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Current Habs edition: 5 most overrated players on these boards

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:41 PM
  #26
Shabutie
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
He's only overrated if he doesn't improve from his play so far this season.
Not really. Some people regarded him as top 5. Though he might be behind a defence such as Calgary's, he never will be here. A goalie such as Huet who relies on his positioning has a tendency to depend on his players. Which is why I always prefered Aebischer, even if he does have consistency issues. You'll see that as our D gets better Huet will start shinning again.

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10-19-2006, 12:44 PM
  #27
les Habs
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Any list of overrated players in this thread that doesn't have Kostitsyn isn't complete.

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:44 PM
  #28
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Wouldn't you be? He's a 19-year old kid, and might have ended a career. Such things aren't easy to shrug off when you're so young.

4th line time is going to serve him better than another season in junior. I do expect they'll send him to the AHL next season unless he improves by leaps and bounds. There's always the possiblity of him getting sent back to junior this season, too.
It's friggin Dimaio. I understand if the guy was Wayne Gretzky or Evgeni Malkin or some other star, but I wouldn't care the least bit if I had finished Dimaio's career...especially after all the bickering he made.

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:44 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Latendresse: Has the POTENTIAL to become a good top 6 forward, but nowhere near the hype heís been getting. Donít know if he can ever become a great POWER-FORWARD. Has not shown great physicality so far, and although he hit a lot to get a spot on the team, itís not part of his natural game and he doesnít that mean streak needed.

Plekanec: A good two-way forward with great speed and decent skills. Will not be a great second centerman who can put up 60+ points. If he can put up 40-50, that would be great, but thatís the definition of a 3rd center on a contending team these days.

Bouillon: A reliable 6th defenseman, not top 4 material on any contending team. May look like top 4 on OUR team in some games, but thatís no compliment to our defensive corp.

Perezhogin: Has the potential, but heís a long way from achieving that potential, at least the one that many posters expect from him on these boards.

Begin: Tons of heart and grit, but still a fourth liner. Not the heart and soul of this team nor one of the most valuable players on this team as some here make him out to be.

This is no knock on any of these players, but itís sometimes a little annoying how overrated they are with many posters on these boards that Iíve been reading for 2+ years now.

Now watch the fanboys come out with guns blazingÖ
I am going to avoid calling anyone over or underrated but want to add my 2 cents on these players.

Latendresse: I have finally seen some games. I do like his size and his hands and his willingness to go into the tough areas of the ice. However, I am majorly concerned about his skating. He is noticeably slower on the ice.

Plekanec: Just a solid 2 way player that can do everything. Great speed, plays bigger then his size. But, I am not convinced that he is the solution as the #2 centre, offensively. But, he is young, so he can mature offensively. Ideally, I'd prefer to see him as the #3 centre.

Bouillion: Great skater, as solid as anyone on his skates. Another player who plays bigger than his size. Good outlet passer and smart. No issues with him as #5 or 6 d-man

Begin: I think everyone got overly excited last year when he had his great month offensively. Begin is not about offence..every goal from him is a bonus. As the 4th centre, you get a gritty defensive minded player willing to do what it takes to win. He plays the PK and will chip in the odd goal. People - this is his role on the club

Perezhogin: Was my breakout player to score 20 before a sub-standard training camp. He has all the offensive tools to be a goal-scorer and works the boards well. Right now, I get the sense he is struggling with his confidence. Once he gains confidence, I think we will see the pucks go in the net with some regularity

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Not really. Some people regarded him as top 5. Though he might be behind a defence such as Calgary's, he never will be here. A goalie such as Huet who relies on his positioning has a tendency to depend on his players. Which is why I always prefered Aebischer, even if he does have consistency issues. You'll see that as our D gets better Huet will start shinning again.
I actually really like having both Aebischer and Huet, because they complement each other really well. Huet plays purely a positional game, so when we're playing a team where our defense will keep them in check, Huet will be able to post good numbers and keep the pucks out. Aebischer has more talent than Huet, but is less positionally sound, so when we play a team with lots of playmakers (for instance Ottawa or Buffalo) he can use his greater natural ability to make saves, because position alone isn't going to keep us in the game. It's a win-win situation, and I hope that neither goaltender gets frustrated by playing a 1a/1b role this season.

