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Bob Gainey attempted to trade up at '03 Draft to select Marc-Andre Fleury

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06-25-2013, 10:03 PM
  #51
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How many people are trashing Gainey in this thread, but were applauding him back in the day?

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06-25-2013, 10:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
A thread that goes back into the past and deals with "What Ifs" never ends well............

The dog is sleeping peacefully. Just let him lay there.
Very true.

We'll never know whether its true or not, if Gainey was serious or not (did he offer half the team or just a few picks?) and we'll also never know how Fleury would have faired with us (who knows? different situation, goalie coach... perhaps with us he wouldn't have been thrown to the wolves so early like he was with Pittsburgh).

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Originally Posted by Habs
How many people are trashing Gainey in this thread, but were applauding him back in the day?
I think Gainey was, ultimately, an average GM. Theres been far worse and far better. Most NHL GMs have fairly exhaustive lists of boneheaded moves and blunders. Gainey had his share of good and bad. He still left the team in a better state than he took it but he failed to bring his team to another level.

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06-25-2013, 10:45 PM
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Very true.

We'll never know whether its true or not, if Gainey was serious or not (did he offer half the team or just a few picks?) and we'll also never know how Fleury would have faired with us (who knows? different situation, goalie coach... perhaps with us he wouldn't have been thrown to the wolves so early like he was with Pittsburgh).



I think Gainey was, ultimately, an average GM. Theres been far worse and far better. Most NHL GMs have fairly exhaustive lists of boneheaded moves and blunders. Gainey had his share of good and bad. He still left the team in a better state than he took it but he failed to bring his team to another level.
Don't look at me, I detested him from early on.

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06-25-2013, 11:05 PM
  #54
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Glad that never happened. Mostly relieved, actually.

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06-25-2013, 11:20 PM
  #55
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Fleury is a very good backup, not sure why people are bashing him.

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06-25-2013, 11:26 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
How many people are trashing Gainey in this thread, but were applauding him back in the day?
How many people are trashing Price in this thread who will be back to applauding him next year? Same ol same ol...

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06-25-2013, 11:48 PM
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It's funny, but had Gainey actually pulled off the deal for #1 and selected Fleury, he would have been applauded and adored. RDS would love him lol. But it would have only taken three years for fans and media to turn on him for it because Staal had a 100 point season and Montreal should have taken the big first line center they've been wanting for years

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06-25-2013, 11:54 PM
  #58
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So what's next? Gainey attempting to trade his first three picks in 2007 in order to get Thomas Hickey at 4?

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06-25-2013, 11:57 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
How many people are trashing Price in this thread who will be back to applauding him next year? Same ol same ol...
yup.

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06-26-2013, 02:46 AM
  #60
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Fleury won a ****ing cup, and the year he did, he didn't **** the bed. I'll give him that much.

What's the point of this thread? Hasn't Bob suffered enough abuse? Let the dead horse be.

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06-26-2013, 03:20 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Fleury won a ****ing cup, and the year he did, he didn't **** the bed. I'll give him that much.

What's the point of this thread? Hasn't Bob suffered enough abuse? Let the dead horse be.
Apart from the fact I think Fleury is atrocious, I totally agree with your sentiment re: Gainey.

He came in and took us out of the dark days. Sure, there are things that we can nitpick, most obviously the retool after the embarrassing sweep at the hans of the bruins when, as everyone forgets so easily, people were disgusted by our team. It was only after it was clear Kovalev was being let go that the uproar started and tbh Gainey let him go when he was still an effective player (or just at the moment he ceased to be). I wonder if people remember when Gainey pulled the trigger ON Kovalev to bring him to Montreal for NOTHING. The Komi deal, everyone is relieved, though I wonder what he would have looked like with Markov (IF Markov hadn't had those very unlucky injuries).

Gainey did do a lot of good and I was a fan of his. During his time, there have been FAR worse GMs and not too many that were godly/not bailed out completely by the draft (which involves being a horrible GM for consecutive years). He obviously went through a lot personally and it's no coincidence that it coincided with suspect moves. He was probably the driving force behind Price still being here and when Carey lifts that Conn Smythe, I will thank Gainey for that. In a related note, if what Bobby Mac says is true, whoever "refused" the trade indirectly led us to Price two years later. Interesting that we were looking for/considering drafting a goalie throughout Theo's tenure.

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06-26-2013, 03:29 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
How many people are trashing Gainey in this thread, but were applauding him back in the day?
I hated him at first, but at the time I didn't know much about hockey in general. Then I started defending him because I saw upward progression and lots of good draft picks. Then he did publicized his smurf fetish and I played along but in hindsight I think he's one of the worst GMs since the lockout. An absolute travesty.

Mea culpa.

