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Messier Leaves the Rangers Organization

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Old
06-27-2013, 11:05 PM
  #76
smackdaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Here's an in-depth look at Mark Messier's time in Vancouver:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1385597

Gino Odjick, one of the NHL's great enforcers and a long-time member of the Vancouver Canucks, was asked about this in interview Dan Russell of CKNW 980 this past Thursday (April 4th, 2013). Odjick had been very outspoken at the time of Messier's arrival about how vile the latter's presence was to the team. His view has not changed. The full interview is a half-hour long, part of Russell's series about the hockey journey of NHL players from youth to retirement. I've posted the segment in which Gino discusses his time with the Canucks, his fights, and his friendships. The team was very close-knit prior to Messier's arrival.

Inevitably, the issue of Mark Messier and Mike Keenan was brought up, and Gino was clear to state he believes Messier and Keenan destroyed the dressing room. Nobody on the team was comfortable with how Keenan and Messier imposed their authority on the organization:

13:00:



I discussed this in the other thread, but I'll re-post some of it here. Ken Daniels and Mickey Redmond of the Detroit Red Wings broadcasts provided the commentary for one of my archived games from early in the 1997-98 NHL season. During the broadcast, they make many observations regarding Messier's play. In an MSG broadcast, John Davidson remarks the same. Messier took short shifts, was not physical, and looked very disinterested. He simply gave up on plays and didn't care much to join the team on the rush, going through the motions without any intensity in his game.

Here is a fight involving Messier from the 1998-99 season. Aside from the fight itself, the more glaring detail is the comment Jim Robson, the Canucks' legendary play-by-play announcer (and member of the Hockey Hall of Fame), makes in the following video clip:

"We haven't seen that from Messier for two seasons."










Also noted is his villainy in the 1994 Stanley Cup Finals:



Tell us more how he stole Stanley Cups, money, hope, etc. from Vancouver.

I think this story gets bigger and bigger every time Canuck fans speak about it.

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06-27-2013, 11:09 PM
  #77
Sonny Lamateena
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Canucks fans despise Mark Messier for many valid reasons and a number of myths. For example Trevor Linden didn't give the captaincy to Messier out of respect he gave it to him out of fear. He was afraid that if the team failed and he didn't give the C to Messier with his reputation he would be blamed.

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06-27-2013, 11:17 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Let's get one thing straight... For all the people defending him by saying he's not a sore loser cause his resignation has nothing to do with being passed over on the coaching position , I pose one question. Would he still be with the Rangers had he been named head coach ? Yes. It's even been reported by Sather that not receiving the job was part of the reason. Vigneault was the right choice, he'll bring this team to another level. That's not taking anything away from Torts who is a great coach. NHL coaching is a revolving door.
Is this worded wrong? Why would he quit after being named coach?

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06-27-2013, 11:29 PM
  #79
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Is this worded wrong? Why would he quit after being named coach?
Because it makes no sense.

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06-27-2013, 11:38 PM
  #80
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http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/S...425/story.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Tell us more how he stole Stanley Cups, money, hope, etc. from Vancouver.

I think this story gets bigger and bigger every time Canuck fans speak about it.
It's undoubtedly a part of Mark Messier's career that tends to be overlooked. The recent series of events regarding his coaching ambitions further supports the notion of his attitude being perhaps standoffish and unwelcome, especially in regards to an area of expertise he has no legitimate experience being a part of.

Not everyone is aware of the story of Messier and Vancouver. I feel it's important to examine in order to give a clearer sense of what went wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Canucks fans despise Mark Messier for many valid reasons and a number of myths. For example Trevor Linden didn't give the captaincy to Messier out of respect he gave it to him out of fear. He was afraid that if the team failed and he didn't give the C to Messier with his reputation he would be blamed.
I don't think we'll ever hear from Linden what he thought at the time, but below is the reason he gave officially, published in a Vancouver Sun article in 2008:

www.vancouversun.com/sports/Sixteen+defining+moments+Trevor+Linden+career/1068425/story.html
Quote:
Linden claimed the decision to hand over the 'C' was his and his alone. "I didn't know what I was going to do and I didn't want to make a quick decision," Linden explained. "I wanted to see how it played out. You know, the day I was driving from Whistler to go to the [Messier signing] announcement I turned on the radio in my car and the first thing I heard was 'would Messier be captain?' "I was monitoring the situation and was waiting to see what felt right. And it just felt right. Now I'll be apprenticing under one of the best leaders in professional sport." Long-time Canuck GM Pat Quinn nodded his approval. "Let's face it, we acquired a player who has an aura of leadership about him," Quinn said of Messier. "Trevor felt it would be better to defer the captaincy to a person of Mark's presence and accomplishments." A month later, Quinn was fired. Four months later, Linden was traded to the New York Islanders.
Linden's relationship with the fans and the city of Vancouver had always been strong. I don't think in reality anyone would have blamed Linden, nor was that the feeling at the time. He remains the most-beloved player in franchise history to this day. When Linden was traded there was a unanimous sense of resentment and anger from the fanbase towards Messier and Keenan. Nobody blamed Linden for the team's failures that season, and the captaincy wouldn't have changed how fans perceived him.

