HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hurricanes Off Season Thread: When Tlusty doesn't score 40, who will be to blame?

View Poll Results: When Tlusty doesn't hit 40 next year, whose fault will it be?
Eric Staal's Leadership 16 5.80%
Kirk Muller's Coaching 4 1.45%
Patrick Eaves' Shoe Collection 25 9.06%
Defense 5 1.81%
Lack of depth everywhere 5 1.81%
Special Teams 3 1.09%
No team toughness 10 3.62%
JR needs to go!!! 5 1.81%
NO FLAGS AT CENTER ICE!?! 203 73.55%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-27-2013, 04:30 PM
  #801
Boom Boom Anton
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
The true futility of looking at assets only valuable as "who is still on the team", is incredibly shortsighted and falls just short of entirely ignorant of what the term "asset" even means.
Yes and no. Of course just looking at it that way without taking into account what else transpired is short sighted. The drafting of a guy like Ladd was a good pick for instance so when assets are used to obtain other players, it is fair to say it is short-sighted view.

On the other-hand, it shows a pattern of a team that doesn't build through the draft and sometimes trades off young players to try and win now. If the team is a large market team and can afford to do that, then great, but IMO (which you are free to disagree with), Carolina would be much better served building a stronger base of players through the draft rather than continuously trying for a quick fix at the expense of younger / drafted players. That's why it bothers me when I think there's even a chance that Skinner could be move because "staal and ward are in their prime years".

To me that's what Carolina's draft record reflects more than anything. I realize hindsight is always 20-20, but a budget team not being able to capitalize on home-grown talent is what bothers me.

Boom Boom Anton is online now  
Old
06-27-2013, 04:49 PM
  #802
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,214
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Yes and no. Of course just looking at it that way without taking into account what else transpired is short sighted. The drafting of a guy like Ladd was a good pick for instance so when assets are used to obtain other players, it is fair to say it is short-sighted view.

On the other-hand, it shows a pattern of a team that doesn't build through the draft and sometimes trades off young players to try and win now. If the team is a large market team and can afford to do that, then great, but IMO (which you are free to disagree with), Carolina would be much better served building a stronger base of players through the draft rather than continuously trying for a quick fix at the expense of younger / drafted players. That's why it bothers me when I think there's even a chance that Skinner could be move because "staal and ward are in their prime years".

To me that's what Carolina's draft record reflects more than anything. I realize hindsight is always 20-20, but a budget team not being able to capitalize on home-grown talent is what bothers me.
My contention being that if we're going to criticize the team for bad drafting, we can't really include players that were successful draft picks. Brandon Sutter, Jack Johnson, Andrew Ladd, Brian Dumoulin, Frederik Andersen.... many others. Simply because they are no longer in uniform doesn't make them any less valuable as draft picks. What we did after we drafted them is a whole different matter and a legitimate gripe in my estimation, but that doesn't fall at the feet of the talent identifiers. That falls at the feet of moves that JR made after drafting that were either moves to fill immediate holes or players further along the developmental curve. Even a guy like Paradis yielded Tlusty.... which I know is a bit of a reach in terms of connecting the dots back to the draft but the point remains that Carolina has been a pretty strong drafting team in recent history in my estimation in compared to other outlets.

Vagrant is offline  
Old
06-27-2013, 05:00 PM
  #803
FlyingSquirrels
Registered User
 
FlyingSquirrels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,001
vCash: 500
I think that as soon as Sheldon Ferguson hit the road our fortunes turned around almost immediately. How that assclown landed a head scout position with an NHL team is criminal. He was just awful. MacDonald seems to be much better at identifying talent, thru the first 60-70 picks at least. After that I have an issue with him. But at least he can find that guy that slipped and understand the value of that guy and land him in the 2nd round.

I think this is why we go after Plymouth dudes or bloodline dudes or Scott Walker dudes in the 2nd and beyond. I really wonder if we even have a board thats more than 90 guys deep. It doesn't appear that way sometimes. (I am only partly kidding)

FlyingSquirrels is offline  
Old
06-27-2013, 05:09 PM
  #804
Jussijuice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
I can see it now, JR scouring McKeen's and HP the night before the Draft hoping to find some sleeper picks that piqué his interest.

