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Sather Speaks: Lack of Puck Possession Had "A lot to do" with Torts' firing

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Old
06-27-2013, 09:56 AM
  #251
nyranger61494
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I've just accepted the fact that Dolan wont fire Sather. He'll step down when it's time. The fact that he's cut back on his overall role is a sign he's flexible and adapted.

The guy's a relic. His health sucks, and he's kevlar'ed himself from any criticism by hiding out in these far away places.

He's still done a good job. Not a great job. But good enough. This is one of the better periods in the franchises history, sad as that may be. Playoffs in 7 or 8 seasons in a 30-team league? Halfway decent farm system. Considering the abominations I've seen, I'll take it and run.

There's light at the end of the tunnel. I'm just being patient.

The franchise isn't at a critical point. They are at the point where only one or two moves could push them over the top. Head coach might have been one of them.
See, this is where we differ and I understand where you are coming from. You have been a fan for decades. You have seen some extremely dark periods and are willing to accept a semi-decent job because it measures up well compared to this crappier times (if I am understanding you correctly).

I don't trust that Sather will step down when it's time because in my opinion, that time has come. I do think we have some nice pieces and there is light at the end of the tunnel but I disagree about this summer. This was/is an extremely critical summer for the organization. Choosing a coach that will guide the franchise through the remainder of Lundqvist's prime is a big deal. Firing a coach who, love or loathe him, got his team to the ECF. I just think the fact that in that process, Sather only bothered to interview TWO candidates in person is troubling. It is all moot looking strictly at the result because we got IMO the best coach available on the market. However, the lack of legwork done to interview other candidates and as others have alluded to "think outside the box" shows how Sather goes about business. Maybe he would have liked one of these college coaches, junior coaches or NHL assistants even more if he were to sit down with them. He didn't ramp up his efforts to hire Vigneault until Dallas forced his hand.

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06-27-2013, 10:06 AM
  #252
DM23BK30
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Obnoxiously? What's obnoxious about it?

you can't have a civil discussion on this board because every thread is pisssed on by spoiled yankee fans...

I'm a Yankees fan and been going to games since 1975. The misery of 1982 and 1988-1992 is part of the reason why I appreciate small victories.

Stick took over in 1990, and handed the biggest turd this franchise had ever seen. It took them seven seasons under his watch (Watson in 1996) to get to a WS.

The only spolied Yankees fans are the ones who never experienced the lean years. Thats why its so surprising the people trashing Sather are the ones who went through the pre-lockout mess.

1998-2004 is over. He was given a clean slate and he helped make the team, the franchise and the farm system competitive.

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06-27-2013, 10:10 AM
  #253
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The biggest thing that happened in 2004 wasn't even the roster moves. The entire culture of the organization changed almost overnight. All of the sudden, there was an emphasis on player development and a team orientation, not even talking about the destruction of the team at the deadline. A lot of that has to do with Tom Renney, but Sather is the one who brought him in, so... he gets credit too.

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06-27-2013, 10:12 AM
  #254
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NikC with the irrelevant Yankee fan post, what does that get us to? Nothing.

This is now. Built a better team. While he's still ... Looked down upon for a while ago and will be till he leaves, he's made a better team than he did before.

Queue more accusations of people who don't constantly curse Sather claiming that they're Sather lovers and idiots.

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06-27-2013, 10:19 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I'm a Yankees fan and been going to games since 1975. The misery of 1982 and 1988-1992 is part of the reason why I appreciate small victories.

Stick took over in 1990, and handed the biggest turd this franchise had ever seen. It took them seven seasons under his watch (Watson in 1996) to get to a WS.

The only spolied Yankees fans are the ones who never experienced the lean years. Thats why its so surprising the people trashing Sather are the ones who went through the pre-lockout mess.

1998-2004 is over. He was given a clean slate and he helped make the team, the franchise and the farm system competitive.
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
NikC with the irrelevant Yankee fan post, what does that get us to? Nothing.

This is now. Built a better team. While he's still ... Looked down upon for a while ago and will be till he leaves, he's made a better team than he did before.

Queue more accusations of people who don't constantly curse Sather claiming that they're Sather lovers and idiots.
my apologies to yankees fans... maybe it's the depressed Mets fans then?


i couldn't agree with the bolded more.

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06-27-2013, 10:26 AM
  #256
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I just think that it was unnecessary and completely unrelated to anything going on here.

