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What did Chicago do to get back to the SCF that the Penguins didn't?

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Old
06-26-2013, 11:07 AM
  #376
MtlPenFan
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
When you score 1 goal in your first two games, it's time to make changes to your top lines.

That is DB biggest fault. He thinks if he just sticks with something, it's bound to work out eventually.

The most irritating thing is, the Kunitz Crosby Dupuis line has never proven they can breakthrough in tight checking playoff games. Not once, ever, have they proven that.

I guess you just have to laugh at the absurdity of it all. Keep hoping the same thing that doesn't work, finally will.

What could possibly go wrong?
Indeed. The only mixing he did was the typical moves he'd make after a PK or PP where the lines are a little jumbled. Other than that, the series may has well have taken place in March for all the urgency he showed with his lines.

Right now, Iginla's usage against Boston will forever define DB for me until he truly changes, or is flat out fired. This isn't to say that a change to RW with Sid would have changed things because personally, I think Iginla just looked flat out bad regardless of which side of the ice he found himself, but the fact that he wasn't TRIED while all else was failing was moronic to say the least.

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06-26-2013, 01:09 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Indeed. The only mixing he did was the typical moves he'd make after a PK or PP where the lines are a little jumbled. Other than that, the series may has well have taken place in March for all the urgency he showed with his lines.

Right now, Iginla's usage against Boston will forever define DB for me until he truly changes, or is flat out fired. This isn't to say that a change to RW with Sid would have changed things because personally, I think Iginla just looked flat out bad regardless of which side of the ice he found himself, but the fact that he wasn't TRIED while all else was failing was moronic to say the least.
Oh well at least with Iggy I'll always have my memories of being ill as hell laying in bed up way past my bedtime when the trade was announced, and you going from being confused as hell to spooning with your Shero voodoo doll(s).

It's all we really got from the trade so...

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06-26-2013, 02:21 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Q. waited 4 games too long to do it, but his saving grace was that Chicago had managed to win 1 of the first 3 games, where one win was going to tie the series.

He should have never broken up that duo to begin with after it was so successful in the LA series, but there was yet another case of a coach trying to be too clever for his own good, and it took the real possibility of losing the series for common sense to reign supreme.

The only way to defend DB in this instance at least is that there's a huge difference between uniting your best Center and best Winger and uniting your two best Centers, but it's still a move that should have been made.
I don't know if this is just an excuse, but Q hinted that Bickell was injured and he didn't want to give him that many minutes early in the Boston series so he split up the lines. Now obviously he could have kept Kane and Toews together but that particular line wasn't used due to Bickell having a nagging injury.

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06-26-2013, 02:50 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I don't know if this is just an excuse, but Q hinted that Bickell was injured and he didn't want to give him that many minutes early in the Boston series so he split up the lines. Now obviously he could have kept Kane and Toews together but that particular line wasn't used due to Bickell having a nagging injury.
Yeah, I remember watching the interview when he said exactly that, and I remember thinking at the time that it sounded like a very Bylsma-esque excuse for not doing the right thing because you wanted to show everyone how clever you are.

Personally, I think it was yet another case of a coach believing Chara was actually a Cyborg sent back in time to kill Toews & Kane, and had to have "balance" at all costs even though it was clearly not working, and the rest of the hockey world was questioning his very sanity.

Like I said, the difference was the 'Hawks managed to win their first game, so when he finally did the right thing, the series was only 2-1 and well within reach.

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06-26-2013, 02:53 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Yeah, I remember watching the interview when he said exactly that, and I remember thinking at the time that it sounded like a very Bylsma-esque excuse for not doing the right thing because you wanted to show everyone how clever you are.

Personally, I think it was yet another case of a coach believing Chara was actually a Cyborg sent back in time to kill Toews & Kane, and had to have "balance" at all costs even though it was clearly not working, and the rest of the hockey world was questioning his very sanity.

Like I said, the difference was the 'Hawks managed to win their first game, so when he finally did the right thing, the series was only 2-1 and well within reach.
Yeah good points. Agreed for sure.

