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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-26-2013, 12:04 AM
  #976
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Aside from being Finnish, they couldn't be more different.
They both calm the speed of the game, move the puck well, see the ice well, and can skate very well.

Ristolainen also has size and strength.

Timonen is better positionally and is more agile.

I think there are more similarities than not. Don't let their size and muscle fool you. Yes, it changes the way each handles their abilities on the ice, but it doesn't change what they accomplish.

Most importantly here is that Ristolainen has that calmness when possessing the puck and guarding the backend that Timonen and Pronger both possess. They don't rush the play, but instead calmly move things along at their speed, letting the flow of the game play into them instead of chasing the play.

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06-26-2013, 12:07 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Edmonton may not take Nurse. They do like them, but there is a sense they will go with one of the centers.

I think if one of those 3 forwards are there NJ will pick them. Their beat writer did say if they have a forward and dman ranked equally they will go with a forward, but they do like the big 3 dmen.

Dallas is the real wild card here.
Yeah, NJ is in a very similar position that we were in with Couturier (even though we didn't know it at the time). NJ needs help everywhere, and I can't see them passing on Monahan or Lindholm if one of them is available. Not sure how they'd feel about Nichushkin, though.

My projection:

COL- Mackinnon
FLA- Barkov
TB- Jones
NSH- Drouin
CAR- Nurse/Risto/Zadorov
CGY- Lindholm
EDM- Monahan
BUF- Shinkaruk
NJ- Nichushkin
DAL- Wennberg


EDIT: Also, I don't think it's impossible for Drouin to fall. I could definitely see Nashville liking Monahan or Lindholm more than Drouin. Wouldn't shock me to see Drouin end up to Carolina or Calgary.


Last edited by hockeyfreak7: 06-26-2013 at 12:14 AM.
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06-26-2013, 12:12 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
They both calm the speed of the game, move the puck well, see the ice well, and can skate very well.

Ristolainen also has size and strength.

Timonen is better positionally and is more agile.
Ristolainen likes to play a physical game. Timonen is a technician who rarely plays the body.

Timonen has superior puck skills and playmaking abilities.

Ristolainen is 6'3. Timonen is 5'9.

Ristolainen is right handed. Timonen is left handed.

Ristolainen may be a 2nd unit PP guy. Timonen is a first unit PP guy with QB capabilities.

Aside from a few generalities, I think the two are poor comps. Timonen's IQ is off the charts and is something many prospects, including Ristolainen will never come close to.

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06-26-2013, 12:15 AM
  #979
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He best skill is his hockey sense. He thinks the game at a level well beyond his years, and he does not make many mistakes on the ice. He is an aware, effective defenseman who can close gaps with his body or with his stick. With the puck, he shows calmness, but he can process the game quickly when the situation calls for it.
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...us-Ristolainen

This is the main reason why I think Risto is the BPA if he is available. This is the most important piece to being a high end defender and its something that can't be taught. I don't want the biggest dman and hope he somehow acquires hockey sense and puts it all together. I want someone who already has all the tools and already is proving himself at a much higher level.

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06-26-2013, 12:25 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...us-Ristolainen

This is the main reason why I think Risto is the BPA if he is available. This is the most important piece to being a high end defender and its something that can't be taught. I don't want the biggest dman and hope he somehow acquires hockey sense and puts it all together. I want someone who already has all the tools and already is proving himself at a much higher level.
Completely in agreement here. I love the "shows calmess, but can process the game quickly if the situation calls for it" part.

To me, that's the mark of a #1 defender. Someone who can dictate the tempo of the game depending on the team's needs at that given time. That's what Pronger was the best in the league at doing, and that is exactly what the Flyers lacked last season.

So many times the team would make a mistake then start scrambling. We need a player who can step on the ice and slow it all down for the team. Every team makes mistakes, the one's who recover the best from those mistakes are the teams who have a player that can calm the game down when it becomes too hectic.

Seems like the perfect fit to me. I'm one to always say that a fan should never be mad if a team skips over your preferred player at the draft, but I must say, I'll be more than a little disappointed if we skip Ristolainen if he's available.

Nurse may be more of a "complete package" at this point, but Risto just seems to have a quality that you either have or you don't. And it's a rare one.

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06-26-2013, 07:02 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Yeah, NJ is in a very similar position that we were in with Couturier (even though we didn't know it at the time). NJ needs help everywhere, and I can't see them passing on Monahan or Lindholm if one of them is available. Not sure how they'd feel about Nichushkin, though.

