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Trading Up III: Does Anyone Have Incriminating Photos Of Burnaby Joe?

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Old
06-26-2013, 10:14 PM
  #301
Jame
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Originally Posted by Jim Carr's Rug View Post
So you're trading away Miller to move up five spots in the draft and to time travel two years into the future with the development of your 8th pick.

I don't hate it...

However, I suspect the Flyers could add.
I would take a 3rd but would really want Matt Read.
i think there is a lot more value in that, then people realize...

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06-26-2013, 11:29 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Is that what you expect Monahan to be?
Why do you expect Lindholm to be better?

I see Couturier as a much more physical Patrice Bergeron.
Couturier was a better offensive player in the Q as compared to Bergie.

When Couturier gets the top 6 role, he'll be very similar offensively (more goals)
I expect Monahan to be quite similar to this. I expect Lindholm to be a number one center with 90 Point per season upside which I would value way more than what you propose in the trade. I just think Miller is worth a tad bit more if a contract extension is included within the trade.

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06-26-2013, 11:39 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
I expect Monahan to be quite similar to this. I expect Lindholm to be a number one center with 90 Point per season upside which I would value way more than what you propose in the trade. I just think Miller is worth a tad bit more if a contract extension is included within the trade.
ok, well...

so you expect him to be a top 3 scorer in the entire NHL... man, you should draft him #1 overall then....

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06-26-2013, 11:49 PM
  #304
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Miller+ Sekera + 16th for Couts + 11th

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06-26-2013, 11:59 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
ok, well...

so you expect him to be a top 3 scorer in the entire NHL... man, you should draft him #1 overall then....
Yeah, 90 point upside, he didn't say a consistent 90+ scorer. Danny Briere put up 95, he was picked where? 24th.

For one that rants so much about context...

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06-27-2013, 12:02 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
ok, well...

so you expect him to be a top 3 scorer in the entire NHL... man, you should draft him #1 overall then....
Didn't say every season but that IS his upside. Consider Backstrom for a perfect example. Also just to show how much you truly over value Couts...


"or not understanding that the present day couturier would go 2nd overall in this draft"


If anyone disagrees with the ALMIGHTY JAME you are 100% wrong each and every time...You post a lot and make this forum entertaining but sometimes you just search out confrontations and NEVER accept when you are wrong or someone has a different idea than yourself.

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Old
06-27-2013, 12:03 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Yeah, 90 point upside, he didn't say a consistent 90+ scorer. Danny Briere put up 95, he was picked where? 24th.

For one that rants so much about context...
you might want to put Briere's 95 pt season in context.....

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Old
06-27-2013, 12:06 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Didn't say every season but that IS his upside. Consider Backstrom for a perfect example. Also just to show how much you truly over value Couts...


"or not understanding that the present day couturier would go 2nd overall in this draft"


If anyone disagrees with the ALMIGHTY JAME you are 100% wrong each and every time...You post a lot and make this forum entertaining but sometimes you just search out confrontations and NEVER accept when you are wrong or someone has a different idea than yourself.
when lindholm scores 90 points i will accept that i was wrong

do me a favor and assume that all my posts end in IMO... to avoid confusion

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Old
06-27-2013, 12:13 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you might want to put Briere's 95 pt season in context.....
I mean, it's valid to argue that the NHL will return to higher scoring averages and more fluid, dynamic offensive play.

It won't happen though. **** the NHL.

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06-27-2013, 03:36 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Is that what you expect Monahan to be?
Why do you expect Lindholm to be better?

I see Couturier as a much more physical Patrice Bergeron.
Couturier was a better offensive player in the Q as compared to Bergie.

When Couturier gets the top 6 role, he'll be very similar offensively (more goals)
Or you know.... Just let Girgensons develop lol.

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06-27-2013, 04:24 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by BananaSquad View Post
Or you know.... Just let Girgensons develop lol.
I don't see how having guys like Girgensons and Larsson means that we shouldn't be interested in Couturier. I mean, I very much like Girgensons and Larsson, but even if the two of them develop properly and become top-notch defensive forwards who can play top six minutes, a guy like Couturier, even if he ends up topping out where he is right now, is still a useful piece who would have a role and meaningful place in the lineup.

