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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part VI: Continued draft day discussion -- rumors, picks, etc...

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Old
06-27-2013, 12:35 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Except precisely no one will agree he is the best D in the draft. He projects to be more of a 4/5 while Jones projects to be franchise.
I've never heard 4/5 for Zadorov. Most scouts have him 2/3 and if his offense develops a legit number 1.

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06-27-2013, 12:38 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
I think they should trade #11 and a good prospect (Cousins, Nobles, etc) for the #8 pick.
Then they should pick Ristolainen, Pulock or Morrissey.
They should retain the #42 and try to move up to the top of the 2nd round to draft another defenseman.
Cousins is much more valuable the Nobels but I don't think he'd be enough to move up. And if they did and they picked anyone but Nurse or Risto (unless someone you can't pass up drops) it would be a mistake.

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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
I've never heard 4/5 for Zadorov. Most scouts have him 2/3 and if his offense develops a legit number 1.
Some people on here just don't like him. 4/5 is complete nonsense though.

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06-27-2013, 12:41 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Except precisely no one will agree he is the best D in the draft. He projects to be more of a 4/5 while Jones projects to be franchise.
Here's a few quotes to back up my statement of him not being projected to be a 4/5-

Career Projection – Zadorov doesn’t have many flaws in his game and is pretty well rounded, but I think a realistic projection for Zadorov is a #3 defenseman who can play 2nd unit power play and play on the top penalty killing unit. Should Zadorov continue to improve offensively, he could be capable of becoming a top pairing defenseman.

Skill:
Uses his frame and stick extremely well defensively. Very good mobility and balance given size.
Scouting Report:
Although it took some time for Zadorov to get acclimated in the OHL he is now consistently being a defensive force on the Knights backend. He has a great reach and uses his massive frame to wipe out opponents low in the zone. For his size Nikita has great mobility and backwards skating ability which makes him very tough to beat wide. His offensive tools are intriguing but definitely need continual development with his key weapon being his heavy and accurate shot. His decision making up ice and inconsistency advancing the puck will need some fine tuning to round out his game. Incredibly high upside but will need some crucial development to get there.
NHL Potential:
Top 4 shutdown defenseman who thrives on physical play. Secondary PP potential with a big shot

When it comes to Stylistic comparisons, Zadorov reminds us of a bigger version of Niklas Kronwall.* The sky is the limit for Zadorov in terms of ceiling, but there are some big questions as to whether or not he can reach that potential.* He has all the skills, but his game is just not as polished or as NHL ready as the four defencemen we have ranked above him.* Zadorov could be a real boom of a pick though, as he has a unique mixture of size, mobility, and mean streak that is hard to find, and if properly nurtured could make him an elite NHL blueliner.

The potential that some evaluators see in Zadorov has them projecting the next big physical two-way NHL defender. He shows a nice combination of mobility, strength and puck skills. He skates very well for a player of his size and shows strong footwork, balance and mobility. He makes strong plays with the puck, and reads the play well. Zadorov's first pass is strong and he does not try to force things that are just not there. His point shot is very hard and although his windup is a little on the long side, still should be considered a weapon. His strength is his physical game as he is willing to unload a devastating hit, mercilessly eliminate opponents along the boards or drop the gloves and teach an opponent a lesson about manners towards his teammates or himself. Has the potential to be an elite number one defenseman or a solid number 3 shutdown defender

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06-27-2013, 12:42 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Cousins is much more valuable the Nobels but I don't think he'd be enough to move up. And if they did and they picked anyone but Nurse or Risto (unless someone you can't pass up drops) it would be a mistake.



Some people on here just don't like him. 4/5 is complete nonsense though.
I can see that. It's one thing to not like him but why discredit someone because you don't want your team to pick that player

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06-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #155
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I want no part of Shinkaruk. I don't get the hype behind him at all. If the Flyers are going to draft a forward, quite honestly, I'd rather see a forward like Horvat (his versatility could move him all over the lineup) or Domi (people might think otherwise, but he has elite hands, vision and is not afraid to play in high traffic).

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06-27-2013, 12:52 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I want no part of Shinkaruk. I don't get the hype behind him at all. If the Flyers are going to draft a forward, quite honestly, I'd rather see a forward like Horvat (his versatility could move him all over the lineup) or Domi (people might think otherwise, but he has elite hands, vision and is not afraid to play in high traffic).
Horvat would be my #1 choice for our pick as far as realistic targets for the forward position go.

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06-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #157
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Really want Nurse, Ristolainen, or Zadorov. If we go forward, I want Domi.

However, I will 100% trust and be behind whomever we take in the 1st round. This scouting staff has an impeccable 1st round track record.