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:50 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
It's friggin Dimaio. I understand if the guy was Wayne Gretzky or Evgeni Malkin or some other star, but I wouldn't care the least bit if I had finished Dimaio's career...especially after all the bickering he made.
Wow that's one mighty powerful conscience you have there! Seriously, do you feel at all? It doesn't matter how good the guy is (just ask Bertuzzi), it's that you severely hurt a fellow human being.

What's the difference between running over a homeless guy and a company CEO in a car? Lawsuits aside, nothing.

[edit] Bah you're like 19 years old, nevermind. Grow up.

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:51 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Latendresse: Has the POTENTIAL to become a good top 6 forward, but nowhere near the hype heís been getting. Donít know if he can ever become a great POWER-FORWARD. Has not shown great physicality so far, and although he hit a lot to get a spot on the team, itís not part of his natural game and he doesnít that mean streak needed.
Agree 100%. I think we could have another Terry Ryan on our hands, but most likely a Chad Kilger Patrick Poulin clone. Enough with the hype. The kid isn't physical, and his speed is nowhere near NHL quality.

Quote:
Plekanec: A good two-way forward with great speed and decent skills. Will not be a great second centerman who can put up 60+ points. If he can put up 40-50, that would be great, but thatís the definition of a 3rd center on a contending team these days.
He's soft, and probably a 30 point guy. I'd love to see him moved for a little more size and grit.

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Bouillon: A reliable 6th defenseman, not top 4 material on any contending team. May look like top 4 on OUR team in some games, but thatís no compliment to our defensive corp.
Agree.

Quote:
Perezhogin: Has the potential, but heís a long way from achieving that potential, at least the one that many posters expect from him on these boards.
Reminds me of Oleg Petrov, instead of Afinogenov, which were what the scouting reports touted him as.

Quote:
Begin: Tons of heart and grit, but still a fourth liner. Not the heart and soul of this team nor one of the most valuable players on this team as some here make him out to be.
I'm not a huge Begin fan, but there's a spot for him on this team. I like his role, his effort.. can't complain about that too much.



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Now watch the fanboys come out with guns blazingÖ
Well, thats the fun part.

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:52 PM
  #33
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Perez reminds me Bulis it's not even funny.

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:54 PM
  #34
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I agree with your entire post top to bottom.... we can hope the young players

reach there potential, but until then we do overrate them. The only young guy

that has lived up to some of the hype around here would be higgins. I also agree

with the begin comments, a good checker who gives 100%, but far from the

heart and soul of the team. Koivu, with all the crap he has gone through, along

with the way he plays the game, and the number of years he has been with the

team, is the only one who would deserve that kind of praise. Good post

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Old
10-19-2006, 12:56 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
[Perezogin] Reminds me of Oleg Petrov, instead of Afinogenov, which were what the scouting reports touted him as.
Look how long it took Afinogenov to become a good player. He's 27 and had his first good season last year. Perezhogin won't be as good offensively as Maxim, but he'll be much better defensively.

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Old
10-19-2006, 01:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Wow that's one mighty powerful conscience you have there! Seriously, do you feel at all? It doesn't matter how good the guy is (just ask Bertuzzi), it's that you severely hurt a fellow human being.

What's the difference between running over a homeless guy and a company CEO in a car? Lawsuits aside, nothing.

[edit] Bah you're like 19 years old, nevermind. Grow up.
Hey, I'm not taking the guy's side, but you are 22. Not that much older.

I'm 26, I'm an old man, so I get to tell you that.

