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McDonagh and the 1st overall

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Old
06-26-2013, 10:34 AM
  #76
roboninja
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Tons of hype over someone who has never played in the NHL. I understand he MAY be a franchise player but I'm not giving up McDonagh for a maybe. Certainly not WITH Stepan . This entire board is all about potential and high risk over proven talent
If you think MacKinnon is high risk, you should not leave your house in the morning. "High" risks out there everywhere.

Yes, there is some risk; he has not done it in the NHL yet. But saying high risk just makes your position look better than it is. It is a risk I would take 99 times out of 100. I fully expect MacKinnon to be a Tavares-level player at a minimum.

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06-26-2013, 10:42 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Look at the past 6 yrs #1 picks:

2007: Kane
2008: Stamkos
2009: Tavares
2010: Hall
2011: RNH
2012: Yakupov

I'd easily take any of those players over McDonagh type, only Rangers fans say no to this IMO.

I do this trade.
The undervaluing of defense is incredible. Just...incredible how the statline dictates everything about a player.

Lets be real for a moment - of those players you have two players who are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above McDonagh (Stamkos and Tavares), one who is probably on par (Kane) and three who are huge question marks for one reason or another (Hall and injury, RNH and midgetry, Yakupov and youth)

Yes, you get tons of offensive talent up top. No doubts - but offense is only one component of the game, and frankly aside from Tavares, there isn't a single two-way player in that list.

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06-26-2013, 11:44 AM
  #78
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Let's ask AO how good a defenseman Ryan McDonagh is?

I still think the whole discussion is silly. The Rangers are not trading this guy. The folks who have the pick should hang on to it.

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06-26-2013, 11:50 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
The undervaluing of defense is incredible. Just...incredible how the statline dictates everything about a player.

Lets be real for a moment - of those players you have two players who are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above McDonagh (Stamkos and Tavares), one who is probably on par (Kane) and three who are huge question marks for one reason or another (Hall and injury, RNH and midgetry, Yakupov and youth)

Yes, you get tons of offensive talent up top. No doubts - but offense is only one component of the game, and frankly aside from Tavares, there isn't a single two-way player in that list.
Yeah, but it is more difficult to acquire top end players like those that go first overall. Just because McD is very valuable, doesn't mean he is as valuable as those players listed. McD may hone his offensive game and become a perennial Norris contender. It may also stall. You don't trade first overall for a shutdown guy that's pretty good on offense. You trade it for somebody that you're pretty darn confident will be elite in all areas of the game.

Again, I'd love to have him on my team, but not at what the Rangers would want for him.

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06-26-2013, 12:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Hell, if that's all you want for the 1st OA then I think Coburn + Simmonds would be a package you'd be interested in too.
You mock the Rangers' offer, then post that?

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06-26-2013, 12:11 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
The undervaluing of defense is incredible. Just...incredible how the statline dictates everything about a player.

Lets be real for a moment - of those players you have two players who are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above McDonagh (Stamkos and Tavares), one who is probably on par (Kane) and three who are huge question marks for one reason or another (Hall and injury, RNH and midgetry, Yakupov and youth)

Yes, you get tons of offensive talent up top. No doubts - but offense is only one component of the game, and frankly aside from Tavares, there isn't a single two-way player in that list.
Stopped reading there.

Homers gonna homer.

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06-26-2013, 12:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Stopped reading there.

Homers gonna homer.
And haters gonna hate. You hate your own "team" more than any one I know.

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06-26-2013, 12:49 PM
  #83
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LMAO, McD for the 1rst overal ahahahahaha AHAHAH!!!!!!!!!.

You Amerkans are such kidders.

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06-26-2013, 01:03 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
IMO, Hedman was a #2 overall, coulda been first.

Hedman has better skating, better shot. Better complete package.
But overall, as to results of D performance, I give it to the excellent McD over the strong Hedman.

So overall on balance
Hedman and McDonagh are both high premium value.

So if McD is close enough to Hedman and Hedman is close enough to a first, what does that tell you?

Obviously, we have years where a GENERATIONAL talent comes up in that slot. McK's stature is not there yet, is it?

So answer to your ?, that's one way I measure it.
Even with your flawed analogy, you've answered your own question. Overall Hedman is better, better, better but (and) younger. That the reason for the current difference in performance.

So why does the team drafting 1st overall trade it for a "better today, but not later" type of player?

They don't.

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06-26-2013, 01:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
And haters gonna hate. You hate your own "team" more than any one I know.
I love the Rangers, I'm just not a homer to think Ryan McDonagh is on par with freaking Patrick Kane, an elite player of this generation. If that makes me a hater, so be it.

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06-26-2013, 01:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I love the Rangers, I'm just not a homer to think Ryan McDonagh is on par with freaking Patrick Kane, an elite player of this generation. If that makes me a hater, so be it.
Elite players average less than a ppg? Since when? And Im not debating the Kane Vs McDonagh thing because I agree with you that McD is not worth Kane however the term elite is becoming so over used its a joke.

Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin. Those are elite guys. Kane is not on par with them. He is a star in his own right but as of right now is a step below "elite".

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06-26-2013, 01:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NeedleInTheHay View Post
If they won't trade the first overall for Letang, they sure aren't going to for McDonagh.
You may buy the hype, but MacDonagh is a much better player than Letang.

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06-26-2013, 01:36 PM
  #88
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Ryan Lambert wrote a great peice on Letang and his REAL numbers. Take into consideration the points racked up by playing with the Pens, and you see his stats are WAY outta whack. Whoever gets Letang is gonna overpay and be disappointed.