My projection:

COL- Mackinnon
FLA- Barkov
TB- Jones
NSH- Drouin
CAR- Nurse/Risto/Zadorov
CGY- Lindholm
EDM- Monahan
BUF- Shinkaruk
NJ- Nichushkin
DAL- Wennberg


EDIT: Also, I don't think it's impossible for Drouin to fall. I could definitely see Nashville liking Monahan or Lindholm more than Drouin. Wouldn't shock me to see Drouin end up to Carolina or Calgary.
If Drouin falls to 5 he will be a Flyer. I would put money on it. Carolina wants a dman plus if Drouin falls it is because of a size issue which will scare Carolina away with all the injury problems of Skinner.

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06-26-2013, 07:05 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
If Drouin falls to 5 he will be a Flyer. I would put money on it. Carolina wants a dman plus if Drouin falls it is because of a size issue which will scare Carolina away with all the injury problems of Skinner.
You think? I am not so sure. If Drouin falls to five there would be an all out bidding war on the pick. It would probably cost at least two firsts plus something else (and that is a low estimate IMO).

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06-26-2013, 07:17 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You think? I am not so sure. If Drouin falls to five there would be an all out bidding war on the pick. It would probably cost at least two firsts plus something else (and that is a low estimate IMO).
I don't think it will be that much. Is there a better defenseman than Coburn available? Coburn gets killed by Flyers fans but he is still a good top 4 defenseman on a reasonable contract. Teams aren't trading those, and really the Flyers shouldn't either. The only other quality defenseman I could see offered in a package to move up is Yandle, which would be an out of character move by Maloney. Carolina wants help now and has an internal budget so you can cross guys off like Myers from Buffalo.

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06-26-2013, 07:25 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I don't think it will be that much. Is there a better defenseman than Coburn available? Coburn gets killed by Flyers fans but he is still a good top 4 defenseman on a reasonable contract. Teams aren't trading those, and really the Flyers shouldn't either. The only other quality defenseman I could see offered in a package to move up is Yandle, which would be an out of character move by Maloney. Carolina wants help now and has an internal budget so you can cross guys off like Myers from Buffalo.
But the problem isn't simply that Carolina needs defense and there may not be better guys available. Coburn + 11 I imagine would NOT be the best offer they receive. Coburn + 11 + next year's first? Maybe, maybe not. Carolina may need defense, but if someone offers them two first rounders and an NHL roster player (or more), it wouldn't be as cut and dried. When you are talking about a guy like Drouin falling, the number of the pick is less significant. Yes going from 11 to 5 normally won't cost you that much, but going from 11 to 5 to pick Drouin, when likely a good chunk of other teams would be trying to move up, is going to cost a pretty penny. One that I don't think the Flyers could or should match. For instance, I would be willing to bet that a team like Calgary or CBJ with multiple first rounders would easily come up with a better offer to get a guy like Drouin.

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06-26-2013, 07:27 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
If Drouin falls to 5 he will be a Flyer. I would put money on it.
I would put twice as much on that not happening. The cost to move up would be prohibitive. And trading Coburn plus the 11th plus whatever else Carolina would want for a rookie forward would gut the already brittle defense.

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06-26-2013, 07:40 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
But the problem isn't simply that Carolina needs defense and there may not be better guys available. Coburn + 11 I imagine would NOT be the best offer they receive. Coburn + 11 + next year's first? Maybe, maybe not. Carolina may need defense, but if someone offers them two first rounders and an NHL roster player (or more), it wouldn't be as cut and dried. When you are talking about a guy like Drouin falling, the number of the pick is less significant. Yes going from 11 to 5 normally won't cost you that much, but going from 11 to 5 to pick Drouin, when likely a good chunk of other teams would be trying to move up, is going to cost a pretty penny. One that I don't think the Flyers could or should match. For instance, I would be willing to bet that a team like Calgary or CBJ with multiple first rounders would easily come up with a better offer to get a guy like Drouin.
I think you are overvaluing Drouin a bit. He is still just a prospect. Draft trades is more else the value of the pick not the player. If he falls to 5, the bidding is for the 5th pick not a predraft top 3 talent. Just cause the guy has predraft hype doesn't mean that is his value in a trade. A good example would be Cam Fowler. He was a top 3 talent his draft year but fell out of the top 10. Does that mean if someone wanted to draft him at 7 as he fell, they would have to pay a top 3 ransom. No, they would have had to pay the price to move to 7. So would Calgary pay 2 first round picks to move up 1 spot? Would Columbus offer all 3 first round picks to move up 9 spots?