Even aside from that, there's the fact that Couturier is much, much, much more established than either Girgensons and Larsson are. Larsson is a few months older than Couturier, and to be fair Girgensons is over a year younger, but Couturier has played over 130 games (including playoffs) in the NHL and Larsson and Girgensons combined have played 1 NHL game. Couturier is much more proven than either Girgensons and Larsson, and has a higher floor than either of them. Furthermore, considering their pedigrees and also their performances as pro players so far, it's pretty reasonable to conclude that Couturier has a higher ceiling than either Girgensons and Larsson do.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:01 AM
  #312
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if this trade is on the table you have to take it - Couturier is what this team needs

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06-27-2013, 09:49 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'm saving some of these comments about Couturier for future use. God forbid a 20 yr old hasn't had a huge offensive season in the NHL yet. Too bad he wasn't sent back to juniors to score eleventy billion points against overmatched kids these last two years, in which case he'd probably be a stud prospect in the eyes of the same people.
It's not that he hasn't had a "huge offensive season", it's that he hasn't had an average one. Guys with elite offensive talent put up good offensive numbers at a young age now. There were seven rookies that matched or exceeded his rookie points total last year in a lockout shortened season, eight more on a point per game basis. Had Couturier been a rookie last season he would have finished in a seven way tie for 25th in goals.

I would love to have him on my team and he's an excellent defensive center, but the reason he isn't putting up elite offensive numbers isn't because of his age or his role, it's because he doesn't have that skillset.

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06-27-2013, 10:00 AM
  #314
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http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/...an-winger.html


Chip Alexander ‏@ice_chip 1m

Canes intrigued by Nichushkin. http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/06/27/299


If he is their guy ... I bet they think they could get him later and would be more willing to trade down

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06-27-2013, 10:10 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLH View Post
It's not that he hasn't had a "huge offensive season", it's that he hasn't had an average one. Guys with elite offensive talent put up good offensive numbers at a young age now. There were seven rookies that matched or exceeded his rookie points total last year in a lockout shortened season, eight more on a point per game basis. Had Couturier been a rookie last season he would have finished in a seven way tie for 25th in goals.

I would love to have him on my team and he's an excellent defensive center, but the reason he isn't putting up elite offensive numbers isn't because of his age or his role, it's because he doesn't have that skillset.
No, it's because he's playing with a revolving door of mediocre wingers in an out-and-out defensive role on a team whose scorers heavily regressed to the mean. Max Talbot was his most common linemate for crying out loud.

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06-27-2013, 10:11 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by BananaSquad View Post
Or you know.... Just let Girgensons develop lol.
or have both, and be a dominant puck possession team across multiple lines... you know... like a contender?

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:15 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by BananaSquad View Post
Or you know.... Just let Girgensons develop lol.
If all three of them developed we would have one dominant shutdown line that can put the puck in the net.

IF


It's still enticing to think about...

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06-27-2013, 10:15 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by MLH View Post
It's not that he hasn't had a "huge offensive season", it's that he hasn't had an average one. Guys with elite offensive talent put up good offensive numbers at a young age now.There were seven rookies that matched or exceeded his rookie points total last year in a lockout shortened season, eight more on a point per game basis. Had Couturier been a rookie last season he would have finished in a seven way tie for 25th in goals.

I would love to have him on my team and he's an excellent defensive center, but the reason he isn't putting up elite offensive numbers isn't because of his age or his role, it's because he doesn't have that skillset.
That's just completely wrong...

you're saying that Conacher and Gallagher outscored Couturier because they have a better skillset... and that's obviously why they went 5th round - undrafted....

it definitely has nothing to do with offensive vs defensive zone starts, QoC, Linemates, and role

holy jeezus.... someone make it stop...