Jussijuice is offline  
Old
06-27-2013, 05:18 PM
  #805
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,356
vCash: 562
with drafts with him at the helm, here's what we've gotten since then:
2008:
4 - Michal Jordan - quality depth player
6 - Mike Murphy - steal until his ego caused him to bolt for the KHL where Putin stole his mojo
7 - Samuel Morneau - bust. Maybe we were thinking of Justin Morneau or something

2009:
THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T DRAFT WITH AN OUTRIGHT EDICT!
3 - Mattias Lindstrom - bust
5 - Matt Kennedy - bust
6 - Rasmus Rissanen - quality depth, could get callup next year
7 - Tommi Kivisto - project but still a viable prospect

2010:
3 - Danny Biega - steal
3 - Austin Levi - good prospect, but still a few years out
4 - Justin Shugg - project but good AHL depth
6 - Tyler Stahl - bust. Apparently forgot that he's not a Staal but a different family altogether
7 - Frederik Andersen - I will track down his agent and make that ****er PAY

2011:
3 - Keegan Lowe - legit prospect
4 - Gregory Hofmann - see Andersen, it's the same god damn agent
6 - Matt Mahalak - bust
7 - Brody Sutter - project, but had a big playoff in the AHL

2012:
3 - Daniel Altshuller - had a breakout year in the OHL
4 - Erik Karlsson - had a nice season and made his SEL debut
4 - Trevor Carrick - had a breakout year
4 - Jacob Slavin - struggled last year in the USHL but played well for the U-19s, we'll see how he does at DU
5 - Brendan Woods - grinder, don't know what to make of him yet
6 - Collin Olson - possible steal
7 - Brendan Collier - led his EJHL team in scoring, project but possible gem, headed to BU next year

DaveG is online now  
Old
06-27-2013, 05:44 PM
  #806
FlyingSquirrels
Registered User
 
FlyingSquirrels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
with drafts with him at the helm, here's what we've gotten since then:
2008:
4 - Michal Jordan - quality depth player
6 - Mike Murphy - steal until his ego caused him to bolt for the KHL where Putin stole his mojo
7 - Samuel Morneau - bust. Maybe we were thinking of Justin Morneau or something

2009:
THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T DRAFT WITH AN OUTRIGHT EDICT!
3 - Mattias Lindstrom - bust
5 - Matt Kennedy - bust
6 - Rasmus Rissanen - quality depth, could get callup next year
7 - Tommi Kivisto - project but still a viable prospect

2010:
3 - Danny Biega - steal
3 - Austin Levi - good prospect, but still a few years out
4 - Justin Shugg - project but good AHL depth
6 - Tyler Stahl - bust. Apparently forgot that he's not a Staal but a different family altogether
7 - Frederik Andersen - I will track down his agent and make that ****er PAY

2011:
3 - Keegan Lowe - legit prospect
4 - Gregory Hofmann - see Andersen, it's the same god damn agent
6 - Matt Mahalak - bust
7 - Brody Sutter - project, but had a big playoff in the AHL

2012:
3 - Daniel Altshuller - had a breakout year in the OHL
4 - Erik Karlsson - had a nice season and made his SEL debut
4 - Trevor Carrick - had a breakout year
4 - Jacob Slavin - struggled last year in the USHL but played well for the U-19s, we'll see how he does at DU
5 - Brendan Woods - grinder, don't know what to make of him yet
6 - Collin Olson - possible steal
7 - Brendan Collier - led his EJHL team in scoring, project but possible gem, headed to BU next year
Nice work Dave!

I remember some writer quietly made Olson the steal of the 6th round last year. Might be right.

FlyingSquirrels is offline  
Old
06-27-2013, 07:46 PM
  #807
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,214
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
I like Olson, but his fall off the face of the planet was concerning to me. He's going to have a tall task ahead of him as fellow draft pick (7th Round, 2012 Chicago) Matt Tomkins comes into the Ohio State program. I could see those two stealing starts from one another. Both are talented enough to do it.

Vagrant is offline  
Old
06-27-2013, 07:51 PM
  #808
Jussijuice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,012
vCash: 500
I've heard that Glen Wesley has played a large part in the recent success identifying high-end D in the Draft.

Jussijuice is offline  
Old
06-27-2013, 09:08 PM
  #809
NotOpie
HeDidn'tReallyDoThat
 
NotOpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 808
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to NotOpie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
My contention being that if we're going to criticize the team for bad drafting, we can't really include players that were successful draft picks. Brandon Sutter, Jack Johnson, Andrew Ladd, Brian Dumoulin, Frederik Andersen.... many others. Simply because they are no longer in uniform doesn't make them any less valuable as draft picks. What we did after we drafted them is a whole different matter and a legitimate gripe in my estimation, but that doesn't fall at the feet of the talent identifiers. That falls at the feet of moves that JR made after drafting that were either moves to fill immediate holes or players further along the developmental curve. Even a guy like Paradis yielded Tlusty.... which I know is a bit of a reach in terms of connecting the dots back to the draft but the point remains that Carolina has been a pretty strong drafting team in recent history in my estimation in compared to other outlets.
You both make some interesting points. My original point wasn't about bad drafting in general, it was about screwing the pooch in that particular draft. Even so we obtained at least one valuable asset, and in that regard I agree with Vagrant. I don't think its connecting the dots when looking at Tlusty/Paradis....its pure asset management and we came out of that well. Even when looking at Lindstrom, the jury must remain out as he was half of the Dadanov trade (whom we still own the rights to). And that's the key. Jack Johnson yielded Tim Gleason for us and I'm hard pressed not to think that as of this moment we ended up with at least an equivalent contributor. 2005 was a similar draft talent-wise to 2013, especially at the top end (Crosby, Ryan, Kopitar, Rask, M. Staal). So it is key for us to take advantage of these talent laden points in time.