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Old
10-19-2006, 01:07 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Latendresse: Has the POTENTIAL to become a good top 6 forward, but nowhere near the hype he’s been getting. Don’t know if he can ever become a great POWER-FORWARD. Has not shown great physicality so far, and although he hit a lot to get a spot on the team, it’s not part of his natural game and he doesn’t that mean streak needed.

Plekanec: A good two-way forward with great speed and decent skills. Will not be a great second centerman who can put up 60+ points. If he can put up 40-50, that would be great, but that’s the definition of a 3rd center on a contending team these days.

Bouillon: A reliable 6th defenseman, not top 4 material on any contending team. May look like top 4 on OUR team in some games, but that’s no compliment to our defensive corp.

Perezhogin: Has the potential, but he’s a long way from achieving that potential, at least the one that many posters expect from him on these boards.

Begin: Tons of heart and grit, but still a fourth liner. Not the heart and soul of this team nor one of the most valuable players on this team as some here make him out to be.

This is no knock on any of these players, but it’s sometimes a little annoying how overrated they are with many posters on these boards that I’ve been reading for 2+ years now.

Now watch the fanboys come out with guns blazing…
Koivu should be at the top of your list ! And please, don't call him "GOD". This is a blasphemy !


Last edited by habitue*: 10-19-2006 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
10-19-2006, 01:08 PM
  #38
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Over-rated
Huet: Although he had a great run last year you could tell that his lateral movement was an issue. He doesn't have the speed required to be a #1 in the NHL.

Latendresse: Give him some time, but for now his potential is over-rated.

Plekanec: As was said above, he's got decent hands, but he's no 2nd line center in the NHL. We can try him there...but I believe it's due to a lack of a better option.

Souray (over-rated in the NHL): Soooo slow.......sooooo poor defensively. nuff said.

Rivet: see above. The only difference is that his poor defensive play had disappeared last year...and is now back.


Under-rated
Bonk: People see him as a liability but I actually think he is one of the better shut-down centers in the league. I can understand the argument that his salary is a bit on the high side, but at the right price I'd take Bonk in the lineup anyday.

Niinima: A great pickup by Bob. Isn't the best 2.5M D-man out there...but certainly adds speed and experience to our D.

As for the others I think they are viewed for what they are.

Oh and for the record, nobody on the Habs roster or in the system will crack the 100pts anytime soon (not Higgins, Perez, Kosty, Lats, etc.).


Last edited by Ludo: 10-19-2006 at 01:13 PM.
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Old
10-19-2006, 01:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Wow that's one mighty powerful conscience you have there! Seriously, do you feel at all? It doesn't matter how good the guy is (just ask Bertuzzi), it's that you severely hurt a fellow human being.

What's the difference between running over a homeless guy and a company CEO in a car? Lawsuits aside, nothing.

[edit] Bah you're like 19 years old, nevermind. Grow up.
hmmm let's see here...Bertuzzi was a blatant attack from behind

Lats was finishing a check...

not at ALL the same thing.

I know it sucks for the dude that Lats *may* of ended his career, but in the end man, nobody actually cares. He's not my friend, he's not part of my family. I dont know the dude.

Clearl you're the re-incarnation of Mother Theresa. There's people in Iraq who need plenty of compassion. Those are a lil more important then some fringe player's career.

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10-19-2006, 01:18 PM
  #40
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Komisarek is another that was hyped to death. I personally never saw the Stevens compairisons, I hate comparing any prospect to any nhler, it is just silly imo. Just about all 1st rounders will get hyped, especially when they are a top 10 pick. It's been a long road of development, but imo I am very impressed with the way he's playing and hope to see him continue to get better. I still don't know how much more he will progress, and while it's taken him a couple years, I really like where he's at and if he can get better, that would be outstanding for the teams future.
While compairing him with stevens is way off, even you have to admit he is more punishing this year then what you expected.

