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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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Old
06-27-2013, 03:46 PM
  #726
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
I would consider it debatable whether Visnovsky was ever a quality 1 or 2. To me Vis is like a d version of Gagner. Puts up the points but next to useless at doing most of the things considered mandatory to play position. You would clearly need a discerning eye and bring in a top 2 that fits the teams needs. A vis type d would be redundant on this team.
1) Lubo was absolutely a top pairing D when we had him. He was the highest scoring D in the league for a while.

2) Lubo would be a perfect D here. We need guys that can pass the puck and whose first thought isn't to ring the puck off the boards and give it back to the opposing D.

And I leave this conversation at that. I don't want to take the thread off topic. My point was that moving players and then trying to replace the holes they've left hasn't worked well for us in the past. I would prefer we don't count on it for the future.

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06-27-2013, 03:47 PM
  #727
raab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
I would consider it debatable whether Visnovsky was ever a quality 1 or 2. To me Vis is like a d version of Gagner. Puts up the points but next to useless at doing most of the things considered mandatory to play position. You would clearly need a discerning eye and bring in a top 2 that fits the teams needs. A vis type d would be redundant on this team.
Did you even watch Vishnovsky when he was here?

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06-27-2013, 03:56 PM
  #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
I would consider it debatable whether Visnovsky was ever a quality 1 or 2. To me Vis is like a d version of Gagner. Puts up the points but next to useless at doing most of the things considered mandatory to play position. You would clearly need a discerning eye and bring in a top 2 that fits the teams needs. A vis type d would be redundant on this team.
I thought Vis was very good while he was in Edmonton, he then went to Anaheim and led the entire NHL in scoring by a dman.

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06-27-2013, 03:56 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
People scoffed at the source but that's the guy who runs the nation network and he doesn't just make stuff up, he has connections.
a lot of 'connected' people also claimed MacT has 3 or 4 deals done and is just waiting for the playoffs to be done.. Excuse us for not beleiving a person with supposed connections.

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06-27-2013, 03:59 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by sOiled View Post
Did he already talk?
Yah.. nothing special.. the usual ... letting the agent do the bargaining..
likes where the team is headed and wants to see this get through. Spoke with Eakins for a bit over the phone.. Is in Toronto and put on the skates for the first time this summer yesterday.

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06-27-2013, 04:04 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
1) Lubo was absolutely a top pairing D when we had him. He was the highest scoring D in the league for a while.

2) Lubo would be a perfect D here. We need guys that can pass the puck and whose first thought isn't to ring the puck off the boards and give it back to the opposing D.

And I leave this conversation at that. I don't want to take the thread off topic. My point was that moving players and then trying to replace the holes they've left hasn't worked well for us in the past. I would prefer we don't count on it for the future.
Fair enough..lots of holes to fill all over the map. It would be ideal to trade a player from a position which has depth. I sure hope MacT has a solid plan in place.

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06-27-2013, 04:04 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Great comparable actually...

Weight was traded to us the year he turned 22. He scored 48 points that year in 78 gms and was +2 +/-. In Sam's 22 year old season he scored 47 points in 75gp and was +5.

The next year, at 23yrs/old Weight scored 74 points ( 0.88ppg) while being a -22 +/- as a 23 year old. This year, at 23, Sam scored 38 in 48gp (0.79ppg) and was -6.

At 24 years old, Weight = 40 in 48 for (0.83ppg) and -17... Gagner we'll know this year.

At 25, Weight scored 104pts in 82gp and was STILL -19 in +/-.... Gagner ???

At 26, Weight scored 82 in 80gp and was FINALLY a +1. Gagner...????

After that Weight continued on at a ppg clip and started actually being a + player. He topped out at +20 in his first year in St Louis.

We let him go after his age 29 season cuz he wanted $5M... prorated to today that would have been in the 6.5M range.

I know many of us were pretty young in the Weight years (I was in Gr13 when we acquired him), but I was pretty surprised to see how well Gagner stacks up.

Amazing that Gagner is already 5 years into his career at a time when Weight was considered a "kid" after being traded to EDM.

Imagine if Gagner had gone the college route... he'd be one of the most sought after young players in the game! It's all about perception and we should not forget (what MacT seems to know...) how young he actually is.
No chance he would take only 5 Mil. I believe he was making around 7-8 Mil with St Louis.

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06-27-2013, 04:06 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
People scoffed at the source but that's the guy who runs the nation network and he doesn't just make stuff up, he has connections.
I think it's understandable to not take seriously a tweet from a blogger that said "for a fact" that Gagner turned down 4 x 4.5m,
when there has been no other information from any sort of reputable source or news organization.

heck, I'm telling you I don't make stuff up, and have connections.
and I know for a fact gagner is signing for 4 years at 5m per.
I think mine is just as likely.

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06-27-2013, 04:06 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
a lot of 'connected' people also claimed MacT has 3 or 4 deals done and is just waiting for the playoffs to be done.. Excuse us for not beleiving a person with supposed connections.
He must be waiting for the draft now

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06-27-2013, 04:08 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
All signs point to an overpay if we don't move him. I don't consider him a core player and if I'm overpaying a secondary player he had damn well better bring an all around game and toughness to boot.
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
What signs do you speak of?
I'm guessing it's the sign on the door of the people trying to sign him that says "Edmonton Oilers" on it. That's a synonymn for overpayment these days.

It is MacT though, so this will be his first big negotiation as GM. I'm not clear on whether pumping Gagner's tires in the media during the negotiation is the right tact, but we'll wait until it all plays out and see. Maybe it raises the players' agent's position, maybe feeling appreciated motivates the player to take a fair deal to stay. Nothing to do but sit back and wait.

