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OFFICIAL GDT: 10/16 Devils @ Rangers 7 PM

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Old
10-17-2006, 06:14 PM
  #426
Melrose_Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/gamece...0061016_NJ@NYR

Who's to say whether these are completely accurate - the Zajac goal looks off.
Ron Low and John Muckler are shown in the "shots" drop down menu, so I'd definitely question it's accuracy.

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10-17-2006, 06:20 PM
  #427
Ola
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Frankly, it IS a big issue. We need a player who can step in and give the confidence to role 4 lines. If for some reason a guy like Dawes doesn't give Renney that confidence, than we should look elsewhere until he does.

Days like these make me miss Ortmeyer. We'd have 4 complete lines rolling.

There's no need to have a player to only play 4 minutes. None.
I agree with you. Frankly I think Renney are left with no other choice then to play Ward on the 4th line, I think he would prefer Ward on the 3rd line, like Hall-Betts-Ward. Our 4th line where decent last night, but it aren't convincing. With Dom Moore and Orts that line always floated, Renney could always relay on them.

Though this is how I think it will play out. My bet is that we will continue to go with it as it is right now. If we play well -- the defense can thighten up, the PP becomes one of the premier in the league, other players really steps up -- we will aquire a center for the 2nd line, not a 4th line player, at the deadline. If we aren't playing well, the 4th line aren't the problem anyway.

There are always great players available at the deadline. Lets say just for fun that Joe Sakic becomes available. And we are playing really well, like we did before the olympic break last year. Sather manages to swing a deal for Sakic. Cullen are bumped to the 3rd line, and Betts to the 4th line. Then the 4th line wouldn't be a problem anymore.

Straka-Nyllet-Jagr
Prucha-Sakic-Shanahan
Hollweg-Cullen-Hall
Hossa-Betts-Ward

With thoose 4 lines we would be able to compete, if the D is strong and with Lundqvist in net.

I would hate to see us make a move for a 4th lineer right now, cause in the end its never the 4th line thats the problem. IF we looks like we might contend, its time to make a move, at this point I don't want to see a chicken move like picking up Sykore was last season.

If we aren't looking good, I don't care one iota about the 4th line. Then all the focus should be on beeing loaded once Tampa decides moving one of their 7m players, or someone else in that mode becomes available.

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Old
10-17-2006, 06:22 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
If you can find an enforcer who can actually PLAY the game and keep up with every day players, call me and I'll tell Glen to sign him immediately.
I'm sure there are some guys out there. If McGrattan, Josh Gratton, Boulton, Peters, etc can do it, then we can find someone out there. For now, that is Orr, but I'm hoping we can find somebody else. How is the Lessard kid who was here in camp? Also, maybe we have a guy in the minors like the Sens did with BMac or the Devs did with Janssen. Also, Jessiman could fit the role next year

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10-17-2006, 06:37 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
what's Renney doing that's keeping Hollweg from being effective? Serious question, I'm not being argumentative. I thought putting Hollweg on the third line to get him some more icetime was actually Renney trying to do just what you want him to do, but I think I'm missing something from your perspective.
I just get the feeling that Renney is trying to put a muzzle on players like Hollweg & Kasper. Not the muzzle that prevents them from talking, but if you see Cam Jan taking runs at your top players, I just get the sense that Renney is not into sending Hollweg with a specific mission of running Gomez/Gionta/Elias through the boards.

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Old
10-17-2006, 06:37 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Blame it on the forwards but those 5 feet in front of Lundqvist belong to the defenders. Right now it is owned by the rest of the league and everyone knows it.
`

Well, you are wrong. The area you mention AKA "slot" is our centre responsibility, not D-men. They must be normally positioned to the right and the left of the crease. This is pretty basic wide spread misunderstanding. If slot is vacant that mean our C doesn't come back in time. That is why I am so concern about centres. It is the toughest job, IMO.

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10-17-2006, 06:46 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Well, you are wrong. The area you mention AKA "slot" is our centre responsibility, not D-men. They must be normally positioned to the right and the left of the crease. This is pretty basic wide spread misunderstanding. If slot is vacant that mean our C doesn't come back in time. That is why I am so concern about centres. It is the toughest job, IMO.
To a certain extent, the D's and the center goes man to man. If the puck is behind the net, Kaspar can acutally be up at the blueline, and still have his man, if he for example are following Patrik Elias, and he moves back to the blueline and D joins the attack. Then the winger who haves the D have to go with him and Kaspar stay with Elias.

Thats a big reason for why D's look extremely out of place at times, or the covering looks extremely bad. The D's and the center have just misunderstood each other. Some coaches use a extreme man to man system, though the majority uses a mix. When collected you are supposed to follow your man, if you are scrambling to get back its important to just get on the inside so to speak. There are often harsh remarks about both D's gooing behind the net and leaving a man infront of the net uncovered, if they have followed their player they have done their job. Though it might as well be they who made the misstake and the center who where dooing his job.

There where a good example last night, Michaletti (sp) made a comment about it. Rozival and Malik stood up at the blueline, and a 3rd NJD player just blew past them and got a great scoring chance, that where Nylanders guy, but Rozival certainly looked like the fool on the play for a untrained eye.

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Old
10-17-2006, 07:11 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I'm pretty well convinced that the idea of "getting in someone's face" after they hit a teams star player really only serves to appease the fans, and has little effect on the game. Yeah...Cam Janssen is really gonna change his play cuz someone pushes him after he checks Jagr...

If you want to get someone back for that, you go out there and hit them back. The Rangers did that, and completely outhit the devils the entire night. They also threw the biggest and nastiest checks in the game, and they were on the Devils star players.