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06-26-2013, 07:40 AM
  #987
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I was watching NHL network this morning and they had a segment on Darnell Nurse. I didn't know he is such a workout freak. He works out before games, after games. His coaches say he's one of the hardest workers they have seen. He also is constantly watching film and even takes it home with him. Sounds like a guy any team would want. There is no question the guy is committed to be the best he can be. This makes me feel better about the possibility of the Flyers taking him shall he be available.

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06-26-2013, 07:46 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I think you are overvaluing Drouin a bit. He is still just a prospect. Draft trades is more else the value of the pick not the player. If he falls to 5, the bidding is for the 5th pick not a predraft top 3 talent. Just cause the guy has predraft hype doesn't mean that is his value in a trade. A good example would be Cam Fowler. He was a top 3 talent his draft year but fell out of the top 10. Does that mean if someone wanted to draft him at 7 as he fell, they would have to pay a top 3 ransom. No, they would have had to pay the price to move to 7. So would Calgary pay 2 first round picks to move up 1 spot? Would Columbus offer all 3 first round picks to move up 9 spots?
I don't know. There is a difference between pre-draft hype on a guy like Fowler and pre-draft hype like Drouin. Outside of the top two in that draft, I don't remember people being too excited about the depth. Fowler was never as highly touted as Drouin (other than being ranked the same). If you are trading to move up, typically it is for the value of the pick, unless a guy like Drouin falls. The reason is because there are going to be a ton of teams interested. If Monahan or Lindholm falls to lets say ten, there won't be a bidding a war because the interest won't be from as many teams. Simple supply and demand, no?

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06-26-2013, 07:58 AM
  #989
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I don't know. There is a difference between pre-draft hype on a guy like Fowler and pre-draft hype like Drouin. Outside of the top two in that draft, I don't remember people being too excited about the depth. Fowler was never as highly touted as Drouin (other than being ranked the same). If you are trading to move up, typically it is for the value of the pick, unless a guy like Drouin falls. The reason is because there are going to be a ton of teams interested. If Monahan or Lindholm falls to lets say ten, there won't be a bidding a war because the interest won't be from as many teams. Simple supply and demand, no?
True there is a supply and demand element to it but your are under the assumption that Drouin is ranked at such a high level above guys like Monahan or Lindholm on teams' boards just because his ranked so high on scouting serivces. If he falls to 5, the scouting services are already wrong about him. If he is #1 on a couple of teams boards, there could be a bidding war but when has a draft spot got a kings ransom in picks/players? Not Pronger, not the Sedins, not Fluery. Lindros is the only one I can think off. The other question that needs to be asked is the difference between say Drouin and Nurse two 1st round picks and Coburn in scouts eyes? or Drouin and Wennberg?

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06-26-2013, 08:03 AM
  #990
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I was watching NHL network this morning and they had a segment on Darnell Nurse. I didn't know he is such a workout freak. He works out before games, after games. His coaches say he's one of the hardest workers they have seen. He also is constantly watching film and even takes it home with him. Sounds like a guy any team would want. There is no question the guy is committed to be the best he can be. This makes me feel better about the possibility of the Flyers taking him shall he be available.
ESPN Magazine had a little article on him about how he started working out with Donovan McNabb and other NFL players when he was 13 and he really impressed the pros with his work ethic. I think coming from a family of athletes is probably a reason why he is so dedicated and mature beyond his years in that aspect.

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06-26-2013, 08:11 AM
  #991
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ESPN Magazine had a little article on him about how he started working out with Donovan McNabb and other NFL players when he was 13 and he really impressed the pros with his work ethic. I think coming from a family of athletes is probably a reason why he is so dedicated and mature beyond his years in that aspect.
Isn't the knock on Nurse his hockey IQ, not work ethic?

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06-26-2013, 08:28 AM
  #992
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Isn't the knock on Nurse his hockey IQ, not work ethic?
Yeah, but they say the same thing about Jones anymore too.

I'll trust the Flyers decision on hockey IQ far more than the scouts at this point.

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06-26-2013, 08:53 AM
  #993
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What did he get on his hockey iq test?