NotOpie is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 12:36 PM
  #810
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussijuice View Post
I've heard that Glen Wesley has played a large part in the recent success identifying high-end D in the Draft.
Wouldn't be surprised. Guy was an intelligent player on the ice, so he's likely noticing the subtle things that non-player scouts might miss.

Blueline Bomber is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 03:40 PM
  #811
Guy
Registered User
 
Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,825
vCash: 500
Bellemore re-signed 1 year 2 way, plan the parade.

Guy is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #812
Chrispy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
Here is the release on Bellemore

$600K in NHL, $150K in AHL, $250K guaranteed minimum. Sounds similar to Brett Carson's last Canes contract.

Chrispy is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:03 PM
  #813
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,817
vCash: 500
That is good news, we need this guy for depth. Would've been foolish to let him go. Wo years would've made more sense to me, but I'm sure bellemore wanted it short in case he makes it and can force them into a one way.

bleedgreen is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:16 PM
  #814
BanginLikeaBiscuit
Dobby
 
BanginLikeaBiscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,933
vCash: 500
Nice, glad we got him under contract. Hopefully we don't need to rely on him too much, but he's been a solid call-up for the bottom paring when we do.

BanginLikeaBiscuit is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:24 PM
  #815
FlyingSquirrels
Registered User
 
FlyingSquirrels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,001
vCash: 500
Good for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he nails down the 6-7 defensive slot. He's exactly what we lack right now, solid stay at home guy that will throw down when called upon. And I thought he acquitted himself quite well during his time here.

Honestly, better him that Sangs or MAB.

FlyingSquirrels is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:24 PM
  #816
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,817
vCash: 500
So I had a dream yesterday. Gleason for coburn, Pitts for McDonough, and picking up Komi cheap. I laughed and rolled over when I woke up. Today I awoke to see dredger has us interested in coburn.....

If it happens ill be pretty annoyed I never dream about Scarlett Jo.

bleedgreen is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:31 PM
  #817
Novacane
LOCK
 
Novacane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
So I had a dream yesterday. Gleason for coburn, Pitts for McDonough, and picking up Komi cheap. I laughed and rolled over when I woke up. Today I awoke to see dredger has us interested in coburn.....

If it happens ill be pretty annoyed I never dream about Scarlett Jo.
Interesting.






Novacane is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:33 PM
  #818
vwg*
Scoring Not Allowed
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Krasnoyarsk
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 19,957
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
So I had a dream yesterday. Gleason for coburn, Pitts for McDonough, and picking up Komi cheap. I laughed and rolled over when I woke up. Today I awoke to see dredger has us interested in coburn.....

If it happens ill be pretty annoyed I never dream about Scarlett Jo.
Pitkanen for McDonagh verifies this must have been a dream. If you were a Rangers fan, then it'd be a complete nightmare.

Eklund also has us "interested" in Letang. Yeah, we're interested in the same way I'm interested in buying a Ferrari - I don't have the funds and even if I did a Ferrari doesn't exactly fit my immediate needs.

vwg* is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:35 PM
  #819
Gr8Dan
Registered User
 
Gr8Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 880
vCash: 500
Letang rejected a 7M/Yr... and that's with a home discount. Never gonna happen here

Gr8Dan is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:44 PM
  #820
Brock Anton
Deal with it.
 
Brock Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Westerly, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 13,028
vCash: 500
According to Dreger, we're interested in Coburn.

Do want.

Brock Anton is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 04:49 PM
  #821
FlyingSquirrels
Registered User
 
FlyingSquirrels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Anton View Post
According to Dreger, we're interested in Coburn.

Do want.
Great. Now let the overpayment begin.

FlyingSquirrels is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #822
Josh3217
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
Coming from a NYR fan. Looking for a CAR Y/N.

Staal+Pyatt+Thomas
for
Faulk+Murphy
or
Staal+Pyatt
for
Faulk+2nd rd pick

opinions?

Josh3217 is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 11:25 PM
  #823
Novacane
LOCK
 
Novacane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh3217 View Post
Coming from a NYR fan. Looking for a CAR Y/N.

Staal+Pyatt+Thomas
for
Faulk+Murphy
or
Staal+Pyatt
for
Faulk+2nd rd pick

opinions?
No. Not moving Faulk.

Novacane is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #824
Josh3217
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacane View Post
No. Not moving Faulk.
Im sure something could pry him away from you guys, what would it be?

Josh3217 is offline  
Old
06-28-2013, 11:35 PM
  #825
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,817
vCash: 500
Another defenseman just as good and just as cheap. We need d. You're asking for our best option. We need to add at least two more, not subtract. Bergeron, corvo, sangs, and probably mcbain are all moving out. You think Faulk is available?

bleedgreen is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.