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2013-2014 Roster Discussion II

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06-27-2013, 06:10 PM
  #76
kingsfan28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I do think it is possible to sign Scuderi for about $3m AAV but that might require a 4 year deal. I would love to see Penner come back but I think that is unrealistic at this point. I also wouldn't be shocked to see the Kings carry 22 players to start the season.

Mitchell's stupid injury put the Kings in a really tough spot.
That's what I'm thinking too. If they could get Scuds to take a lower salary, but throw in an extra year it might work.

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06-27-2013, 06:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Are we in talks with WPG player for picks?
I dunno ... ARE WE ? spill da beans you gossip hound !

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06-27-2013, 06:29 PM
  #78
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I'd give Scuderi four years. He's 34.

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06-27-2013, 06:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
The money he wants we can't give and the money we can give he doesn't want.
That isn't necessarily true. I guess it depends on how you interpret his comments. If it comes down to Penner getting offers from bottom feeders for $3m+ on a multiyear deal versus getting $1.5m-$2m with the Kings (assuming DL finds a way to give him that much - meaning Mitchell starts the year on IR) for another year, he might just re-sign here or with another contender for a smaller amount. I thought this comment was the key to the article:

Quote:
ďAs you get older, you put way more value on winning. Thatís not to say that I didnít value winning before. But you donít know when you first get into the league how hard it is to win and how things need to line up. LA has worked really hard to get to where they are now as a team, the whole organization with the players and core they haveÖitís a lot of players who want to play for LA.Ē
I don't think it means Penner will sign for peanuts because if DL leaves $1m in cap space and he is the last focus, he is going to bolt for the bigger payday. Given the amount of other underachieving UFA's that will be on the market and the lack of cap space amongst legitimate contenders, Penner could find himself between a rock and a hard place trying to find a fair long term deal with a playoff team.

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06-27-2013, 06:33 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
I dunno ... ARE WE ? spill da beans you gossip hound !
I am almost literally buried in draft info packs and stuff is happening so fast that it is next to impossible to keep up with everything. I heard we are possibly in talks with WPG. I was hoping that the media would have picked it up by now and that someone here has heard it too. I will get back when I find out what is what but with Hainsey leaving maybe we are moving A Mart or maaaaaaybe someone else? I don't know anything solid yet.

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06-27-2013, 06:38 PM
  #81
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We should just sign Scuderi and go over cap-wise for the time being. Not sure if the new CBA still allows for offseason overage (clarification on this?) but Mitchell is still on LTIR as far as I know. Then when we have a clearer picture of Mitchell's status, make necessary trades, buyouts, whatever needs to be done to get back under the cap. Is this not an option or am I naive?

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06-27-2013, 06:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I am almost literally buried in draft info packs and stuff is happening so fast that it is next to impossible to keep up with everything. I heard we are possibly in talks with WPG. I was hoping that the media would have picked it up by now and that someone here has heard it too. I will get back when I find out what is what but with Hainsey leaving maybe we are moving A Mart or maaaaaaybe someone else? I don't know anything solid yet.
Hopefully we can get one of their 3 2nd round picks or 2 3rd round picks.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:09 PM
  #83
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Hypothetically, we would need about 5 million in cap space to retain both Penner and Scuds should they decide to remain Kings and sign for less, right?

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06-27-2013, 07:12 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I am almost literally buried in draft info packs and stuff is happening so fast that it is next to impossible to keep up with everything. I heard we are possibly in talks with WPG. I was hoping that the media would have picked it up by now and that someone here has heard it too. I will get back when I find out what is what but with Hainsey leaving maybe we are moving A Mart or maaaaaaybe someone else? I don't know anything solid yet.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:18 PM
  #85
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Bodog has the Kings as the favorites for Iginla. How we can fit him under the cap I don't know, but it would be an awesome fit.

With that said, I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:23 PM
  #86
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Watch the one year we don't want a big name, we get one

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:24 PM
  #87
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Bring on Andrew Ladd! (I know, that's not happening).

Other than Ladd, I don't see a fit with a player the Kings could use from Winnipeg, unless the Kings are unloading a player to the Jets for a pick (or picks).