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06-27-2013, 04:12 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
a lot of 'connected' people also claimed MacT has 3 or 4 deals done and is just waiting for the playoffs to be done.. Excuse us for not beleiving a person with supposed connections.
You're excused?

I'd say there's a difference between a random HFboards poster who doesn't publicly name their sources compared to a well known blogger who has guys like Strudwick, Gregor, Brownlee, Willis, Drance, Lowetide etc etc etc writing under him.

Lowetide responded :

Quote:
Lowetide ‏@Lowetide_ 24 Jun

@WanyeGretz I'll bet they have to go $5M+ a year to get him. Will they?
So he believes him it seems.

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Old
06-27-2013, 04:16 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Because I, like several others, think that pursuing a C via free agency is a fools game. I also think that even if we are lucky and end up with Monahan or Lindholm at #7, there is absolutely no way either of them will be ready to step in and play 2C on an NHL team. If we do that it would be beyond stupid.
Who cares if MacT is "pursuing" centers - that doesn't mean anything until pen is put to paper and the C is actually an Oiler. We have a young top 6 C ready to go here.

What's that old saying ... a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? We might get lucky with the Gagner situation. Or we'll end up with the C depth that you quoted me posting.
Well then, the same reasoning applies that we still have RNH, Gagner, Horcoff and Belanger. The tradeaways don't matter unless they actually happen. MacT isn't about to empty the cupboard and work from a position of weakness.

If we re-sign Gags before he hits RFA status, and a C comes back in the Horcoff trade, the concern is all moot.

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Old
06-27-2013, 04:17 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
IMO, why not trade Gags for another mid-1st round pick?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Dallas at 10 or Phoenix at 12 works for me.

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06-27-2013, 04:17 PM
  #739
KlimasLoveChild
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Did you even watch Vishnovsky when he was here?
I'm guessing you're in the Gagner scores points so he is a solid player crowd. Vis was a good pp specialist and puck mover. He is an adventure in his end own end. I would consider him a second pairing guy at best on a contending team. Seeing as most of the teams he has played on have been awful I can see how some would consider him a top pairing guy. Just like half the oilers team is miscast and expecting to be paid for it.

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Old
06-27-2013, 04:20 PM
  #740
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Listened to Samwise talk for a bit on Spector. Love his positivity and professionalism.

I'm still one who wants him to stay.

Samwise needs a cup in Edmonton.

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06-27-2013, 04:33 PM
  #741
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If I was lucky enough to be MacT, I would hold off on signing Gagner, at least for ar a week or so.
There's a lot of pretty interesting Centres that are now available, with possibility of more to come.

What's the rush to sign Gagner? Yes, he's talented but he's also small, not overly fast, and he cant win a draw to save his life. Not my idea of a #2 centre.

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06-27-2013, 04:39 PM
  #742
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I know for a fact Gagner is hoping for 4-6 years at 4.75M. He wants to stay for the foreseeable future and is letting his agent do the work for him.

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06-27-2013, 04:44 PM
  #743
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Drop it to 4 and we'll up the length to 6 years.

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06-27-2013, 04:49 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Debonair View Post
No chance he would take only 5 Mil. I believe he was making around 7-8 Mil with St Louis.
Sorry... you are right. That's what we offered him.

But that just further's the point. Gagner his EXACTLY on par with Weight in an age-age comparison. One guy became a $7M player in his UFA years. The other guy could be a huge bargain at $5M or less.

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Old
06-27-2013, 04:51 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
I think it's understandable to not take seriously a tweet from a blogger that said "for a fact" that Gagner turned down 4 x 4.5m,
when there has been no other information from any sort of reputable source or news organization.

heck, I'm telling you I don't make stuff up, and have connections.
and I know for a fact gagner is signing for 4 years at 5m per.
I think mine is just as likely.
Well ****, Gord. Are you yanking us?

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06-27-2013, 04:56 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
You're excused?

I'd say there's a difference between a random HFboards poster who doesn't publicly name their sources compared to a well known blogger who has guys like Strudwick, Gregor, Brownlee, Willis, Drance, Lowetide etc etc etc writing under him.

Lowetide responded :



So he believes him it seems.
I might be wrong, but didn't Wanye break Smyth back to Edmonton? I seem to remember that happening. Not real sure though.

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06-27-2013, 05:09 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
I might be wrong, but didn't Wanye break Smyth back to Edmonton? I seem to remember that happening. Not real sure though.
I think so too.

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Old
06-27-2013, 05:13 PM
  #748
SephF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord View Post
I think it's understandable to not take seriously a tweet from a blogger that said "for a fact" that Gagner turned down 4 x 4.5m,
when there has been no other information from any sort of reputable source or news organization.

heck, I'm telling you I don't make stuff up, and have connections.
and I know for a fact gagner is signing for 4 years at 5m per.
I think mine is just as likely.
I disagree but that's cool! We'll see soon enough.

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06-27-2013, 05:24 PM
  #749
SephF
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
I might be wrong, but didn't Wanye break Smyth back to Edmonton? I seem to remember that happening. Not real sure though.
I don't know if he broke the Smyth deal but he was ontop of it early, he's legit but people don't give him much of a chance. I guess you can't blame them when you go through his twitter and see his antics.

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06-27-2013, 05:29 PM
  #750
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
You're excused?

I'd say there's a difference between a random HFboards poster who doesn't publicly name their sources compared to a well known blogger who has guys like Strudwick, Gregor, Brownlee, Willis, Drance, Lowetide etc etc etc writing under him.

Lowetide responded :



So he believes him it seems.
is that poster not his employer?

Also, the hfposters named their sources to the mods and were allowed to keep their posts up. A well known blogger is not much connected IMO... Struds and Gregor wont know whats happening inside closed doors.

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