I won't even question it.

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06-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I want no part of Shinkaruk. I don't get the hype behind him at all. If the Flyers are going to draft a forward, quite honestly, I'd rather see a forward like Horvat (his versatility could move him all over the lineup) or Domi (people might think otherwise, but he has elite hands, vision and is not afraid to play in high traffic).
Don't sleep on Wennberg!

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06-27-2013, 01:13 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
I've never heard 4/5 for Zadorov. Most scouts have him 2/3 and if his offense develops a legit number 1.
I am going by his historical comparables:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/12...ft-comparables

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06-27-2013, 01:35 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Honestly. A good dream would have gone like this: I dreamed the Flyers drafted Mantha at 11. I was upset at first, being the owner of the team, but after talking for awhile with my wife Kate Upton on the front deck of our mansion in Hawaii, I was okay with the idea that my franchise could let another team have a bit of glory, since we had won the past 10 Stanley Cups in a row. So I used my superpowers to fly back to the office and meet Mr. Mantha, who – to everyone's surprise – was the greatest hockey player in the history of the NHL. I was so happy I bought Pittsburgh and had their arena demolished.

Try harder next time.

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06-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #161
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i cant see homer trading up

if anything down. why trade up at #11. calgary may trade up, for a stud center they crave, but not us. if anything we should trade down or sit back and let the chips fall where they may. fucale at 9 to the debbies, would be good news for us. someone else is gonna grab a guy not ranked in the top 10 in the top 10, and the bpa at 11 is gonna be pretty juicy. their is gonna be a good dman at 41, and for round 3 a goalie like comrie if he falls cause of injury, could be a steal in round 3.

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06-27-2013, 01:59 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I am going by his historical comparables:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/12...ft-comparables
Those comparisons were absolutely horrible. She Weber had the same stat lines in his draft year as Zadorov had, why didn't he use them to compare? It was both of their first years in the CHL as well. I know weber is an exception but still. I would love to see a list of defensemans ppg, gpg, etc. for all drafted Dmen in their draft year and not just a few guys who had absolutely no business being in the NHL. This is why I hate when people go off stats for comparables and not what the player actually looks like when they're playing the game

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06-27-2013, 02:03 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Those comparisons were absolutely horrible. She Weber had the same stat lines in his draft year as Zadorov had, why didn't he use them to compare? It was both of their first years in the CHL as well. I know weber is an exception but still. I would love to see a list of defensemans ppg, gpg, etc. for all drafted Dmen in their draft year and not just a few guys who had absolutely no business being in the NHL. This is why I hate when people go off stats for comparables and not what the player actually looks like when they're playing the game
I did that with forwards when measuring Couturier's and Schenn's potential against all CHL-based forwards drafted since 2003.

Defense is a little trickier, but I'll do that tomorrow along with adding some other objective comparable traits as well.

Tonight I have to bartend until 4am, so yeah, it'll happen tomorrow at some point.

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06-27-2013, 02:07 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I did that with forwards when measuring Couturier's and Schenn's potential against all CHL-based forwards drafted since 2003.

Defense is a little trickier, but I'll do that tomorrow along with adding some other objective comparable traits as well.

Tonight I have to bartend until 4am, so yeah, it'll happen tomorrow at some point.
Is one thing to compare but it's another to say that's where they project because of how others have played.

Btw, where do u bartend at?

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06-27-2013, 02:08 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Those comparisons were absolutely horrible. She Weber had the same stat lines in his draft year as Zadorov had, why didn't he use them to compare? It was both of their first years in the CHL as well. I know weber is an exception but still. I would love to see a list of defensemans ppg, gpg, etc. for all drafted Dmen in their draft year and not just a few guys who had absolutely no business being in the NHL. This is why I hate when people go off stats for comparables and not what the player actually looks like when they're playing the game
Reason you dont compare to guys like Weber is because Weber was the exception, not the average. He did a good job compairing though. Look at the players, he did a very good job honestly picking who to compare to. These are guys ranked right where Zadorov is, close to heights and styles of play. Who do you compare Zadorov to then? He isnt a 5'11-6'2 puckmoving defender no matter how you look at it. He's a big guy who likes to hit, and plays solid defense with questionable offense, VERY similar to the players he described in his article.

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06-27-2013, 02:08 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Is one thing to compare but it's another to say that's where they project because of how others have played.

Btw, where do u bartend at?
Just moved back from DC to Philly June 1st. Got a gig working at a bar on Penn Campus in University City.