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06-26-2013, 03:32 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I hated him at first, but at the time I didn't know much about hockey in general. Then I started defending him because I saw upward progression and lots of good draft picks. Then he did publicized his smurf fetish and I played along but in hindsight I think he's one of the worst GMs since the lockout. An absolute travesty.

Mea culpa.
Agreed. While he did take us out of the dark ages he put us right back down the black hole with his half assed free agent rebuild.

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06-26-2013, 03:37 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I hated him at first, but at the time I didn't know much about hockey in general. Then I started defending him because I saw upward progression and lots of good draft picks. Then he did publicized his smurf fetish and I played along but in hindsight I think he's one of the worst GMs since the lockout. An absolute travesty.

Mea culpa.
I think he saw it as more of a "winner" fetish, though I admit, his recipe might not have been perfect. That said, Cammy was ridiculously popular here and Gionta in his first two years was awesome. It's really that one trade that we can all agree on that makes him look ridiculous (though speculation that the Ghost is the one who threw in McDo). If Moen ends up returning to form, we have him to thank for that as well. I'm torn about the Ribs thing cuz of the return/Ribs turned out to be extremely talented, but then again, even formerly having a Ribeiro jersey, I ended up hating the guy. I guess then it's that guy we got in return. I see him popping up in unexpected places.

Travesty? There are plenty of GMs that were worse than him and you really have to consider how we haven't benefitted from drafting as much as the so-called masterminds. How would you describe John Ferguson Jr.? FTM, Burke pretty much built the bruins.

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06-26-2013, 03:46 AM
  #65
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Agreed. While he did take us out of the dark ages he put us right back down the black hole with his half assed free agent rebuild.
Agreed. The way he bailed on the team afterward was just classic Gainey too.

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I think he saw it as more of a "winner" fetish, though I admit, his recipe might not have been perfect. That said, Cammy was ridiculously popular here and Gionta in his first two years was awesome. It's really that one trade that we can all agree on that makes him look ridiculous (though speculation that the Ghost is the one who threw in McDo). If Moen ends up returning to form, we have him to thank for that as well. I'm torn about the Ribs thing cuz of the return/Ribs turned out to be extremely talented, but then again, even formerly having a Ribeiro jersey, I ended up hating the guy. I guess then it's that guy we got in return. I see him popping up in unexpected places.

Travesty? There are plenty of GMs that were worse than him and you really have to consider how we haven't benefitted from drafting as much as the so-called masterminds. How would you describe John Ferguson Jr.? FTM, Burke pretty much built the bruins.
The Ribeiro trade was terrible. One of the worst trades since the lockout. As bad as "his personality" might've been, Gainey was one inept, do-nothing GM if he couldn't handle his up-and-coming star players without trading them FOR NOTHING IN RETURN.

And it's not a winners fetish, what he did was take all the good drafting and lucky breaks we've had and **** all over it. Even hiring Jacques Martin, out of every coach available, including the leagues better Lemaire, was classic Gainey.

The man preached patience and youth and within 48 hours dumped all our eggs in the Gomez-Gionta-Cammy smurf basket and made us endure 2+ years of brutal non-physical negative hockey. I wish him nothing but misery in his future hockey endeavors.

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06-26-2013, 03:54 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Agreed. The way he bailed on the team afterward was just classic Gainey too.



The Ribeiro trade was terrible. One of the worst trades since the lockout. As bad as "his personality" might've been, Gainey was one inept, do-nothing GM if he couldn't handle his up-and-coming star players without trading them FOR NOTHING IN RETURN.

And it's not a winners fetish, what he did was take all the good drafting and lucky breaks we've had and **** all over it. Even hiring Jacques Martin, out of every coach available, including the leagues better Lemaire, was classic Gainey.

The man preached patience and youth and within 48 hours dumped all our eggs in the Gomez-Gionta-Cammy smurf basket and made us endure 2+ years of brutal non-physical negative hockey. I wish him nothing but misery in his future hockey endeavors.
It is not as though Gainey wanted a complete rebuild. People give him too much credit by thinking he blew up the team because if what he saw behind the bench.

He did offer contracts to Komisarek and Kovalev. The team would not have been as different if they had accepted those reasonable offers.

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06-26-2013, 03:58 AM
  #67
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It is not as though Gainey wanted a complete rebuild.

He did offer contracts to Komisarek and Kovalev. The team would not have been as different if they had accepted those reasonable offers.
But they didn't sign. And what Gainey did in its stead was what we had before us for the past 3 years.

You can't credit the man for failing - or else you should credit him for getting Hossa or signing Shanahan or whatever. The truth is that Gainey, in execution, did a great job of narrowly avoiding making any good moves and totally slam-dunking awful ones. Riberio trade, Tanguay trade and Gomez come to mind.

