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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: SCF, end. Trades, begin.

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Old
06-26-2013, 09:52 PM
  #926
Championship*
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I have posted this in the past but I will do it again.

Not sure Jim Nill would go for it...

Del Zotto, Bourque and Niemi for Oleksiak and Brett Ritchie.

Oleksiak is a defenseman that possesses a really nice blend of size, physicality and outstanding puck skills. While much has been said of his size and physical side, what is most impressive about Oleksiak is his superb agility and athleticism.

He could show a little bit more vigor and truculence in his game given his size. Its a little bit tough to get a rise out of him most of the time. Potential: #2 defenseman, like Victor Hedman

Ritchie is a big winger that moves well and has very good offensive instincts. Can use his body effectively when he has the puck on his stick. Has a good shot that can sneak up on goaltenders. Sort of a Jekyll and Hyde type player in his young career due to injuries. The dedicated Ritchie can be a force at both ends and exhibit big physicality and quality puck control. The casual Ritchie can often disappear for long stretches and stick to the edges of the rink. If his determination and work rate stay as high as they were during the second half of the 2010-11 season, Ritchie could be a fairly dominant player otherwise, he could be a fairly dormant player.
Couldn't be more horrendous.

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06-26-2013, 09:52 PM
  #927
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I would try to get Skinner + mcbain for staal than sign Mason Raymond. Defense takes a step back (though still very good) but the offense really improves and I'd still rather trade del Zotto 1st

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06-26-2013, 09:53 PM
  #928
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Del Zotto isn't being traded for futures. He'll go for a top 6 forward only.

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06-26-2013, 09:54 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by EpicDing View Post
Assuming we get McBain in a Staal trade and/or Blum and retain Eminger, we have 3 OK defensemen (Eminger, Blum, and Ilrath if necessary) waiting in the wings. That's pretty decent depth to me.
With all due respect to McBain, the trade-off from Staal to McBain would be gigantic for this team as currently constructed.

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06-26-2013, 09:54 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by EpicDing View Post
Assuming we get McBain in a Staal trade and/or Blum and retain Eminger, we have 3 OK defensemen (Eminger, Blum, and Ilrath if necessary) waiting in the wings. That's pretty decent depth to me.
I agree that, should a trade happen, a defenseman needs to be a part of the return if one can't be acquired through FA

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06-26-2013, 10:02 PM
  #931
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Couldn't be more horrendous.
coming from you that means a lot but not sure I remember ever reading something from you that caught my attention.

Trading a defensemen who has made no real improvements over the course of 4 years for a hulking defensemen who can move and a potential power forward is terrible idea...but let's trade Marc Staal for a pick and a below average dman...make's so much more sense.

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06-26-2013, 10:04 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by JC704 View Post
With all due respect to McBain, the trade-off from Staal to McBain would be gigantic for this team as currently constructed.
I don't think it would be too bad. We'd still have an above average defence, plus a young player on an ELC contributing on offence.

By the way, if the front office can **** a a top 5 pick in this draft, there's no hope for the organization's future.

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06-26-2013, 10:09 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
coming from you that means a lot but not sure I remember ever reading something from you that caught my attention.

Trading a defensemen who has made no real improvements over the course of 4 years for a hulking defensemen who can move and a potential power forward is terrible idea...but let's trade Marc Staal for a pick and a below average dman...make's so much more sense.
They are never trading a 40 point D-man for a guy who has played a total of 16 NHL games. Especially when we already have McIlrath in the system.

You realize that Del Zotto is better than Oleskiak right? Obviously not. The Rangers don't improve AT ALL from that trade.

We get it. You like tough guys. That's not a realistic trade. At all. Not happening.

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06-26-2013, 10:09 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
coming from you that means a lot but not sure I remember ever reading something from you that caught my attention.

Trading a defensemen who has made no real improvements over the course of 4 years for a hulking defensemen who can move and a potential power forward is terrible idea...but let's trade Marc Staal for a pick and a below average dman...make's so much more sense.
No real improvement over 4 years? Wait,...what? Coming from you Orr Nightmare, its the usual, mindless bs trade proposals.

Del Zotto had one bad year. ONE. And at 20 years old. He has put up 37, 11, 41, and 21 points in 4 seasons. The 11 point season he was demoted after 47 games. This past 21 point season was in a shortened year. He was on pace for 40+ again. Sounds like a player on the rise to me. And he is 23 years old. And he signed a team friendly contract that will allow us to re-sign others. I don't even know why we are entertaining trading this player. I know we need top 6 wingers but it would be flat out stupid to deal him at this point. AV wants his defensemen to get involved more in his system. MDZ could post 50+ points next year.