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06-27-2013, 10:28 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The biggest thing that happened in 2004 wasn't even the roster moves. The entire culture of the organization changed almost overnight. All of the sudden, there was an emphasis on player development and a team orientation, not even talking about the destruction of the team at the deadline. A lot of that has to do with Tom Renney, but Sather is the one who brought him in, so... he gets credit too.
The salary cap and Sather's hand being forced had a ton to do with it as well.

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06-27-2013, 10:37 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The salary cap and Sather's hand being forced had a ton to do with it as well.
Revisionist history. The changes were made before the lockout.

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06-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #259
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This is a list of all the UFA players Sather has signed to 3+ year contracts. (List does not include undrafted UFAs or drafted players that were not signed by their drafting team).

Kasparitis
Holik
de Vries
Cullen
Gomez
Drury
Redden
Voros
Rissmiller
Kotalik
Rozsival
Gaborik
Rupp

None of these players finished their contract with the Rangers. Richards will soon be added to that list, and possibly Boyle as well.

Some of those players Sather was able to trade for good value. Gomez for McD. Kotalik for Prust. Gaborik for Brassard, Moore and Dorsett. Cullen got us a 3rd that became Grachev, who became a 3rd and we picked Fogarty. Voros became Eminger, who has at least been serviceable.

These are the only players who signed 3+ year UFA contracts since Sather has been here, who played out their entire contract with the team:

Nylander
Malik

Ironically, Nylander only played for us for 2 years since we signed him right before the lockout.

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06-27-2013, 10:58 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Revisionist history. The changes were made before the lockout.
You think Sather didn't have an idea of what was coming?

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06-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You think Sather didn't have an idea of what was coming?
Probably did, but you know... I'll modify that to say that it isn't even the point. It's not the roster moves or even the focus on drafting that was the effective change. It was changing the culture of the organization. A salary cap, for example, doesn't force a team to go through team building exercises at West Point.

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06-27-2013, 11:41 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Probably did, but you know... I'll modify that to say that it isn't even the point. It's not the roster moves or even the focus on drafting that was the effective change. It was changing the culture of the organization. A salary cap, for example, doesn't force a team to go through team building exercises at West Point.
No, but I think that was more Renney's influence than Sather's.

I have a hard time believing an old dog like Sather can learn new tricks unless he's forced to. This is the guy who said that if he had the Rangers' payroll, he'd never lose. And in his first 4 years, he spent ridiculous amounts of money and did nothing but lose.

Regardless of how much credit you give Sather for the change in culture, it is a welcome change. But I still think we have a ways to go.

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06-27-2013, 11:45 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
No, but I think that was more Renney's influence than Sather's.

I have a hard time believing an old dog like Sather can learn new tricks unless he's forced to. This is the guy who said that if he had the Rangers' payroll, he'd never lose. And in his first 4 years, he spent ridiculous amounts of money and did nothing but lose.

Regardless of how much credit you give Sather for the change in culture, it is a welcome change. But I still think we have a ways to go.
So the guy who worked well under the boss gets all the credit for making major changes? That doesn't make much sense to me and it doesn't sound like any business I have ever worked for.

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06-27-2013, 11:52 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
So the guy who worked well under the boss gets all the credit for making major changes? That doesn't make much sense to me and it doesn't sound like any business I have ever worked for.
I didn't say Sather gets no credit. But do you honestly believe that going to West Point was Sather's idea?

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06-27-2013, 12:27 PM
  #265
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I think Sather always wanted to bring young players through the system he just drafted poorly for awhile.

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06-27-2013, 12:49 PM
  #266
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The 2004 Fire Sale was Sather waving the white flag. It was his doing that got him there in the first place, but the idea to shift strategy was his. It wasn't predicated on Lundqvist. Once he realized what he had in Lundqvist, he decided to build around him. He and his staff built a coaching staff and a roster based on defense.

Sather made significant moves before that. He stole Jagr for Anson Carter. Jagr won a Pearson in his first full season in NY. He drafted Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal (who sather traded up to get) and Sauer -- four players who might not be all stars, but signified that the franchise was capable of developing NHL talent.

Nobody should ever deny that Lundqvist saved this franchise. But he had help along the way. Sather had a part in that.

Yes, Gorton is a perfect candidate. Yes, it's time for Sather to really lean forward on retiring. But I refuse to agree with the idea that he had little to nothing to do with the current state of the franchise, and that the current state is deplorable.