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06-26-2013, 03:36 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I'm confused. From your post history, you claim to be a Rangers fan. In the past 2 days, you have criticized Crosby and Malkin. So I think it's safe to say you're a troll.
He is.

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06-26-2013, 03:44 PM
  #382
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Friendly Reminder from the Desk of Joe:

Don't feed the troll, guys. Just report it and we'll handle it. Sometimes folks are more clever in how they do it, playing on people's recent emotional reactions, but there's been an obvious pattern lately. If you see someone making comments like that in multiple places, report it.

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06-26-2013, 06:56 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
When you score 1 goal in your first two games, it's time to make changes to your top lines.

That is DB biggest fault. He thinks if he just sticks with something, it's bound to work out eventually.

The most irritating thing is, the Kunitz Crosby Dupuis line has never proven they can breakthrough in tight checking playoff games. Not once, ever, have they proven that.

I guess you just have to laugh at the absurdity of it all. Keep hoping the same thing that doesn't work, finally will.

What could possibly go wrong?
The bolded part, arguably more than anything else, continues to frustrate me even now that the season is over, and the mindset behind it will continue to bother me until the day comes when this organization realizes that's not a "playoff line".

It's almost comical. The line produces in February and March, largely against teams who won't even make the playoffs, and suddenly it's "the best line in hockey" and is never, ever broken up even when it registers a single point in a 4-game sweep loss.

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06-26-2013, 08:22 PM
  #384
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I'm with you guys on that one, but there really wasn't some magic bullet. The options were to put an old guy who is slow as hell with Crosby or put Crosby and Malkin together for more time.

Jiggy, I can't agree with what you are saying about putting Crosby and Malkin together. When they are out there together nothing ever happens because the other team just plays keep away - and then our other lines are deprived of anybody who can create offense alone.

Our problem has been and continues to be that apart from Crosby and Malkin absolutely nobody is capable of carrying the play offensively (perhaps Letang?). No other line is capable of entering the zone, establishing a cycle, and creating quality scoring chances again and again...that job is solely on the shoulders of our two best players.

Possessing two of the best players in the league has its upsides but if they are not absolutely playing their best hockey at the same time, we have no chance at winning.

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06-26-2013, 08:26 PM
  #385
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Malkin really needs to carry the puck to be effective. And that isn't going to happen to the same degree with Sid out there with him. Yeah, they don't seem to work stylistically.

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06-26-2013, 09:24 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Florentino Ariza View Post
I'm with you guys on that one, but there really wasn't some magic bullet. The options were to put an old guy who is slow as hell with Crosby or put Crosby and Malkin together for more time.

Jiggy, I can't agree with what you are saying about putting Crosby and Malkin together. When they are out there together nothing ever happens because the other team just plays keep away - and then our other lines are deprived of anybody who can create offense alone.

Our problem has been and continues to be that apart from Crosby and Malkin absolutely nobody is capable of carrying the play offensively (perhaps Letang?). No other line is capable of entering the zone, establishing a cycle, and creating quality scoring chances again and again...that job is solely on the shoulders of our two best players.

Possessing two of the best players in the league has its upsides but if they are not absolutely playing their best hockey at the same time, we have no chance at winning.
Maybe putting BB back with Malkin would of helped, but that is a lot to ask from a young guy. But as you said and I touched on earlier in this thread, if Malkin and Crosby don't do anything, they are sunk. So at least let them help each other.

All I can say is the worst that could of happened with Crosby and Malkin together is they would of gotten swept, and we would of had the same result.

Or maybe those two could of generated a goal or two and maybe of extended the series.

We know the results of not playing them together was a sweep where they scored two goals, so it honestly could not of been any more embarrassing.

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06-26-2013, 09:26 PM
  #387
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Offensive zone faceoff? Crosby/Malkin/Neal on the ice.

Instead, I saw Tyler Kennedy spending more time with Malkin and Neal than any other player in game 4.

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06-26-2013, 09:31 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Offensive zone faceoff? Crosby/Malkin/Neal on the ice.

Instead, I saw Tyler Kennedy spending more time with Malkin and Neal than any other player in game 4.

That's silly. They once had a shift together and didn't score, so why would he ever try it again?

