fallen off the map, he'll get a long hard look. Really wouldn't surprise me to see the following forward corps on Team Canada next year:

Nash-Crosby-Iginla
Hall-Toews-Stamkos
Duchene-Getzlaf-Perry
Eberle-Richards-Carter

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Old
06-25-2013, 03:10 PM
  #1054
Moses Doughty
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Which is why he's going to be the 3rd line center. It's unlikely that he won't be. If you're making lines, until something actually changes, work around Kopitar/Richards/Stoll as the top 3 centers.

But scoring and winning come playoff time can be fickle. Patrick Kane had 1 goal in 13 playoff games between 2011 and 2012. He tripled that production in Game 5 alone against the Kings this year.

You just don't know what will happen. King had 4 goals in 5 games against Phoenix last year. Kane had 0 goals in 6 games against the same Coyote team last year. Maybe Stoll has a crazy playoff next year. Maybe he doesn't.
You can't just assume Stoll just because there have not been moves yet. Or else you never picture what can be. You have to test and see what you can create with the roster, including dealing a Stoll type.

Who knows with King. He may be able to rebound and become a random playoff performer or more like this year where he didn't do as much. I expect somewhere in between. It's alot easier for a guy like King to get chances than Kane when a defensive minded team is super committed to shutting you(Kane) down because you're the star scorer. And he still contributed points, but it was his worst postseason in his career. He's around PPG other years.

Stoll hasn't proved he can put up a crazy playoff. His best playoff was 3 assists in 5 games against San Jose but he was given first line minutes. Otherwise? Nothing good.

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06-25-2013, 03:12 PM
  #1055
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
You can't just assume Stoll just because there have not been moves yet. Or else you never picture what can be. You have to test and see what you can create with the roster, including dealing a Stoll type.

Who knows with King. He may be able to rebound and become a random playoff performer or more like this year where he didn't do as much. I expect somewhere in between. It's alot easier for a guy like King to get chances than Kane when a defensive minded team is super committed to shutting you(Kane) down because you're the star scorer. And he still contributed points, but it was his worst postseason in his career. He's around PPG other years.

Stoll hasn't proved he can put up a crazy playoff. His best playoff was 3 assists in 5 games against San Jose but he was given first line minutes. Otherwise? Nothing good.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Stoll is the first bigger contract that I'd move if we run into serious salary cap issues. I understand how much of you like him and what he brings to the team, but at 3.xx million he should be a bigger impact player in the playoffs. Aside from that huge faceoff win and his overtime goal in the Vancouver series, what has he done?

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Old
06-25-2013, 03:15 PM
  #1056
Moses Doughty
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Originally Posted by bmr View Post
I said it before and I'll say it again: Stoll is the first bigger contract that I'd move if we run into serious salary cap issues. I understand how much of you like him and what he brings to the team, but at 3.xx million he should be a bigger impact player in the playoffs. Aside from that huge faceoff win and his overtime goal in the Vancouver series, what has he done?
Thank you for agreeing. If Stoll were at 2 mil he could stay though

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Old
06-25-2013, 03:27 PM
  #1057
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
And sure, Chicago may have won because their big guns did better. But in no way were they not much better on the bottom 6. Their bottom 6 could produce points. Our top full time point scorer on the bottom 6 was Dwight King who had 5 points in 18 games. A 22 point pace over 82 games.
You don't use playoff scoring then project it over an 82 game schedule to make a point because that just paints a ridiculous picture.

As an example, Brown had 4 points in 18 games so he's on pace to have a whopping 18 points in 82 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
You are right, the Kings do need Brown and Kopitar to return, obviously. But even if they do return, no one is winning a championship with zero offense from the bottom six, and that is what LA has with Stoll, King, Lewis, Clifford, Fraser and Nolan.

Our bottom six is a glaring glaring weakness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
The Kings got some production from their bottom 6 last year, as well as their top 6. Teams that win the Cup get production from both sets at the same time. Teams that don't get simultaneous production do not. But you can't be sure year to year if it's going to happen or not.
I agree. Collectively the bottom six scoring didn't change much at all from last season when the Kings won the Cup. The decrease in scoring from some of their top offensive players, however, was massive.