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06-26-2013, 08:56 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
True there is a supply and demand element to it but your are under the assumption that Drouin is ranked at such a high level above guys like Monahan or Lindholm on teams' boards just because his ranked so high on scouting serivces. If he falls to 5, the scouting services are already wrong about him. If he is #1 on a couple of teams boards, there could be a bidding war but when has a draft spot got a kings ransom in picks/players? Not Pronger, not the Sedins, not Fluery. Lindros is the only one I can think off. The other question that needs to be asked is the difference between say Drouin and Nurse two 1st round picks and Coburn in scouts eyes? or Drouin and Wennberg?
Yeah I guess you make some valid points after looking back at some of the trades. If the Flyers could get him for Coburn + I'd do it.

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06-26-2013, 09:12 AM
  #995
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So... Am I the only one around who really likes Robert Hagg? I know he had a bit of an up and down year, but this guy seems to have all the tools:

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...es/Robert-Hagg

Hagg is a really gifted defenseman who progressed as the season went on, going from the junior league to playing in the SEL although his performance was up and down throughout the campaign. Hagg has a real easiness to his game. He is a high-end skater, possessing an effortless stride and quick acceleration. He appears to glide when he is on the ice, with a high amount of offensive ability. He makes quality rushes, and he displays great puck movement in every zone. He is not a flashy puck handler, but he has good subtle hands, with the ability to make open ice maneuvers. He has a big shot from the point, and several NHL sources indicate that he frequently relies on that asset. Scouts are divided on Hagg's defensive play. One thinks it is his best asset, while another calls him a very well-rounded player, and yet others say his defense needs work. From my assessment, I do not think he is an exceptional defensive player. He is quality in his own end, but he does make the odd bad decision here and there. Still, there is a lot to like about Hagg. He has a great hockey brain, mobility, and solid physicality.

The only knock on him seems to be that he is prone to some defensive lapses. Well, he's a kid. Seems like that's something that can be cured with maturity and coaching. Otherwise, what's not to like?

If Nurse and Risto are both gone by 11, I'm not sure there's any other defenseman I would rather take than Hagg.

The other guy I wouldn't mind seeing them take is Mueller. Seems to have a similar tool set to Hagg.

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06-26-2013, 09:13 AM
  #996
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So... Am I the only one around who really likes Robert Hagg? I know he had a bit of an up and down year, but this guy seems to have all the tools:

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013/NHL-D...es/Robert-Hagg

Hagg is a really gifted defenseman who progressed as the season went on, going from the junior league to playing in the SEL although his performance was up and down throughout the campaign. Hagg has a real easiness to his game. He is a high-end skater, possessing an effortless stride and quick acceleration. He appears to glide when he is on the ice, with a high amount of offensive ability. He makes quality rushes, and he displays great puck movement in every zone. He is not a flashy puck handler, but he has good subtle hands, with the ability to make open ice maneuvers. He has a big shot from the point, and several NHL sources indicate that he frequently relies on that asset. Scouts are divided on Hagg's defensive play. One thinks it is his best asset, while another calls him a very well-rounded player, and yet others say his defense needs work. From my assessment, I do not think he is an exceptional defensive player. He is quality in his own end, but he does make the odd bad decision here and there. Still, there is a lot to like about Hagg. He has a great hockey brain, mobility, and solid physicality.

The only knock on him seems to be that he is prone to some defensive lapses. Well, he's a kid. Seems like that's something that can be cured with maturity and coaching. Otherwise, what's not to like?

If Nurse and Risto are both gone by 11, I'm not sure there's any other defenseman I would rather take than Hagg.

The other guy I wouldn't mind seeing them take is Mueller. Seems to have a similar tool set to Hagg.
There's a lot to like about literally every player in the top 30 this year; possibly even the top 45.

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06-26-2013, 09:16 AM
  #997
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Chris I see you in the Facebook group arguing. Don't even try. not worth it.

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06-26-2013, 09:21 AM
  #998
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Chris I see you in the Facebook group arguing. Don't even try. not worth it.
Let me have my fun.

I haven't gotten to yell at kids like this in forever. A lot of them barely even know what they're talking about. I didn't even realize this existed until like yesterday.

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06-26-2013, 09:22 AM
  #999
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There's a lot to like about literally every player in the top 30 this year; possibly even the top 45.
I agree, there's a lot of quality there. I guess my concern is that the Flyers will go strictly BPA, whereas I would really like to see them address need this year.

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06-26-2013, 09:23 AM
  #1000
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