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06-26-2013, 02:27 PM
  #89
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McDonagh shuts down elite players all the time, without blnking an eye, and he's still extremely young. Whenever Mackinnon makes the NHL McDonagh will be shutting him down too.

You can say what you like, if Mackinnon scores 60 goals and 100 points I'll admit he's more valuable. If he scores 50 goals, he might be better than McDonagh, might be. 40 goals and below AINEC.

McDonagh is a top 5 DFD in the league. Mackinnon likely won't be a top 5 scoring forward, although it is of course possible.

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06-26-2013, 02:34 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
McDonagh shuts down elite players all the time, without blnking an eye, and he's still extremely young. Whenever Mackinnon makes the NHL McDonagh will be shutting him down too.

You can say what you like, if Mackinnon scores 60 goals and 100 points I'll admit he's more valuable. If he scores 50 goals, he might be better than McDonagh, might be. 40 goals and below AINEC.

McDonagh is a top 5 DFD in the league. Mackinnon likely won't be a top 5 scoring forward, although it is of course possible.
+1, but I'd just add that if Mac scores 50 goals I'd def take him over mcd haha.

If av figures out the pp mcd will have 40+ pts next year with outstanding defensive play. the guy will BE a Ryan Suter, not some imitation. I think the value to 1st overall is closer than many give credit for.

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06-26-2013, 02:47 PM
  #91
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NYR need to add big time. I'm on board with those who feel Stepan would need to be in the package, although IMO McDonagh is being massively oversold in the OP.

How is he bordering on becoming an elite defenseman, and where do you see elements of a potential offensive side? The Rangers sure could have used some of this untapped scoring talent when they basically couldn't score a goal the last several seasons.

McDonagh is a top 4 shutdown dman and has more or less plateau'd and is not worth being mentioned in the context of a one for one trade for the 1st OA. And I know that's going to come off as flaming NYR fans but I feel that's absolutely the truth.

Sather definitely hosed Gainey in filching him for Gomez but there is no mistaking him for a franchise defenceman.

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06-26-2013, 02:52 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
McDonagh shuts down elite players all the time, without blnking an eye, and he's still extremely young. Whenever Mackinnon makes the NHL McDonagh will be shutting him down too.

You can say what you like, if Mackinnon scores 60 goals and 100 points I'll admit he's more valuable. If he scores 50 goals, he might be better than McDonagh, might be. 40 goals and below AINEC.

McDonagh is a top 5 DFD in the league. Mackinnon likely won't be a top 5 scoring forward, although it is of course possible.
That last part makes it seem like a DFD is equal to a scoring forward. DFDs are a dime-a-dozen and scoring forwards command elite level packages. There are very few players that are even mentioned as viable hockey players when all they do is just play defensive shut-down roles. Outside of Chara, there is maybe a small handful that would command serious trade value.

Suter, for one... Luke Schenn... Marc Staal... Seabrook... going back a few years Chris Pronger...

Just look at who is winning the Norris ever year. It's offensive defencemen. Not shutdown guys. Suter <<<<<< McDonagh.

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06-26-2013, 03:00 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
NYR need to add big time. I'm on board with those who feel Stepan would need to be in the package, although IMO McDonagh is being massively oversold in the OP.

How is he bordering on becoming an elite defenseman, and where do you see elements of a potential offensive side? The Rangers sure could have used some of this untapped scoring talent when they basically couldn't score a goal the last several seasons.

McDonagh is a top 4 shutdown dman and has more or less plateau'd and is not worth being mentioned in the context of a one for one trade for the 1st OA. And I know that's going to come off as flaming NYR fans but I feel that's absolutely the truth.

Sather definitely hosed Gainey in filching him for Gomez but there is no mistaking him for a franchise defenceman.
Clueless post. McDonagh has got great potential still he has 40+ point potential. He is really good with pinching in and making nice plays. Problem is our former coach preferred Girardi on the point for some reason. Girardi is a warrior and you'll know he'll try to shoot it as soon as he gets it on the PP. I guess that was whay Torts liked about him. Problem is he has no offensive awareness and his slapper is pretty mediocre. While McDonagh has got great skating and creativity. Some of the goals and the plays he makes are really good.


Coaches have their favorites, that doesn't mean those other players that don't get a chance aren't good or better.

So Girardi >> McDonagh in terms of offensive ability I guess since he got more PP time, am I doing this right?

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06-26-2013, 03:53 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Mcd + Stepan + 1st rnd pick 2014 rfor Mack + Stastny?

I don't know, that's probably awful. Either way I think NYR needs to add.
Please stop calling him Mack. No one calls him Mack

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06-26-2013, 04:05 PM
  #95
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so you're saying that Mcdonagh is worth more than a first overall pick.

a little bit too much overating here, no?
Most overrated player on these boards by a mile now that I've stopped seeing people suggest Brayden Schenn would be better than Taylor Hall.

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06-26-2013, 04:17 PM
  #96
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McDough for Paajarvi + 7th overall

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06-26-2013, 04:29 PM
  #97
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McDough for Paajarvi + 7th overall
We have to find this McDough so we can trade him for Paajarvi and the 7th.

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06-26-2013, 04:59 PM
  #98
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McD+Kreider+2014 1st for #1 overall would have me at least listening if I was Sakic, but just do not see why either team would make a trade like this in reality.

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06-26-2013, 05:39 PM
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McDough for Paajarvi + 7th overall


If MacKinnon falls to 7th I'd do it

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06-26-2013, 06:17 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
You mock the Rangers' offer, then post that?
You didn't get that I was mocking the Avs fans who said that something equivalent to this was enough for the 1st OA??? I know that I wouldn't do it if I were the Avs but if that guy was okay with it then I'd take the deal and run away laughing.

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