Through Conference Finals in 11-12
Lewis: 1G - 5A
King: 5G - 0A
Stoll: 2G - 2A
Fraser: 0G - 1A
Nolan: 1G - 0A
Richardson: 1G - 0A
Clifford: 0G - 0A

Total: 9G - 9A = 18 Pts

Through Conference Finals in 12-13
King: 2G - 3A
Lewis: 1G - 2A
Clifford: 0G- 2A
Fraser: 0G - 2A
Stoll: 0G - 1A
Richardson: 0G - 1A
Nolan: 0G - 0A

Total: 3G - 11A = 14 Pts

That's a 4 point difference for the bottom six players.

11-12 Kopitar: 6G - 9A
11-12 Brown: 7G - 9A

Total: 13G - 18A = 31 Pts

12-13 Kopitar: 3G - 6A
12-13 Brown: 3G - 1A

Total: 6G - 7A = 13 Pts

That's a 58% decrease in production from 31 to 13 points.

You look at the other players and they didn't have nearly as steep a drop off. Some even increased their scoring and it's not even counting the bonus scoring that Toffoli provided with 2 goals and 4 assists.

11-12 Doughty: 2G - 8A
12-13 Doughty: 2G - 3A

11-12 Penner: 3G - 7A
12-13 Penner: 3G - 2A

11-12 Williams: 2G - 9A
12-13 Williams: 6G - 3A

11-12 Voynov: 1G - 2A
12-13 Voynov: 6G - 7A

11-12 Carter: 4G - 5A
12-13 Carter: 6G - 7A

11-12 Richards: 4G - 7A
12-13 Richards: 3G - 9A

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Old
06-25-2013, 03:32 PM
  #1058
Moses Doughty
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Look at the difference in the 3rd line 15 to 9. That's pretty big and also important. I'm not arguing that the big guns didn't underwhelm. But I'm saying we needed more from the bottom six.

And I used Stoll's career LA playoff stats to project. You used 1 bad playoff from Brown. He is a 50ish point player over 82 games in playoffs.

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Old
06-25-2013, 03:50 PM
  #1059
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
And I used Stoll's career LA playoff stats to project. You used 1 bad playoff from Brown. He is a 50ish point player over 82 games in playoffs.
Look at your own post that I quoted. Please show me where it says Jarret Stoll instead of Dwight King.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
Our top full time point scorer on the bottom 6 was Dwight King who had 5 points in 18 games. A 22 point pace over 82 games.
You used the numbers for Dwight King from this year's playoff run of 5 points and projected it over what it would like over 82 games. I then used Brown's points from the same playoff run and did the same thing to show that it's silly to use that particular method to prove your point.

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Old
06-25-2013, 03:58 PM
  #1060
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Lewis scored on the PP, and King had an ENG and a SH goal.

That is kind of twisting the numbers, but that means the Kings got zero ES goals from bottom 6 forwards in this years playoffs.

The Kings lost three games to Chicago by one goal, any kind of contribution could have made the difference.

Getting back to Stoll, 3 goals in 45 playoff games as a King, 27 straight games without a goal to end this season, 21 straight playoff games now without a goal.

Stoll may have a role on this team, but it needs to be strictly as a faceoff guy who plays minimal energy minutes on the fourth line, he doesn't score nearly enough to be on the third line.

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Old
06-25-2013, 04:47 PM
  #1061
Moses Doughty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
Look at your own post that I quoted. Please show me where it says Jarret Stoll instead of Dwight King.



You used the numbers for Dwight King from this year's playoff run of 5 points and projected it over what it would like over 82 games. I then used Brown's points from the same playoff run and did the same thing to show that it's silly to use that particular method to prove your point.
I could use 2012 playoffs too and make his production better, but that would show he's alot better than he actually is. Unlike Brown who slumped this postseason.

