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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: SCF, end. Trades, begin.

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06-26-2013, 08:20 PM
  #901
EpicDing
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Originally Posted by JC704 View Post
Is anybody as annoyed as I am at the fact that they see so many "Marc Staal proposals" and discussions about trades in this entire forum? Not that Staal doesn't equate to Carolina's 5th pick and more, but let's face the facts here. As good as McDonagh, Girardi, Moore and Del Zotto all are, Staal is still our most complete and best Defenseman. Do you think that it is a coincidence that the Rangers, who played a very similar grinding type of style with good two-way forwards and a great Goaltender bowed out in the playoffs in 5 games to Boston, especially considering they have played Boston fairly well over the last 4-5 years?

It's no coincidence. Staal may not be an elite 60-point Defenseman, but he is an elite, defensive one who is a solid offensive player and fits perfectly in the Rangers Top 4 for their organizational approach. It seems like there are a lot more people (not a majority, of course, far from) who would be very willing to listen to trades and would seemingly, welcome a trade opportunity. Marc loves it in New York and I understand his two brothers play in Carolina, but that does not necessarily mean that he's going to want to follow suit.

I genuinely hope that he gets the raise he deserves once his contract is up and he is as close to a Ranger for life as you can get. I may be biased, but I think, disregarding Staal's eye injury (which doctors say he should recover up to 90%, if not more of his vision back and be ready for next season), Staal and McDonagh on the left side is probably the best two on that side in the entire league. They are a serious part of what we do here and I think moving or entertaining the idea of moving on from Staal would be a serious, serious mistake. IMHO.
This may all be true, but right now McDonagh is better, and he will be in the future. We don't need 2 #1 LDs. We need to trade from a position of strength to fill a hole. That's what this is. The way I see it, we trade either DZ or Staal, and I think we can get more for Staal, plus we can't afford to lose DZ's offense.

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06-26-2013, 08:20 PM
  #902
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You guys haven't watched Shattenkirk much if at all if you think McDonagh is that superior to him. I think McD is better but it is certainly not by much.

Agree. Not light years as some are suggesting. McD is better but Shattenkirk is pretty darn good.

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06-26-2013, 08:21 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Is he good defensively?
He's not Patrice Bergeron, but he won't absolutely murder you. He's not really top 6 produced though, he adds depth punch.

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06-26-2013, 08:21 PM
  #904
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Is anybody as annoyed as I am at the fact that they see so many "Marc Staal proposals" and discussions about trades in this entire forum?
Equally annoying is seeing how many accounts the guy has on here which he uses to announce that he will be 100% leaving in 2015. I mean, we get it Marc.

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06-26-2013, 08:22 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
There are a solid 8-10 moments in that video that make me want to snap my monitor in half. The fact that it opens with 2 clips of him diving really says it all. That's not toughness.
all players dive.....

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06-26-2013, 08:22 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by EpicDing View Post
This may all be true, but right now McDonagh is better, and he will be in the future. We don't need 2 #1 LDs. We need to trade from a position of strength to fill a hole. That's what this is. The way I see it, we trade either DZ or Staal, and I think we can get more for Staal, plus we can't afford to lose DZ's offense.

Come playoffs I want to have Staal on 1st pairing and McD on 2nd (or vice versa). It makes shutting down other team's top lines that much easier. Depth on the back end is a good thing.

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06-26-2013, 08:23 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I would trade Dz much quicker than Staal and he would bring back something good as well
Oh, absolutely. Del Zotto's offensive upside is much larger than Staal's, but Staal to me will always be a superior defensive player. I also prefer Staal's size to Del Zotto's. Not that Del zotto isn't a good player, because he is, but if it came down to having two move at least one of the two, it's Del Zotto AINEC for me, honestly.

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06-26-2013, 08:24 PM
  #908
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all players dive.....
Well, I disagree. But at the very least not with the same frequency. All players also don't jump players with visors on, stick their fingers in opposing players faces, etc.

I like him when he is actually playing hockey. The rest of the sideshow garbage is a disgrace, in my opinion.

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06-26-2013, 08:28 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Come playoffs I want to have Staal on 1st pairing and McD on 2nd (or vice versa). It makes shutting down other team's top lines that much easier. Depth on the back end is a good thing.
We have depth on the back end though. Even without Staal we probably have a top 7 or so D corps in the league. Somethin has to give on the left side, and my nomination would be Staal.

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06-26-2013, 08:28 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by JC704 View Post
Defensively, it's clearly McDonagh. Offensively, I think Shattenkirk is superior at the moment. Most people knew McDonagh had limited offensive upside and that he would essentially be a Ryan Suter-lite kind of player. I think McDonagh's defensive upside still trumps Shattenkirk's more overall game, but it's incredibly close. Close enough that I wouldn't say McDonagh is a full lightyear superior to Shattenkirk. I think $4.25-$4.75 million on a 3/4 year deal (which is about $500k more than what Staal got on his 2nd deal) is a good target. If he ends up for signing less than $4.5, I think that is a HUGE steal. IMHO.
McDonagh stomps Shattenkirk in terms of defensive play. I guess I'm going off on the PMD I think he can become when he's more encouraged to join the rush. If his offense develops and he scores 40-50 points and becomes a weapon on the PP, he will definitely be much better than Shat.