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06-26-2013, 04:39 AM
  #68
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I remember when we all begged that Gainey would move up and select a hyped prospect...

Let's call it for what it is. He seeked an upgrade but who knows what he would've paid. I mean, that's the important part isn't it? How much did you want to pay to move up?

Also, all this reveals to me is gainey tried moving up in drafts or getting a hossa or lecavalier. I'm not phased by this, especially since it didn't happen and even if it did...maybe we wouldn't have rushed fleury as we had Theodore. We wouldn't need Price and may have a kopitar after, who knows.

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06-26-2013, 04:43 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
But they didn't sign. And what Gainey did in its stead was what we had before us for the past 3 years.

You can't credit the man for failing - or else you should credit him for getting Hossa or signing Shanahan or whatever. The truth is that Gainey, in execution, did a great job of narrowly avoiding making any good moves and totally slam-dunking awful ones. Riberio trade, Tanguay trade and Gomez come to mind.
What was wrong with Tanguay?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it:

Tanguay+Maxim Trunev for Greg Nemisz+Stefan Elliott

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06-26-2013, 06:07 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
What was wrong with Tanguay?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it:

Tanguay+Maxim Trunev for Greg Nemisz+Stefan Elliott
To trade a first for Tanguay and then cut him loose after a season is piss-poor asset management.

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06-26-2013, 06:32 AM
  #71
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gainey

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06-26-2013, 06:46 AM
  #72
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To trade a first for Tanguay and then cut him loose after a season is piss-poor asset management.
Gainey really made some dumb moves that we are still to this day paying for.

The Ribeiro move was dumb. What was even dumber was the return. We have struggled to replace him for all these years.

Not negotiating contracts during the season. DUMB. We could have gotten some nice pieces if he unloaded pending UFA's at the deadline.

The Gomez deal was DUMB. Which is scary because the Lecavalier deal where the NHL had to save him from himself was even DUMBER.

The way he handled Price. DUMB!

Trading a 1st+ for Tanguay, then letting him walk the next year. DUMB

I will always love Gainey, but as a GM he was putrid. I had said this years ago (not on here of course) when everyone was singing his praises.

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06-26-2013, 07:22 AM
  #73
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Franchise goalies don't ask to be traded!
For the record, the only people to blame for Patrick Roy, who was our FRANCHISE FRENCH goaltender and won us not 1, but 2 SCs, was Corey, Houle, and Tremblay.

Corey is an idiot for bringing Houle in, who subsequently brought in Tremblay. Had Corey at the time of this issue, said to Houle "You fire Tremblay right now, or you're done." instead of "Okay, trade him. But don't make sure you can get good value in return. You don't have to suspend him and not pay him for not playing."

Like talk about "BAD MANAGEMENT". These guys were terrible. Gainey was a walk in the park compared to Houle.

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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I think he saw it as more of a "winner" fetish, though I admit, his recipe might not have been perfect. That said, Cammy was ridiculously popular here and Gionta in his first two years was awesome. It's really that one trade that we can all agree on that makes him look ridiculous (though speculation that the Ghost is the one who threw in McDo). If Moen ends up returning to form, we have him to thank for that as well. I'm torn about the Ribs thing cuz of the return/Ribs turned out to be extremely talented, but then again, even formerly having a Ribeiro jersey, I ended up hating the guy. I guess then it's that guy we got in return. I see him popping up in unexpected places.

Travesty? There are plenty of GMs that were worse than him and you really have to consider how we haven't benefitted from drafting as much as the so-called masterminds. How would you describe John Ferguson Jr.? FTM, Burke pretty much built the bruins.
Umm no. Burke's "additions" of Seguin and Hamilton, only Seguin really helped the team, and that was marginal in the entire run to the SCF. Don't discredit Chia for making an unbelievable team, trading for Rask, Horton, Seidenberg, Ference (i think), Jagr and signing Chara. Draftinig Marchand, Lucic, etc.

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06-26-2013, 07:32 AM
  #74
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The "success" we had in the 2000s is largely due to:

1) drafting koivu and markov in the 1990s
2) andre savard hiring timmins.
3) gainey being lucky when sather chose balej over plekanec in the Kovalev trade.
4) gainey settling for hamrlik on his best UFA signing because he screwed up the Sourray situation (luck again).

I hope for a better foundation in the 2010s.

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06-26-2013, 07:36 AM
  #75
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Umm no. Burke's "additions" of Seguin and Hamilton, only Seguin really helped the team, and that was marginal in the entire run to the SCF. Don't discredit Chia for making an unbelievable team, trading for Rask, Horton, Seidenberg, Ference (i think), Jagr and signing Chara. Draftinig Marchand, Lucic, etc.
I really want Beaulieu to have a better career than Hamilton.

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