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Old
06-25-2013, 10:38 PM
  #1062
Peter James Bond
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Brown Kopitar Williams
Frattin Richards Carter
Holloway Stoll Toffolli
Clifford Andreoff Lewis
King

Regehr Doughty
Mitchell Voynov
Muzzin Greene
Ellerby

Quick
Scrivens

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Old
06-25-2013, 10:45 PM
  #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter James Bond View Post
Brown Kopitar Williams
Frattin Richards Carter
Holloway Stoll Toffolli
Clifford Andreoff Lewis
King

Regehr Doughty
Mitchell Voynov
Muzzin Greene
Ellerby

Quick
Scrivens
I admit I don't know much about Andreoff...is he ready? I also really hope you are right about Mitchell.

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Old
06-25-2013, 11:42 PM
  #1064
Thrice
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Wouldn't be so sure about that. It was the sandpaper guys like Richards and Toews that really got Canada back into their game in 2010. If Richards has reasonable production next year I definitely feel he'll have a spot on their fourth line. Iginla can still play a valuable role on the team, as well. He's a veteran guy who had been there before. As long as he hasn't completely fallen off the map, he'll get a long hard look. Really wouldn't surprise me to see the following forward corps on Team Canada next year:

Nash-Crosby-Iginla
Hall-Toews-Stamkos
Duchene-Getzlaf-Perry
Eberle-Richards-Carter

Patrice Bergeron? He's bigger, stronger, better defensively than Mike.

Eric Staal? Claude Giroux? Joe Thornton? Logan Couture? Jordan Staal?

Eberle over Hartnell, Ladd, Lucic and Jaime Benn?

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Old
06-25-2013, 11:52 PM
  #1065
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You guys also forgot Tavares, he will be there.

Bergeron will be for sure there, best defensive forward in the league. Scores huge goals

Kings Olympians next year...

Locks: Brown, Quick, Doughty, Voynov, Kopitar
Chance: Carter (will be in a battle with some guys)

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:06 AM
  #1066
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
You guys also forgot Tavares, he will be there.

Bergeron will be for sure there, best defensive forward in the league. Scores huge goals

Kings Olympians next year...

Locks: Brown, Quick, Doughty, Voynov, Kopitar
Chance: Carter (will be in a battle with some guys)
Don't forget Richards. I don't think they'll ice four lines of pure finesse and offense. They like having soldiers who will do it all on their roster and Richards is one of those players, and they need an elite level PK forward.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:13 AM
  #1067
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Don't forget Richards. I don't think they'll ice four lines of pure finesse and offense. They like having soldiers who will do it all on their roster and Richards is one of those players, and they need an elite level PK forward.
They have Toews and Bergeron for that.

I think Richards will have to play much better 5 on 5 and have a really big start to the year to make team Canada. He is in a similar spot to a guy like Patrick Sharp, would have to really play well enough to force their hand.

Canada is just really loaded with forwards, I'm not even positive Carter makes it.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:13 AM
  #1068
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Richie will need a bigger cabinet. All he does is win.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:15 AM
  #1069
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Babcock is the coach, who is the GM ?

Babcock is going to want Richards on that roster.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:17 AM
  #1070
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Dean should be the GM of Team USA, but he won't...

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:19 AM
  #1071
Herby
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Babcock is the coach, who is the GM ?

Babcock is going to want Richards on that roster.
Yzerman I believe.

Who do leave off?

Crosby
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Staal
Tavares
Bergeron
Toews

Those are just centers. Canada is insanely loaded up front, still issues in goal though.

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06-26-2013, 12:22 AM
  #1072
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Yzerman I believe.

Who do leave off?

Crosby
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Staal
Tavares
Bergeron
Toews

Those are just centers. Canada is insanely loaded up front, still issues in goal though.
They most likely are going to ask some Centers to play wing. Also some of those guys (including Richards) may get hurt before the games and decline to go.

They all have obligations to their NHL teams first. If they are banged up, I could see some elite players decline to play.

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:24 AM
  #1073
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Way over 1000 posts. Will make new thread.

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