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06-27-2013, 07:34 PM
  #88
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What's the general consensus around here about keeping Martinez vs. Muzzin? I would much rather trade Muzz. Martinez is a good player and has more to offer than Muzz in my opinion. Muzz just doesn't seem to "get it" and I get a feeling from interviews and such that he's not the brightest cat out there.

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06-27-2013, 07:38 PM
  #89
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Muzzin is a big question mark. Either good or bad.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:42 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoForRoughing View Post
Bodog has the Kings as the favorites for Iginla. How we can fit him under the cap I don't know, but it would be an awesome fit.

With that said, I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
I wonder (a) what they base this on and (b) how often they are correct

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:43 PM
  #91
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I think Martinez is significantly smarter than Muzzin, makes better decisions with the puck, but he has trouble when facing aggressive and big teams (but so does Muzzin). Muzzin probably has the higher upside though due to his shot. Tough to say who stays and who goes. Preferably, would like to see both kept around so at the very least we have a competent #7 dman who can be inserted into the lineup without a hitch.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:53 PM
  #92
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I agree I maybe keep Muzzin or another season. I'm absolutely fine getting rid of Ellerby.

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:55 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think Martinez is significantly smarter than Muzzin, makes better decisions with the puck, but he has trouble when facing aggressive and big teams (but so does Muzzin). Muzzin probably has the higher upside though due to his shot. Tough to say who stays and who goes. Preferably, would like to see both kept around so at the very least we have a competent #7 dman who can be inserted into the lineup without a hitch.
Spot on analysis. And for what they make in terms of salary, I don't think we could do much better. Ellerby was making more than both of them.

Out of the two, I would think Alec has the higher value around the league. He was great in the cup final, plus he's a little more of a known quantity.

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Old
06-27-2013, 08:23 PM
  #94
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A-Mart makes for a very solid decent #5-6 Dman ... he plays smart, knows when and how to pinch, skates well, is good on the PP and tends to get his shot through. I'd agree with Ziggy in that Martinez can struggle when facing bigger more aggressive opposition, though NOT to a point where I'd say he get's man handled by them. In short he's a Very POOR Man's version of Voynov in many ways.

ALL that said I think he's reached his full potential as an NHL defenseman, and for whatever reason we've seen and read reports that Sutter doesn't seem to favor the kid or like him for whatever particular reason ? He does have his name on the Cup however and therefore he's most likely the one dealt for something in return. I could see getting a 2nd+ for A-mart ? or package him with other picks of ours to move up in the draft ?

Muzzin, IMO has more potential upside and is looking like he will continue to progress, and will have a good chance of reaching that potential, therefore I'd like to hang on to him over A-Mart. Muzzin was also a solid #5-6 Dman as a rookie, but also showed he could play alongside Doughty over long stretches of games as a #2 guy ... he's not a dumb hockey player, despite what some of you want to think, he's just a rookie and learning and made typical rookie mistakes, I think he will improve over time under Sutter. He too skates well for a bigger body, is also good on the PP and tends to get his shot through. Likewise he struggled when facing aggressive bigger opposition, but I think he'll learn better balance and how to use his body more as he grows into it and matures. Most likely he'll be our #6 and paired with Greener most of this coming year, so his minutes and exposure to tougher competition will be protected and he'll do just fine.
He reminds me some of Phillipe Boucher, another late bloomer that we gave up on just a fraction too soon, and regretted it ever since, let's not make the same mistake again !

Ellerby, I see as a RE-work in progress. The Kid was a former 1st round pick and has potential in him, but I think Florida mishandled him and did no favors with his development. He'll most likely be our #7 D man and with a full training camp and more time under Sutter and our Kings staff, I can see us hanging on to him and the Kid becoming the long term replacement for the likes of a Scuderi / Mitchell / Greene type of SAH D man roll. In fact that's most likely what Lombardi is thinking too, and Regehr is the 2 year stop gap / place holder while Ellerby continues to develop. He's a bit of a wild card, as guys like Deslauriers, Forbort, Roach or Gravel may overtake him in the prospect ranks, but at least as of now he's older, further along and more ready than these other kids to step in and replace Scuderi / Mitchell / Greene / Regehr when the time comes.