I remember you saying that Komisarek would be physical but he would be more willing to push the opponant over rather then punish him with huge check. Clearly this year has shown different.

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Old
10-19-2006, 01:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The n00b King © View Post
hmmm let's see here...Bertuzzi was a blatant attack from behind

Lats was finishing a check...

not at ALL the same thing.

I know it sucks for the dude that Lats *may* of ended his career, but in the end man, nobody actually cares. He's not my friend, he's not part of my family. I dont know the dude.

Clearl you're the re-incarnation of Mother Theresa. There's people in Iraq who need plenty of compassion. Those are a lil more important then some fringe player's career.
Ahh.. the indifference of Man rears its head once more.

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10-19-2006, 01:22 PM
  #42
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Look how long it took Afinogenov to become a good player. He's 27 and had his first good season last year. Perezhogin won't be as good offensively as Maxim, but he'll be much better defensively.
Took the words right out of my mouth... what exactly was Afinogenov doing in this league when he was 22/23?

Perezhogin might be getting old as a PROSPECT, but he is still very young as an NHLER... there IS a difference.

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Old
10-19-2006, 01:28 PM
  #43
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Ahh.. the indifference of Man rears its head once more.
Yup. Indiffirent to the fact that DiMaio might have to find another job. Yup yup, that's me.

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Old
10-19-2006, 01:38 PM
  #44
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Look how long it took Afinogenov to become a good player. He's 27 and had his first good season last year. Perezhogin won't be as good offensively as Maxim, but he'll be much better defensively.
Great point - way too much focus is put on the younger players. Night in/night out it's the vet's that will decide the outcome of games.

That being said, I thought the Habs played well enough last night to win. They could of put the game away in the second period, Khabibulin stood on his head, and they ran out od steam in the third.

Player Eval's after 6 games

Huet: (B) Has played well enough, although I keep hearing McGuire in my head (Please stop). Shoot out aside, played solid.

Abeschir: (B) Still not a big fan of his unorthodox style.

Souray: (B-) Becoming a unidimensional player - much cheaper version of McCabe. 23:00 minutes a game is too much.

Rivet: (C+) Doesn't seem as comfortable nor as effective as last year. Needs to pick up offensive game.

Markov (B-) - Enigma, I don't think he is a true number 1 although he plays number 1 minutes. Looks disinterested at times.

Komi (A-) - Skating has improved, most effective d-man so far

Niinimaa (C+) - Not as bad as annouced although his puck carrying decisions need to improve. If he simplifies his game he will be more effective. Like to see him get more PP time.

Streit (B-) Liked what I saw so far, I hope Carbo gives him some more responsibilities to see how he responds.

Dandeneault (B-) I thought he was having a solid start of the season.

Koivu: (A-) Slowed down the last two games but off to a good start.

Higgins: (A+) Already the Habs best player, play like a seasoned veteran

Ryder: (A) My surprise of the year. New found speed and energy always dangerous. Thank god we didn't trade him.

Kovalev (B-) He looks somewhat disinterested, but still a constant force.

Plakanec (C+) - Not a second line center, at least not yet. Either that or he's in awe of his linemates. Was more agressive in his role of last year.

Samsonov (C-) Only reason he doesn't get a D is because of his goal on Tuesday. Not sure he is in the best spot yet.

Bonk (B) - Great comeback season so far.

Johnson (B) - What's not to like, size, speed, heady player. Perfect 3rd liner.

Perezhogin (B) - Let's give him some time. Effort is there, great speed, just needs to finish.

Begin (C) - Less effective so far this year.

Downey (B) - Loved what he was bringing before injury. Good energy guy.

Murray (D) - Less effective also.

Latendresse (C) - Not quite sure he is ready for prime time.

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Old
10-19-2006, 01:43 PM
  #45
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Wow that's one mighty powerful conscience you have there! Seriously, do you feel at all? It doesn't matter how good the guy is (just ask Bertuzzi), it's that you severely hurt a fellow human being.