So yeah, your trade proposal for potential and maybe's is indeed horrendous.

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06-26-2013, 10:10 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by EpicDing View Post
I don't think it would be too bad. We'd still have an above average defence, plus a young player on an ELC contributing on offence.

By the way, if the front office can **** a a top 5 pick in this draft, there's no hope for the organization's future.
I remember when Pavel Brendl was the next Jagr and Jamie Lundmark was the next Yzerman and when Montoya was the next Patrick Roy and when alexander diagle was the next Mario.

Every year there are all these high impact prospects and some are stars, some suck and some are ok...you want to trade a guy who was playing the best hockey of his career before a puck hit him in the face for McBain and I though Sather was bad.

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06-26-2013, 10:13 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I remember when Pavel Brendl was the next Jagr and Jamie Lundmark was the next Yzerman and when Montoya was the next Patrick Roy and when alexander diagle was the next Mario.

Every year there are all these high impact prospects and some are stars, some suck and some are ok...you want to trade a guy who was playing the best hockey of his career before a puck hit him in the face for McBain and I though Sather was bad.
This thought process is essentially EXACTLY what you are doing with your "proposal"

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06-26-2013, 10:13 PM
  #937
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So from Carolina fans they would move mcbain and Skinner for Staal. Then we could sign Mason Raymond for another LW for the 3rd line and Lapierre for 3c shutdown line. Kreider - Stepan - Nash. Skinner-Brassard-Callahan. Hagelin-Lapierre-Raymond. Pyatt-Boyle-Dorsett. Mcdonagh/Girardi, Moore/Stralman, Del Zotto/Mcbain, Eminger.. I'd be all for that team

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06-26-2013, 10:14 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
They are never trading a 40 point D-man for a guy who has played a total of 16 NHL games. Especially when we already have McIlrath in the system.

You realize that Del Zotto is better than Oleskiak right? Obviously not. The Rangers don't improve AT ALL from that trade.

We get it. You like tough guys. That's not a realistic trade. At all. Not happening.
Is Del Zotto better than Hedman?...this kid can be just as good and maybe even better. Ritchie has 41 goals and didn't put the effort in half the time. I like to win hockey games and this time will not beat the elite teams with #4 sliding on his ass like a clown and making terrible reads...but I like goons...I don't know better

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06-26-2013, 10:14 PM
  #939
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McBain + Skinner is nothing to sniff at. Worry about contract/concussions though.

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06-26-2013, 10:15 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
This thought process is essentially EXACTLY what you are doing with your "proposal"
That's the best part of all of this. Talk about Jekyll and Hyde.

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06-26-2013, 10:15 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I remember when Pavel Brendl was the next Jagr and Jamie Lundmark was the next Yzerman and when Montoya was the next Patrick Roy and when alexander diagle was the next Mario.

Every year there are all these high impact prospects and some are stars, some suck and some are ok...you want to trade a guy who was playing the best hockey of his career before a puck hit him in the face for McBain and I though Sather was bad.
You act like McBain is the centerpiece here. It's the 5th overall. There's almost no risk IN THIS DRAFT at that position. At best we can get Drouin, at worst Nichuskin or Jones. Pretty good chance there if you ask me. Nichuskin seems to be the kind of player everyone says we need. Any of them will contribute right away.

Also, in response to Skinner, I don't think he's right for us. We need to get bigger in the top 6, and he certainly doesn't do that.

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06-26-2013, 10:15 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Is Del Zotto better than Hedman?...this kid can be just as good and maybe even better. Ritchie has 41 goals and didn't put the effort in half the time. I like to win hockey games and this time will not beat the elite teams with #4 sliding on his ass like a clown and making terrible reads...but I like goons...I don't know better
Oleksiak isn't EVER going to be Victor Hedman. Ritchie had 41 goals IN THE OHL.