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06-27-2013, 02:09 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Honestly. A good dream would have gone like this: I dreamed the Flyers drafted Mantha at 11. I was upset at first, being the owner of the team, but after talking for awhile with my wife Kate Upton on the front deck of our mansion in Hawaii, I was okay with the idea that my franchise could let another team have a bit of glory, since we had won the past 10 Stanley Cups in a row. So I used my superpowers to fly back to the office and meet Mr. Mantha, who – to everyone's surprise – was the greatest hockey player in the history of the NHL. I was so happy I bought Pittsburgh and had their arena demolished.

Try harder next time.
I started practicing today at work, but nothing good yet. I'm gonna have to step my game up.

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06-27-2013, 02:13 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I am going by his historical comparables:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/12...ft-comparables
Those comparables are not really flattering for Zadorov.

Nurse's are a bit better but not spectacular (Luke Schenn was a comparable).

Ristolainen's aren't bad (Pitkanen, Numminen).

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06-27-2013, 02:15 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
Those comparisons were absolutely horrible. She Weber had the same stat lines in his draft year as Zadorov had, why didn't he use them to compare? It was both of their first years in the CHL as well. I know weber is an exception but still. I would love to see a list of defensemans ppg, gpg, etc. for all drafted Dmen in their draft year and not just a few guys who had absolutely no business being in the NHL. This is why I hate when people go off stats for comparables and not what the player actually looks like when they're playing the game
Read the whole thing and and you will see what criteria he was using to find those comparisons.

By the way I have no idea why it is any more outrageous for me to say he is a 4/5 than to say he is the best defenseman in the draft.

Look at one of scouting comments you posted:

Quote:
Top 4 shutdown defenseman who thrives on physical play. Secondary PP potential with a big shot
It calls him a top 4 dman which means he could easily be a #4. Which isn't that far from me calling him a 4/5.

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06-27-2013, 02:16 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Reason you dont compare to guys like Weber is because Weber was the exception, not the average. He did a good job compairing though. Look at the players, he did a very good job honestly picking who to compare to. These are guys ranked right where Zadorov is, close to heights and styles of play. Who do you compare Zadorov to then? He isnt a 5'11-6'2 puckmoving defender no matter how you look at it. He's a big guy who likes to hit, and plays solid defense with questionable offense, VERY similar to the players he described in his article.
IMO, he didn't but we can agree to disagree on that. I've seen Zadorov play many times live this seasons, and saw his potential live and not based on text projections like a lot of people have. He's 6'5 obviously not 5'11-6'2 but that doesn't mean you can't be bigger guy and be a puck mover. Again I've seen him play live a lot this year but for those who haven't, this video shows how he can move the puck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4OsR...e_gdata_player .

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06-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Read the whole thing and and you will see what criteria he was using to find those comparisons.

By the way I have no idea why it is any more outrageous for me to say he is a 4/5 than to say he is the best defenseman in the draft.

Look at one of scouting comments you posted:



It calls him a top 4 dman which means he could easily be a #4. Which isn't that far from me calling him a 4/5.
I did read, I just don't agree with all of it

Never have you heard (or saw) me say he was the bet Dman in the draft

Exactly, easily be a number 4 but also means be could play higher than that as well. Look I'm not saying that this kid is going to be a franchise #1 Dman, I'm just trying to show that all he needs to do is put more offense in his game and then that number 4 could easily go up to top 2. Easier said than done, but it was only his first year in NA

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06-27-2013, 02:20 PM
  #172
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Just moved back from DC to Philly June 1st. Got a gig working at a bar on Penn Campus in University City.
Years ago, I was at cavs river deck and on 39th. Lot of fun back then

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06-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Those comparables are not really flattering for Zadorov.

Nurse's are a bit better but not spectacular (Luke Schenn was a comparable).

Ristolainen's aren't bad (Pitkanen, Numminen).
This is why I like the idea of comparables. I think it tempers expectations instead of looking for the next Weber, Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara. It also reminds us that these defenders are not all interchangeable.

One thing to note about Ristolainen is he is fairly unique so it's hard to find comparisons for him which could be a good thing. But even if he is a more physical/mentally mature Pitkanen that's a pretty good player.

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06-27-2013, 02:22 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
IMO, he didn't but we can agree to disagree on that. I've seen Zadorov play many times live this seasons, and saw his potential live and not based on text projections like a lot of people have. He's 6'5 obviously not 5'11-6'2 but that doesn't mean you can't be bigger guy and be a puck mover. Again I've seen him play live a lot this year but for those who haven't, this video shows how he can move the puck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4OsR...e_gdata_player .
Have you seen him live?!?!


Last edited by StoneHands: 06-27-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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06-27-2013, 02:24 PM
  #175
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Have you seen him live?!?!
I haven't, not even once

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