What's the difference between running over a homeless guy and a company CEO in a car? Lawsuits aside, nothing.

[edit] Bah you're like 19 years old, nevermind. Grow up.
You're comparing what Bertz did to what Latendresse made...Smarten up.

Lats finished his check (which looked perfectly legal), it's not his fault that Dimaio is made like a china doll. Do you think Ryder had any second thoughts when he injured Havlat? Injuries happen in this game, it's not Lats fault that he finished Dimaio's career therefore he shouldn't have any second thoughts.

I really don't care about Dimaio and I really don't care about Moore...Sure the incident was aweful, but who remembers the guy?

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10-19-2006, 01:53 PM
  #46
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I think over rated and under rated are kind of meaningless terms. We do what we do here, a bad game inflates a player and a good game deflates him. It has nothing to do with the player though.


I look at a guy like Higgins. He's the type of player I like. He has skill, he shows up to owrk every night, he has games hwere he isn't as effective, but he's a good example of what you like to see in a pro.

Ryder seems to be in the process of having his play catch up with his numbers.

Plekanec a really useful player, can do a lot of things, I just don't know what role he'll eventually settle into. Maybe a Houle/Brylin type, it's hard to say.

Perezhogin He's been doing all theright things, but I don't think he's quite an upper echelon type of player, nor will he be. He can be useful though, speed and forechecking are valuable if the player is willing,unlike bullis.

Koivu He is what he is. We get all that his body allows. I respect him a lot, I wish we could see the player he could have been but that's life. Were any other players of his ilk or better ringing up Gainey ? Then be happy he stayed.

Latendresse I don't think we have enough to go on in judging the kid yet. He's tentative on the ice, standing still as 3rd man high, not reading his linemates yet. I wonder if he's wrapped up in trying to play fundamental positional hockey and not letting loose. Time will tell. He has to show that he's willing to be a presence though, and he's been noticeably uncomfortable. I'm disappointed, but hey, 6 games.

I don't think either goalie is great or terrible.

On defense, I think Markov has to show a lot to be considered top 30 right now.

Rivet,Souray,JN and co. are all similar, they contribute, work hard have flaws, none are all stars none are terrible.


The team has a good young core. Higgins,Komisarek,Ryder, Plekanec and Perezhogin all play with some passion, and should have good carreeers. I have no problem with any of them. I like the potential of Latendresse and Price. The team has the same issue though, a top end player who the team feeds off of.

As for Kovalev, the fact that he does things others can't may cause some to overrate him. The fact that he can't impose his ability on every game causes many to underate him.

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Old
10-19-2006, 02:04 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
You're comparing what Bertz did to what Latendresse made...Smarten up.

Lats finished his check (which looked perfectly legal), it's not his fault that Dimaio is made like a china doll. Do you think Ryder had any second thoughts when he injured Havlat? Injuries happen in this game, it's not Lats fault that he finished Dimaio's career therefore he shouldn't have any second thoughts.

I really don't care about Dimaio and I really don't care about Moore...Sure the incident was aweful, but who remembers the guy?
I remember Moore. He's a Harvard grad who wasn't expected to make it but did but got attacked so now he can't play anymore so is considered a bad guy because he doesn't want to away and hide. I know who he is and wish he could still make a living in hockey. Bertuzzi, I care less about. As for the stories surrounding these guys, well globally I worry more about hearing about death and destruction, I care because I care about hockey. I remeber Dimaio playing in the WJC. He's always been a tough little sob, and it's sad that hi stime will end not of his own choice.

I felt bad when it happened to Mondou,Cam Neely, Fischer in Detroit, and for that matter Jean Hamel though he was a 7th d man not a star. Dismissing them makes you look small Shabutie. I don't think it reflects the way you are but you can't expect a different reaction.