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06-26-2013, 10:19 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
McBain + Skinner is nothing to sniff at. Worry about contract/concussions though.
Well Skinner makes 5.9 but we would subtract 4m from Staal going the other way then add Mcbain and we only add about 4m for our top LW and 3rd RHD

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06-26-2013, 10:19 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Is Del Zotto better than Hedman?...this kid can be just as good and maybe even better. Ritchie has 41 goals and didn't put the effort in half the time. I like to win hockey games and this time will not beat the elite teams with #4 sliding on his ass like a clown and making terrible reads...but I like goons...I don't know better
With each post you discredit yourself by your own doing. Now we're bringing Hedman into the debate? So wait, let me get this straight. We want a player who could potentially be like Hedman? Hedman who is just a year younger than Del Zotto and has not put up 30 points yet, let alone 40? And his team not being a playoff team is absolutely no excuse with the fire power they have in their forward group.

You are right, you don't know better.

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Old
06-26-2013, 10:21 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Oleksiak isn't EVER going to be Victor Hedman. Ritchie had 41 goals IN THE OHL.
By that thinking we should be able to acquire a 40+ point defenseman for Skjei and Thomas.

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06-26-2013, 10:21 PM
  #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I have posted this in the past but I will do it again.

Not sure Jim Nill would go for it...

Del Zotto, Bourque and Niemi for Oleksiak and Brett Ritchie.

Oleksiak is a defenseman that possesses a really nice blend of size, physicality and outstanding puck skills. While much has been said of his size and physical side, what is most impressive about Oleksiak is his superb agility and athleticism.

He could show a little bit more vigor and truculence in his game given his size. It’s a little bit tough to get a rise out of him most of the time. Potential: #2 defenseman, like Victor Hedman

Ritchie is a big winger that moves well and has very good offensive instincts. Can use his body effectively when he has the puck on his stick. Has a good shot that can sneak up on goaltenders. Sort of a Jekyll and Hyde type player in his young career due to injuries. The dedicated Ritchie can be a force at both ends and exhibit big physicality and quality puck control. The casual Ritchie can often disappear for long stretches and stick to the edges of the rink. If his determination and work rate stay as high as they were during the second half of the 2010-11 season, Ritchie could be a fairly dominant player – otherwise, he could be a fairly dormant player.
I was originally very in favor of this when I realized Ritchie and Oleksiak haven't played in the NHL yet. Some dumb reason made me believe Oleksiak's rookie year was this year. No way.

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Old
06-26-2013, 10:22 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
No real improvement over 4 years? Wait,...what? Coming from you Orr Nightmare, its the usual, mindless bs trade proposals.

Del Zotto had one bad year. ONE. And at 20 years old. He has put up 37, 11, 41, and 21 points in 4 seasons. The 11 point season he was demoted after 47 games. This past 21 point season was in a shortened year. He was on pace for 40+ again. Sounds like a player on the rise to me. And he is 23 years old. And he signed a team friendly contract that will allow us to re-sign others. I don't even know why we are entertaining trading this player. I know we need top 6 wingers but it would be flat out stupid to deal him at this point. AV wants his defensemen to get involved more in his system. MDZ could post 50+ points next year.

So yeah, your trade proposal for potential and maybe's is indeed horrendous.
Del Zotto has had 1 good year, 1 ok year and 2 bad years.

This is the numbers that matter the most to me:


2011-2012 Rangers 20 2 8 10 -4 12 1 0 1 35 5.7
2012-2013 Rangers 12 1 1 2 -3 8 0 0 0 17 5.9
NHL Totals 32 3 9 12 -7 20 1 0 1 52 5.8


32 games 12 points and a minus 7 in the playoffs...nobody loved Del Zotto more than Torts...he could make mistake after mistake and this kid always found the ice...maybe it was because we didn't have the depth but he is suppose to be this offensive whiz and all I saw was him ruin power plays...his defense is average at best...

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06-26-2013, 10:23 PM
  #948
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Why would anyone trade Staal for the #5 pick with the way the Rangers lack of success drafting in the 1st round?
A top5 pick is something idfferent than a mid-round or late-round pick.

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Old
06-26-2013, 10:23 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
That would be a steal for the Rangers. Too much of one. Jim Nill is very smart, unlike Joe Nieu. Niemi isn't signed by NYR anymore by the way.
Christ, more craziness.

Two unproven players for a 40+ point defenseman who is 23 years old. And that would be a steal for us? Dallas would be laughing all the way to the bank. Thankfully you two are not running the rangers.

That's like trading Zubov for crap all over again.

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06-26-2013, 10:24 PM
  #950
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Skinner would add skill but absolutely no size. It's a legit problem this forward corps has. No size

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