All our other D-men (Deslauriers, Forbort, Roach or Gravel) need a lot more time in Manchester, or in some cases, Andrew Campbell, just won't make it to the NHL level at least as an LA KING.


Last edited by Puck U: 06-27-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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06-27-2013, 08:31 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
We should just sign Scuderi and go over cap-wise for the time being. Not sure if the new CBA still allows for offseason overage (clarification on this?) but Mitchell is still on LTIR as far as I know. Then when we have a clearer picture of Mitchell's status, make necessary trades, buyouts, whatever needs to be done to get back under the cap. Is this not an option or am I naive?
Yes we can go over the cap by 10% in the off-season. But we can't do buyouts that won't hurt us after July 4th. Trades could happen but with us being over the cap and trading to get under teams could, and would, stick it to us. Mitchell was never placed on LTIR he was just a non-roster player.

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06-27-2013, 08:40 PM
  #96
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Someone said something about Holloway... just guessing, but at this point I believe he's going to shop around as an UFA... that's 6 more days for him.... maybe a week or two after that .... we hear he's accepted an offer or he comes back to talk to the kings...

Anyone think we may see a trade for a young guy on an EL contract? Basically another way of filling a top 6 position without a huge cap hit.... something like WPJ's Mark Scheifele making 1.5 till 2016...

Not saying Mark would be a target just used as an example... don't know much about his game... but filling a top 6 spot for around a 1.5 mill cap would help... Also bonuses get pushed off to the next year, I believe. That could help this year and make green/brown extensions harder next year. Down side is what would have to be traded.. If around equal value could be a wash with cap relief coming to the kings from a team that has cap space and needs to fill a hole....

After hearing a few posts up, how many 2'nds and 3rds the jets have my bets on moving bot 6 guys to target those .... get us some more Cliffords/Toffolies in the second..

With all the teams out there looking hard at Scuderi 4mill 4 years would not surprise me... lots of teams with tons of cap space via buyouts looking to beef up on D. Also can't see Penner going for less then 3 million.... on Left wing there aren't a lot of options.. Clowe, landergiant (no idea how to spell that guys name), Bickell, Stahlberg, all 3+ million some more +'s on some of them. I just don't see Penner dropping below 3 with all the teams clearing cap space and looking for size upfront...

If the kings are going to try to hold 2 of Penner/Scuderi/Mitchell some major pieces have to be moved and some retooling of the lines... Who knows.. DL may just rock Brown/Frattin/Clifford/King/Pearson down the left and be done with it

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06-27-2013, 10:18 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Penner should've used this classic Patrick Roy line:

I will forever and always love Roy for making JR look like the ***** that he is.

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I would rather not move Martinez. At all.
This. Muzzin hasn't earned the spot over AMart IMO. Both to me are still fighting for that #6 spot and competition breeds better results.

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I'd trade Ellerby for a pick to shed some salary.
This. AHL or trade. I don't care. Just not on the Kings.

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06-28-2013, 03:53 AM
  #98
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Move muzz up to the second pairing. We can't afford to sign scuderi long term as we'll have too many FAs coming up. Bring in toffoli an d frattin, maybe Holloway. We're set to go I believe. One thing with this team, we gotta keep a good size. We're getting a little smaller with penner leaving and to this team, size is very important for chemistry.

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06-28-2013, 04:18 AM
  #99
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Move muzz up to the second pairing. We can't afford to sign scuderi long term as we'll have too many FAs coming up. Bring in toffoli an d frattin, maybe Holloway. We're set to go I believe. One thing with this team, we gotta keep a good size. We're getting a little smaller with penner leaving and to this team, size is very important for chemistry.
So you want Muzzin and Voynov as a pairing......??? Uhh....

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Old
06-28-2013, 04:28 AM
  #100
Ziggy Stardust
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So you want Muzzin and Voynov as a pairing......??? Uhh....
Y'see, what he plans to do is to move Justin Williams to LW and shift Voynov to be the top RW on the team. He will trade Dustin Brown because he's a bum, and have Willie Mitchell return as a center to replace the departing Jarret Stoll, since he uses a big stick and he could use that to win faceoffs against bigger centers. I think that's how his mind operates.

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