For 7 seasons, everybody screamed they wanted youth, rebuild, youth, rebuild. They wondered why the Rangers couldnt produce a coveted prospect like the other teams.

take a look at the current roster. You're telling me 29 other GMs/fanbases wouldnt kill for a McDonagh or a Stepan or a Callahan or a Staal or a Lundqvist...possibly a Hagelin, a Kreider and Miller?

Things have changed. I appreciate that. I appreciate the fact that I want them to get into the CF or SCF every year, rather than just getting to .500 or beating the Devils just once or drafting and developing a guy other teams covet.

For all his shortcomings, Sather needs to be recognized for getting the fanbase what they asked for for almost a decade.

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06-27-2013, 01:02 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I'm not the one who thinks finishing top-3 in postseason all star voting doesnt make a guy top-3 at his position (twice no less). But nice how you avoided that part after I mentioned it.

You must be one of those "Ovechkin isnt the MVP of the league even though he won the Hart" type of fans.

And where did I say Sather should stay "forever"?

What do you want Sather to do? Trade for Toews? Crosby? Toews and Crosby? Trade Stepan and Kreider for Keith?

Again, the Sather bashing is based on the fact that the team hasnt reached the SCF. But let's ignore the fact that 75pct of the roster is under 28.



So let's try again:

1) If Sather goes, who replaces him?

2) What roster moves must Sather make to turn the Rangers into Cup contenders (which they were 12 months ago)?
1) Not my job to pick a GM. All I know is that Sather has failed monumentally. He has been here forever and if not for Hank, the franchise would have to struggle to be mediocre.

2) See number 1

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06-27-2013, 02:11 PM
  #268
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jeez, is there anything good that people won't attribute to lundqvist?

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06-27-2013, 06:10 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by bobby peru View Post
jeez, is there anything good that people won't attribute to lundqvist?
Lundqvist has been the one player here since the 1st lockout. He came in and took over the position, won 30 games that first year. Where would the organization be without him?


Last edited by Brooklyn Ranger: 06-27-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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06-27-2013, 06:12 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by bobby peru View Post
jeez, is there anything good that people won't attribute to lundqvist?
McDonagh is a helluva player and Callahan, Stepan, and Nash are very good players If Staal comes back, that's another feather for the Rangers.

Everyone else is potentially good or not good.

Which players, if lost, knocks the team out of contention?

Besides Lundqvist and maybe McDonagh.

The Rangers roster without Lundqvist is scary to look at.

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06-27-2013, 06:28 PM
  #271
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McDonagh is a helluva player and Callahan, Stepan, and Nash are very good players If Staal comes back, that's another feather for the Rangers.

Everyone else is potentially good or not good.

Which players, if lost, knocks the team out of contention?

Besides Lundqvist and maybe McDonagh.

The Rangers roster without Lundqvist is scary to look at.
Try and imagine the 2005-6 season without him. No matter how many points Jagr scored, we all would have been miserable with Mike Dunham

Oops, meant Weekes. Either would have been a nightmare.


Last edited by Brooklyn Ranger: 06-27-2013 at 07:06 PM. Reason: to limit the eeks!
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06-27-2013, 06:31 PM
  #272
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Try and imagine the 2005-6 season without him. No matter how many points Jagr scored, we all would have been miserable with Mike Dunham
Don't you mean Kevin Weekes?

Also, I firmly believe that Lundqvist's emergence ruined Montoya's career. Not that I care.

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06-27-2013, 07:05 PM
  #273
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Don't you mean Kevin Weekes?

Also, I firmly believe that Lundqvist's emergence ruined Montoya's career. Not that I care.
Yes, I did mean Weekes. Was looking at the mess of goalies that played the year before the lockout right before I posted that.

As for Motoya--too bad he wasn't traded sooner. And too bad Lundqvist had to play so many games because Valliquette was the backup.

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06-27-2013, 07:05 PM
  #274
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yes sather has failed, should be gone etc...

but dont just say Lundqvist is the savior of this franchise.. he is the franchise yes, but don't minimize the players around him..

hags, step, callahan, mcd staal girardi mdz if available 29 gms would be calling and anteing up to get them.. all of them are top 6 and top 4 on every team in the league.. your telling me our d isn't anything special? yeah hank is amazing but we easily have one of the top and youngest d cores in the league.. letang is considered a top pairing and norris candidate year in and out but look how he played in the playoffs.. i dont even know if he knew what d was.. dont minimize our players when we should be salivating and lucky to have built our core the way it is..

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06-27-2013, 07:08 PM
  #275
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I'm not minimizing the other players around Lundqvist, just arguing that he's central to the success the organization has had since the lockout.

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