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:19 AM
  #319
MLH
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
No, it's because he's playing with a revolving door of mediocre wingers in an out-and-out defensive role on a team whose scorers heavily regressed to the mean. Max Talbot was his most common linemate for crying out loud.
That's why his offensive numbers were atrocious. I'm not saying he's going to be a ten goal scorer for the rest of his career, but he is not and will never be an elite offensive player at the NHL level. He's going to be an excellent defensive center that ships in offensively.

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06-27-2013, 10:19 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
If all three of them developed we would have one dominant shutdown line that can put the puck in the net.

IF


It's still enticing to think about...
or multiple dominant 2 way lines, that compete for a cup

Couturier line = Bergeron line
Hodgson/Grigorenko line = Krejci line
Girgensons/Larsson = Marchand line

sprinkle in : Ennis, Stafford, Vanek, Leino, Foligno, Kaleta, Flynn Armia, Kea, Catenacci, etc

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:22 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by MLH View Post
That's why his offensive numbers were atrocious. I'm not saying he's going to be a ten goal scorer for the rest of his career, but he is not and will never be an elite offensive player at the NHL level. He's going to be an excellent defensive center that ships in offensively.
there is a wide gap between "elite offensive center" and "chips in offensive"

Patrice Bergeron falls in the gap, doesn't he?

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06-27-2013, 10:22 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
That's just completely wrong...

you're saying that Conacher and Gallagher outscored Couturier because they have a better skillset... and that's obviously why they went 5th round - undrafted....

it definitely has nothing to do with offensive vs defensive zone starts, QoC, Linemates, and role

holy jeezus.... someone make it stop...
You are arguing he would be the #2 overall pick this year and is going to be this elite offensive force. He had 4 goals in 46 games. I wish someone would make it stop.

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:23 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by MLH View Post
You are arguing he would be the #2 overall pick this year and is going to be this elite offensive force. He had 4 goals in 46 games. I wish someone would make it stop.
not exactly...

I'm arguing that he will be a puck dominant, complete game, #1 center... who reaches a consistent 60 pt production level

I think he's going to be a stronger Patrice Bergeron

other comparables : Logan Couture
Low end : Ryan Oreilly
High end : Anze Kopitar

Strong, Complete Game players, utilized in all situations... leaders... etc

I argue that he would be the #2 overall pick this year, at age 20 knowing what we know.... development has value... whether the internetz realizes it or not

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06-27-2013, 10:29 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by MLH View Post
That's why his offensive numbers were atrocious. I'm not saying he's going to be a ten goal scorer for the rest of his career, but he is not and will never be an elite offensive player at the NHL level. He's going to be an excellent defensive center that ships in offensively.
He most certainly has the offensive ability to be around 50-60 pts, especially in a slightly less defensive role (read: not 32% offensive-zone start%). If "all" he ends up being is a 55-point perennial Selke candidate, oh darn.

Look at this bucket of trash player:

19 yr old season: 3-8-11 in 33 AHL games, 2-3-5 in 28 NHL games
20 yr old season: 30-28-58 in 78 AHL games
21 yr old season: 10-13-23 in 82 NHL games
22 yr old season: 6-10-16 in 48 NHL games

Hey guys, anyone want to trade some pretty good assets for this guy? "Nah, he's a third-liner, at best."

Can anyone name this player?

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Old
06-27-2013, 10:30 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
not exactly...

I'm arguing that he will be a puck dominant, complete game, #1 center... who reaches a consistent 60 pt production level

I think he's going to be a stronger Patrice Bergeron

other comparables : Logan Couture
Low end : Ryan Oreilly
High end : Anze Kopitar

Strong, Complete Game players, utilized in all situations... leaders... etc

I argue that he would be the #2 overall pick this year, at age 20 knowing what we know.... development has value... whether the internetz realizes it or not
O'Reilly's already at 55 point production over the past 2 seasons (pace-wise this season obv) at such a young age. I think that's a bit strong for low-end since it seems pretty clear O'Reilly will be at least a 60 point player to this fella.

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