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06-26-2013, 08:29 PM
  #911
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I don't see how Canes can afford Marc Staal. If Staalsy hits free agency Canes will have lots of money tied up to other players. 8+ mill to Eric Staal, 7 mill for Semin, 6 mill for Jordan Staal, just under 6 mill for Skinner, 4 mill for Gleason, 6.3 mill for Ward and Falk will require a payday too.
I think right now is important to them. They need a top 4 D on a sweetheart contract ASAP.

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06-26-2013, 08:29 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Come playoffs I want to have Staal on 1st pairing and McD on 2nd (or vice versa). It makes shutting down other team's top lines that much easier. Depth on the back end is a good thing.
I agree with this logic. If we can rotate sending Staal/McDonagh out there to shut down the Ovechkins of the world, it makes things a whole lot easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicDing View Post
This may all be true, but right now McDonagh is better, and he will be in the future. We don't need 2 #1 LDs. We need to trade from a position of strength to fill a hole. That's what this is. The way I see it, we trade either DZ or Staal, and I think we can get more for Staal, plus we can't afford to lose DZ's offense.
I disagree with this. Staal/McDonagh as the better player is debatable and both arguments can bring great points. I just really feel since Staal has battled a few injuries over the last two seasons, a lot of fans have forgotten just how great and important he CAN be. I'm just going to agree to disagree here.

The one thing I will agree to is that if Staal HAS to be moved, I want a big-time established Top 6 Winger in return. Ex: I'd much rather go to Anaheim and offer Staal for Ryan than Carolina and offer Staal for the 5th pick + or Skinner (Not completely sold on him as the elite Winger we need).

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06-26-2013, 08:30 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
all players dive.....
im not sure ive ever seen Jaromir Jagr dive...

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06-26-2013, 08:32 PM
  #914
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Why would anyone trade Staal for the #5 pick with the way the Rangers lack of success drafting in the 1st round?

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06-26-2013, 08:34 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Why would anyone trade Staal for the #5 pick with the way the Rangers lack of success drafting in the 1st round?
well they did have 12th overall and messed that up pretty bad in 2003 so it is possible that they can mess it up that bad if they picked 5th overall

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06-26-2013, 08:34 PM
  #916
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Marc Staal is an elite defensive defenseman. I have absolutely no interest in trading him.

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06-26-2013, 08:37 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Why would anyone trade Staal for the #5 pick with the way the Rangers lack of success drafting in the 1st round?
yeah, all those 5th overall picks theyve had over the years, all screwed up

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06-26-2013, 08:39 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
yeah, all those 5th overall picks theyve had over the years, all screwed up
well they did draft Montoya with 6th overall and that turned out to be great... i wonder if they can screw that up twice

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06-26-2013, 08:40 PM
  #919
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I can't believe people want to trade Staal for a maybe no matter what his ceiling could be . Why wouldn't u want a proven forward in return for a top shut down dman?

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06-26-2013, 08:40 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
well they did draft Montoya with 6th overall and that turned out to be great... i wonder if they can screw that up twice
I'm sorry I forgot that the exact same staff that drafted him is currently working for the Rangers

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06-26-2013, 08:41 PM
  #921
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Is this teams defensive depth as good as some make it out to be? An injury to any of the top 6 can get scary


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06-26-2013, 08:48 PM
  #922
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Marc Staal is an elite defensive defenseman. I have absolutely no interest in trading him.

This.

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06-26-2013, 08:48 PM
  #923
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Is this teams defensive depth as good as some make it out to be? An injury to any of the top 6 can get scary

Assuming we get McBain in a Staal trade and/or Blum and retain Eminger, we have 3 OK defensemen (Eminger, Blum, and Ilrath if necessary) waiting in the wings. That's pretty decent depth to me.

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06-26-2013, 08:50 PM
  #924
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I have posted this in the past but I will do it again.

Not sure Jim Nill would go for it...

Del Zotto, Bourque and Niemi for Oleksiak and Brett Ritchie.

Oleksiak is a defenseman that possesses a really nice blend of size, physicality and outstanding puck skills. While much has been said of his size and physical side, what is most impressive about Oleksiak is his superb agility and athleticism.

He could show a little bit more vigor and truculence in his game given his size. Its a little bit tough to get a rise out of him most of the time. Potential: #2 defenseman, like Victor Hedman

Ritchie is a big winger that moves well and has very good offensive instincts. Can use his body effectively when he has the puck on his stick. Has a good shot that can sneak up on goaltenders. Sort of a Jekyll and Hyde type player in his young career due to injuries. The dedicated Ritchie can be a force at both ends and exhibit big physicality and quality puck control. The casual Ritchie can often disappear for long stretches and stick to the edges of the rink. If his determination and work rate stay as high as they were during the second half of the 2010-11 season, Ritchie could be a fairly dominant player otherwise, he could be a fairly dormant player.

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06-26-2013, 08:51 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Why would anyone trade Staal for the #5 pick with the way the Rangers lack of success drafting in the 1st round?
There's that too!

However, there's no evidence behind the assumption that Staal truly wants to play with his brothers--who have already won--more than he wants to win a Stanley Cup. The Rangers are a better team over the next couple of years with Marc. I don't think management is going to trade the present for the future at this time.

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