I'm not going to church lighting a candle for either guy, but they're guys who made a living playing a game I enjoy and leaving due to injury matters. It matters the same as a bigger name.

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10-19-2006, 02:10 PM
  #48
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I remember Moore. He's a Harvard grad who wasn't expected to make it but did but got attacked so now he can't play anymore so is considered a bad guy because he doesn't want to away and hide. I know who he is and wish he could still make a living in hockey. Bertuzzi, I care less about. As for the stories surrounding these guys, well globally I worry more about hearing about death and destruction, I care because I care about hockey. I remeber Dimaio playing in the WJC. He's always been a tough little sob, and it's sad that hi stime will end not of his own choice.

I felt bad when it happened to Mondou,Cam Neely, Fischer in Detroit, and for that matter Jean Hamel though he was a 7th d man not a star. Dismissing them makes you look small Shabutie. I don't think it reflects the way you are but you can't expect a different reaction.

I'm not going to church lighting a candle for either guy, but they're guys who made a living playing a game I enjoy and leaving due to injury matters. It matters the same as a bigger name.
I'm not dissmissing them...It sucks for them that they don't get to live out there dream anymore...but **** happens.

I don't understand how Latendresse would actually regret what he did...He finished his check. It's unfortunate that Dimaio got injured...but he did what he had to do. Hell that check might've been the thing that made Latendresse join the team this season. He needs to get back to playing the body and not fearing injuring anyone (if that's what's bothering him).

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Old
10-19-2006, 02:15 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Rydified View Post
While compairing him with stevens is way off, even you have to admit he is more punishing this year then what you expected.

I remember you saying that Komisarek would be physical but he would be more willing to push the opponant over rather then punish him with huge check. Clearly this year has shown different.
His physical play was never the concern though, it was his reads and reactions, he seemed to lack hockey sense in his own end when he first came up but he's made some big time strides, which is great to see. When he was at Michigan, he was freakishly strong, so that he didn't need to level someone, he could just shove them over and make it look like little effort was needed to do so. Once he started playing against grown men, it was clear he wouldn't be able to just shove players, although he can still do that with some.


Quote:
Koivu should be at the top of your list ! And please, don't call him "GOD". This is a blasphemy !
says you. I hate it when people bash Koivu, but with over 8 billion people in the world, the gene pool has been spread too thin, so we are overrun with morons and #@*%offs.

Quote:
I also agreewith the begin comments, a good checker who gives 100%, but far from theheart and soul of the team
If Begin isn't a heart and soul of the team, who is?

Quote:
I'm not a huge Begin fan
How can anyone not be a Begin fan, it's just wrong!

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Old
10-19-2006, 02:36 PM
  #50
Habnot
 
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
You're comparing what Bertz did to what Latendresse made...Smarten up.

Lats finished his check (which looked perfectly legal), it's not his fault that Dimaio is made like a china doll. Do you think Ryder had any second thoughts when he injured Havlat? Injuries happen in this game, it's not Lats fault that he finished Dimaio's career therefore he shouldn't have any second thoughts.

I really don't care about Dimaio and I really don't care about Moore...Sure the incident was aweful, but who remembers the guy?
Yes injuries happen but let's not kid ourselves. Hockey players know when they are lowering the boom and possibly hurting the other player. Anyone that says that Lats didn't have an intent to injure is diluding themselves. There was no reason to hit DiMaio, the puck was gone and DiMaio was standing still. Also, Lats came across the ice completely to level DiMaio. The same goes for Regyhr and he was honest about his intention in an after game interview. He saw it as an opportunity to wake up his team and if that meant delviering a head shot, so be it. It's nice to hide behind the "legality" of the hit. That means nothing. The hit can be legal but you still have the intent to injure.

Although it seriously pains me, I have to agree with McGuire. The NHL should work on eliminating head shots.

As for the Moore reference, this is truly in poor taste. Bertuzzi deserved to go to jail for what he did.

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