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06-26-2013, 09:37 PM
  #389
Florentino Ariza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Maybe putting BB back with Malkin would of helped, but that is a lot to ask from a young guy. But as you said and I touched on earlier in this thread, if Malkin and Crosby don't do anything, they are sunk. So at least let them help each other.

All I can say is the worst that could of happened with Crosby and Malkin together is they would of gotten swept, and we would of had the same result.

Or maybe those two could of generated a goal or two and maybe of extended the series.

We know the results of not playing them together was a sweep where they scored two goals, so it honestly could not of been any more embarrassing.
In the short term, you're right, the Pens had nothing to lose by putting them together. But I personally think the Penguins have a long-term problem and hopefully Beau Bennett will be part of the solution. He certainly looked good when he was playing.

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06-26-2013, 10:42 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Oh well at least with Iggy I'll always have my memories of being ill as hell laying in bed up way past my bedtime when the trade was announced, and you going from being confused as hell to spooning with your Shero voodoo doll(s).

It's all we really got from the trade so...
Yup, that night was as surreal as it got in terms of a trade. In the end, I was so excited by the idea of one of my favorite players ever FINALLY wearing a Pens uniform, I completely ignored the player father time was turning him into for the past couple of years. I will NEVER do that again.

In a way, I think the Pens actually would have been a better team going into the playoffs without Iginla, or even Morrow for that matter, but I guess we'll never know.

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06-26-2013, 11:16 PM
  #391
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I posted earlier in this thread that I thought the Pens aren't as far away as some of you think. My rationale was drawn from what happened with the Hawks in 2011 and 2012 where they lost against Vancouver and then Phoenix, respectively, in the 1st round. I noted that in both 1st round exits, the Hawks weren't as far away as myself and most other Hawks fans thought they were and lamented about for months on end afterward. Against the howling of most of Blackhawk nation - Stan Bowman stayed the course and only changed a few peripheral things - like bringing in Rozsival as the #6 d-man and picking up Handzus at the deadline.

The main difference was better health going down the stretch of the regular season and into the playoffs - AND really buying into the 5-man unit structure that was backbone of the way they played all season. All season long the players would comment on the 5 guys on the ice had to play as a unit. It seems simplistic - wouldn't every team want to play as a unit? Of course - but it was something that was stressed ALL the time and practiced ALL the time. When they would have a bad defensive game, you could see the gap between the d-men and backchecking forwards was not tight enough and a fire drill would result.

And it was stressed on offense too with the d-man on the puck side pinching to help keep possession in the o-zone while the other d-man and weak side forward adjusted up to cover. It allowed the forwards more chances to force turnovers and create more scoring chances. It also wore down the opponents d-men which also resulted in more turnovers. I knew the Hawks led the league in takeaways this season but I looked it up and the Hawks had 467 whereas the Pens were 29th with only 227.

If I had to pinpoint one thing that made the biggest difference in beating Boston, it was the relentless tracking and attacking of the puck and I think it did wear down Chara and Seidenberg and open up scoring chances that weren't there when the Pens played Boston.

Long story but in summary I think the Pens have the players to win it all, but they have to play a more cohesive team game.

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06-27-2013, 12:07 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Offensive zone faceoff? Crosby/Malkin/Neal on the ice.
No, I'm sorry... We were looking for the 4th line. That's right, the 4th line. Oh well, better luck next time.

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06-27-2013, 05:14 AM
  #393
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No, I'm sorry... We were looking for the 4th line. That's right, the 4th line. Oh well, better luck next time.
Dude, they're next in the rotation.


Dump dump, change. Dump dump, change. You ****ing up the rotation.

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06-27-2013, 07:59 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Florentino Ariza View Post
In the short term, you're right, the Pens had nothing to lose by putting them together. But I personally think the Penguins have a long-term problem and hopefully Beau Bennett will be part of the solution. He certainly looked good when he was playing.
Right and we were discussing the short term. We have had this problem for years and we are all well aware of it. The point was that stacking the lines, even if drastic, would have been better than sitting on our hands and hoping or stubbornly believing the same thing would eventually work.

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