I'd like to see the Rangers keep hitting like they did last night
I completely disagree that getting in someones face is totally ineffective. In the least it lets everyone know that you won't allow players to run your stars. In any physical sport intimidation is still a key. It might make a guy like Janssens take notice next time he takes a run at Jagr. Even the slightest hesitation may take him off his game enough were he becomes a nonfactor. Or maybe it gets him chasing after someone other than the star.

As to the hitting absolutely we threw the bigger checks last nite. It started with Kaspar and the team followed. If not for the horrible refs last nite the game might not have been as close as it was.

Lastly to those who believe intimidation isn't much of a factor anymore, rewatch the last minute of yesterdays game. Low and behold the Debbies put Janssens out there even though they were 2 goals down. Kinda looks like they gave up on winning the game and decided it was more important to deliver a message. Thats the kind of stuff that builds team morale and team unity not to mention catches the attention of the other teams. Something that Renney needs to do more often.

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Old
10-17-2006, 09:06 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
I completely disagree that getting in someones face is totally ineffective. In the least it lets everyone know that you won't allow players to run your stars. In any physical sport intimidation is still a key. It might make a guy like Janssens take notice next time he takes a run at Jagr. Even the slightest hesitation may take him off his game enough were he becomes a nonfactor. Or maybe it gets him chasing after someone other than the star.
It won't affect Janssen in the slightest. He revels in that stuff, as do most players like him. Shoving someone isn't a deterrant, and jumping them puts your team in trouble.

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10-17-2006, 09:23 PM
  #434
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Renney doesn't sound like he wants to muzzle anybody.......


"He took two strides and glided the rest of the way...and what ends up happening on impact, you explode and he finished his check," Renney said. "Maybe that part of the game unfortunately is gone now. In that case, I'm extremely disappointed because this is still a passionate, physical, spontaneous game and if we penalize people for playing that way because that is part of what they're all about and what teams require, we're doing the game a disservice, and that was not a penalty." On the third period call? "Complete obstruction," Renney said. "All of a sudden Ryan Hollweg has a target on his back."

During practice, Renney told Hollweg not to change his aggressive style. "We'll kill his penalties anytime," a defiant Renney said---except for lazy stick fouls. "All of the penalties that put a fear of God in the opponent we don't have a problem with."
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/blog/


Last edited by Son of Steinbrenner: 10-17-2006 at 10:19 PM.
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Old
10-17-2006, 09:28 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Renney doesn't sound like he want's to muzzle anybody.......


"He took two strides and glided the rest of the way...and what ends up happening on impact, you explode and he finished his check," Renney said. "Maybe that part of the game unfortunately is gone now. In that case, I'm extremely disappointed because this is still a passionate, physical, spontaneous game and if we penalize people for playing that way because that is part of what they're all about and what teams require, we're doing the game a disservice, and that was not a penalty." On the third period call? "Complete obstruction," Renney said. "All of a sudden Ryan Hollweg has a target on his back."

During practice, Renney told Hollweg not to change his aggressive style. "We'll kill his penalties anytime," a defiant Renney said---except for lazy stick fouls. "All of the penalties that put a fear of God in the opponent we don't have a problem with."
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/hockey/rangers/blog/
Good to hear

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Old
10-18-2006, 08:45 AM
  #436
94now
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
To a certain extent, the D's and the center goes man to man. If the puck is behind the net, Kaspar can acutally be up at the blueline, and still have his man, if he for example are following Patrik Elias, and he moves back to the blueline and D joins the attack. Then the winger who haves the D have to go with him and Kaspar stay with Elias.

Thats a big reason for why D's look extremely out of place at times, or the covering looks extremely bad. The D's and the center have just misunderstood each other. Some coaches use a extreme man to man system, though the majority uses a mix. When collected you are supposed to follow your man, if you are scrambling to get back its important to just get on the inside so to speak. There are often harsh remarks about both D's gooing behind the net and leaving a man infront of the net uncovered, if they have followed their player they have done their job. Though it might as well be they who made the misstake and the center who where dooing his job.

There where a good example last night, Michaletti (sp) made a comment about it. Rozival and Malik stood up at the blueline, and a 3rd NJD player just blew past them and got a great scoring chance, that where Nylanders guy, but Rozival certainly looked like the fool on the play for a untrained eye.
This deserves a discussion in a separate thread. I will start "Defence 101" right away.

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Old
10-18-2006, 12:30 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Frankly, it IS a big issue. We need a player who can step in and give the confidence to role 4 lines. If for some reason a guy like Dawes doesn't give Renney that confidence, than we should look elsewhere until he does.

Days like these make me miss Ortmeyer. We'd have 4 complete lines rolling.

There's no need to have a player to only play 4 minutes. None.

I agree but I don't think that's what the comment was about.

What Renney should or shouldn't do it another discussion altogether, what Renney is doing was what promoted the enforcer comment which makes.

Whether it's right or wrong, Renney is playing someone 4 minutes.

Personally I think Dawes can very much contribute right now, but 4 minutes is just not going to cut it. Unless he's going to give him the Prucha treatment.

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Old
10-18-2006, 03:25 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Whether it's right or wrong, Renney is playing someone 4 minutes.

Personally I think Dawes can very much contribute right now, but 4 minutes is just not going to cut it. Unless he's going to give him the Prucha treatment.
Didn't Renney say he's not going to use any young player if he's restricted to no more than 4 minutes a game? Unlesss he means to gradually increase his ice time, it's a waste not to have him play.

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