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McDonagh and the 1st overall

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Old
06-26-2013, 06:22 PM
  #101
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
Elite players average less than a ppg? Since when? And Im not debating the Kane Vs McDonagh thing because I agree with you that McD is not worth Kane however the term elite is becoming so over used its a joke.

Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin. Those are elite guys. Kane is not on par with them. He is a star in his own right but as of right now is a step below "elite".
IMO the phrase "elite player" should be reserved for those who will most likely make it to the HHOF. You can be a great player but lets not call every single top player on every team "elite". On average 3 players a year make it to the HHOF with at least 1 of them being someone who retired long before the 5 year wait period.

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06-26-2013, 07:17 PM
  #102
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by CaptainCally View Post
Clueless post. McDonagh has got great potential still he has 40+ point potential. He is really good with pinching in and making nice plays. Problem is our former coach preferred Girardi on the point for some reason. Girardi is a warrior and you'll know he'll try to shoot it as soon as he gets it on the PP. I guess that was whay Torts liked about him. Problem is he has no offensive awareness and his slapper is pretty mediocre. While McDonagh has got great skating and creativity. Some of the goals and the plays he makes are really good.


Coaches have their favorites, that doesn't mean those other players that don't get a chance aren't good or better.

So Girardi >> McDonagh in terms of offensive ability I guess since he got more PP time, am I doing this right?
Girardi on the pp was something none of us understood. We were hoping he would give mcdonagh some significant pp time but he never did.

I think Mcdonagh can be a 40 point elite shut down defenseman. I don't see him putting up much more than that offensively but, the kid has a skating ability that will always make him a threat to score or create a scoring chance.

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06-26-2013, 07:19 PM
  #103
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
NYR need to add big time. I'm on board with those who feel Stepan would need to be in the package, although IMO McDonagh is being massively oversold in the OP.

How is he bordering on becoming an elite defenseman, and where do you see elements of a potential offensive side? The Rangers sure could have used some of this untapped scoring talent when they basically couldn't score a goal the last several seasons.

McDonagh is a top 4 shutdown dman and has more or less plateau'd and is not worth being mentioned in the context of a one for one trade for the 1st OA. And I know that's going to come off as flaming NYR fans but I feel that's absolutely the truth.

Sather definitely hosed Gainey in filching him for Gomez but there is no mistaking him for a franchise defenceman.
So every player plateaus at Mcdonaghs age?

While he is not a franchise defenseman, he is most definitely a top pairing defenseman and a damn good one at that.

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06-26-2013, 07:27 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
And I would rather have Taylor Hall than any player on your team. And I am guessing 30 GM's would agree. The fact that you wouldn't trade a good player for him tells me pretty much all I need to know about your hockey philosophy. I cant say for sure about Nuge or Yak yet but I think they will also fit in that category soon. Its just too early to say with 100% confidence.
You need a core of talent to win. Our core all arrived in those 3 unsuccessful years you are mocking. I would bet the farm in a couple years you wont be so pleased with yourself and your team
And your hockey philosophy is any better? Tank for picks? That's the right way to build? The Rangers have built a core while making the playoffs in every season except 2010 when it came down to the last game of the season to do so.

In a couple of years, we won't be pleased with our team? Stick to watching the Oilers, because I can tell you right now that I watch A LOT MORE Oilers hockey than you watch Rangers hockey. This post speaks volumes to my statement.

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06-26-2013, 07:44 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
So every player plateaus at Mcdonaghs age?

While he is not a franchise defenseman, he is most definitely a top pairing defenseman and a damn good one at that.
This I can absolutely agree with. He IS a top pairing dman. It's debatable whether he's a true #1 yet but he could definitely get there. However, I think the general consensus is that he's not worth the 1st OA, regardless of his "upside" and how much the Rangers love him.

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06-26-2013, 11:29 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
Like Alexander Daigle? OR Erik Johnson? Or Chris Phillips, Patrick Stefan, Rick DiPietro, Marc Andre Fleury. That is 5 within the last 17 years (excluding Daigle since he was 93). Just about 30% Hardly a guarantee. How many of them are borderline elite, let alone elite? None. Or we can go back to 93, the last 20 years and include Jovanovski and Daigle as 7 within the last 20 years, over 33% or 1/3rd. Or Hamrlik in 1992. Thats 8 in 21.

1/3rd of 1st overalls are not elite players (Dipietro is debatable as "elite" as he was a great goalie before his knees blew out completely). Most never even reached "star" status, let alone elite. If a guarantee is 66% of the time for you then I you must get fleeced by a lot of salesmen.

This is a great demonstration of how statistics can be very misleading either intentionally or out of lack of knowledge. If you want to make a realistic comparison remove the goaltenders and defense from your list and then do the math. I think everyone here realizes that taking goalies or defense with the first overall is not very smart. Even though Jones has been hyped all year it probably wont happen again this year. Most Gm's have figured out that those 2 positions are harder to project going forward.

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06-26-2013, 11:32 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
And your hockey philosophy is any better? Tank for picks? That's the right way to build? The Rangers have built a core while making the playoffs in every season except 2010 when it came down to the last game of the season to do so.

In a couple of years, we won't be pleased with our team? Stick to watching the Oilers, because I can tell you right now that I watch A LOT MORE Oilers hockey than you watch Rangers hockey. This post speaks volumes to my statement.
Worked for Pittsburgh and Chicago in recent memory. Staying at the level of mediocrity does not win cups. I don't see what you watching Oilers hockey has to do with needing talent to win

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06-27-2013, 12:16 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
Worked for Pittsburgh and Chicago in recent memory. Staying at the level of mediocrity does not win cups. I don't see what you watching Oilers hockey has to do with needing talent to win
Yeah, suck for years and build up first overall picks. Amazing.

Promoting a losing mentality is a solid way to run an organization.

I'd rather "stay in mediocrity" than pull the ******** tankjobs that teams like the Oilers and Penguins did.

The Hawks problem was Bill Wirtz. Amazing how after he passes, they win 2 cups in 4 years, isn't it?

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06-27-2013, 12:18 AM
  #109
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McDonagh is a little overrated to me.

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06-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #110
EE AY HOCKEY CONNECT
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
It is looking like McKinnon may be first overall.
But AVs still will need a franchise anchor at LD, since they have some nice guys at RD.

Ryan McDonagh, as to overall defensive game, is superior bordering elite with upside to develop an offensive game.

McD is the perfect fit. AVs have to determine if they keep McK and deal a C, what return, how good a D or 2 can they swing?

Or they can deal him to Rangers, who would gamble on how much of a franchise player Nate can become.

Right now, McD already IS a franchise calibre D.

So I say it's McD for McK w/+s on both sides resulting in a small net add by Colorado.

Thoughts?

And yeah, I'm sure there are a few Col fans who want not 1, but 10 McD for that pick, and yeah, I'm sure there are some Ranger fans who will not deal McD for almost anyone.

That said, please address your opinion of value. What is added to both sides? Who pays more? and why...
I swear you have the absolute worst proposals. I know slats can rip people off but c'mon. These are awful!

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Old
06-27-2013, 12:31 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
Elite players average less than a ppg? Since when? And Im not debating the Kane Vs McDonagh thing because I agree with you that McD is not worth Kane however the term elite is becoming so over used its a joke.

Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin. Those are elite guys. Kane is not on par with them. He is a star in his own right but as of right now is a step below "elite".
Patrick Kane is absolutely a star player, but perhaps you're right, he may not be elite. Regardless, still a much better and more valuable player than McDonagh. Which is the point I was making across. Rangers fans overrate their own players and then get pissed off when fans of other teams call them overrated. There is really no way in hell McDonagh is on par with Kane, not even remotely close. That's just asinine to suggest.

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06-27-2013, 12:32 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Yeah, suck for years and build up first overall picks. Amazing.

Promoting a losing mentality is a solid way to run an organization.

I'd rather "stay in mediocrity" than pull the ******** tankjobs that teams like the Oilers and Penguins did.

The Hawks problem was Bill Wirtz. Amazing how after he passes, they win 2 cups in 4 years, isn't it?
Yeah who needs a stanley cup (2009 Penguins) as long as you can stroke your ego and take pride that your team is mediocre because they made absurd decisions to pay for past their prime FAs like Gomez, Drury and Richards instead of rebuilding for top end talent.

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06-27-2013, 12:39 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Yeah, suck for years and build up first overall picks. Amazing.

Promoting a losing mentality is a solid way to run an organization.

I'd rather "stay in mediocrity" than pull the ******** tankjobs that teams like the Oilers and Penguins did.

The Hawks problem was Bill Wirtz. Amazing how after he passes, they win 2 cups in 4 years, isn't it?
Hell, I'd rather win cups. I was under he impression that was primary goal. Is it really to be a pretty good, not great, franchise for eternity?

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06-27-2013, 12:46 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
The Hawks problem was Bill Wirtz. Amazing how after he passes, they win 2 cups in 4 years, isn't it?
Bill Wirtz was a disaster but without his ineptitude, they wouldn't have their core players (Kane, Toews) in the first place. And they still missed the playoffs the yr after.

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