If he was worried about his reputation being hurt, it would have been due to his own modesty rather than the pressures of the fanbase. Had Linden not surrendered the captaincy to Messier, the latter still would have been the highest-paid player on the team, making more than twice as much as Linden.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...intso_canucks/
Quote:
Keenan replaced Renney and was given the authority to make personnel changes. He did just that. From his arrival, Keenan feuded with Linden, and the coach got rid of his problem, angering the Vancouver fans.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 06-27-2013 at 11:49 PM.
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06-28-2013, 12:00 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Linden's relationship with the fans and the city of Vancouver had always been strong. I don't think in reality anyone would have blamed Linden, nor was that the feeling at the time. He remains the most-beloved player in franchise history to this day. When Linden was traded there was a unanimous sense of resentment and anger from the fanbase towards Messier and Keenan. Nobody blamed Linden for the team's failures that season, and the captaincy wouldn't have changed how fans perceived him.

If he was worried about his reputation being hurt, it would have been due to his own modesty rather than the pressures of the fanbase. Had Linden not surrendered the captaincy to Messier, the latter still would have been the highest-paid player on the team, making more than twice as much as Linden.
]
Check out the book Messier by Jeff Z. Klein it has a quote from an interview Trevor Linden did with Gary Mason where he gives the reason why he gave up the C and it's fear of getting blamed.

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06-28-2013, 12:29 AM
  #82
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Have to ask: If a captain is afraid of being blamed, taking a leadership role, and asserting his authority, and then sheepishly gives up his captaincy to the obvious alpha Messier, what kind of captain was he in the first place?

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06-28-2013, 12:33 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Check out the book Messier by Jeff Z. Klein it has a quote from an interview Trevor Linden did with Gary Mason where he gives the reason why he gave up the C and it's fear of getting blamed.
Can you post a quote? That doesn't sound like Linden.

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06-28-2013, 12:44 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Canucks5551 View Post
Can you post a quote? That doesn't sound like Linden.
"It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on."

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06-28-2013, 12:51 AM
  #85
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Wut. Do you know the history of any of the other awards?

The guy who donated the Hart Trophy named it after himself as well. And the Lady Byng. And the Art Ross.
Not true. Other than the earliest awards that they pretty much needed to be donated, most awards are named in honour or in memory of someone. Oftentimes the "memorial" part of the title gets left out.

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06-28-2013, 01:04 AM
  #86
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He's not showing good leadership by just leaving the organization!

I'll show myself the door...

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06-28-2013, 01:13 AM
  #87
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Messier isn't qualified to run a McDonalds, not to even mention the Rangers team

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06-28-2013, 01:27 AM
  #88
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İ'm happy, not because İ had anything against him, but because the work he's doing, and now focusing on, is great for the city

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06-28-2013, 01:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Vancouver wants no part of Mark Messier, that franchise is terrified of The Captain. I don't know if you know your history but he took their cup in 94, walked into their dressing room in 97 grabbed the retired number 11 jersey from the rafters, ripped the C off Trevor Linden's jersey and sent him packing, fired Tom Renney, fired Pat Quinn, hired Mike Keenan, traded some Canucks Legends, dogged it on the ice and laughed his way out of Vancouver with a wallet full of cash. Heck last year he went back and grabbed another $6 million from them just to remind them who's their daddy.
It took me a few minutes of wiping tears from my eyes, from laughing so hard, before I could respond to this. Perhaps you didn't mean it in a complimentary way, buy you succinctly summed up the...emotional(?)...impact that Mark Messier had on the Vancouver fanbase. It's funny because it's true.

The fact that he is, generally, highly regarded only lends itself to highten the sense of betrayal we felt from his "contribution" to our franchise.

That said, whatever. Lots has happened since then and we Canuck fans have bigger issues to worry about than whatever "The Captain" feels he is entitled to, professionally speaking.

Though, I can't help but chuckle if his departure was, infact, a result of the hiring of a former Canuck

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06-28-2013, 04:06 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Rob Nieds work ethic View Post


Oh man, damn you for making me laugh at Moose so hard.

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06-28-2013, 08:08 AM
  #91
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I guess he's upset over not getting the coaching job. If that's the reason he left then he's being a sore loser. Guy's never coached before so the Rangers were right to hire Alain Vigneault.

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06-28-2013, 09:16 AM
  #92
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Messier is upset that another distinction wasn't just handed to him.

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06-28-2013, 09:19 AM
  #93
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In this picture, Messier kinda resembles Sam the Eagle from The Muppet Show. Same facial expression.

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06-28-2013, 09:49 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Here's an in-depth look at Mark Messier's time in Vancouver:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1385597

Gino Odjick, one of the NHL's great enforcers and a long-time member of the Vancouver Canucks, was asked about this in interview Dan Russell of CKNW 980 this past Thursday (April 4th, 2013). Odjick had been very outspoken at the time of Messier's arrival about how vile the latter's presence was to the team. His view has not changed. The full interview is a half-hour long, part of Russell's series about the hockey journey of NHL players from youth to retirement. I've posted the segment in which Gino discusses his time with the Canucks, his fights, and his friendships. The team was very close-knit prior to Messier's arrival.

Inevitably, the issue of Mark Messier and Mike Keenan was brought up, and Gino was clear to state he believes Messier and Keenan destroyed the dressing room. Nobody on the team was comfortable with how Keenan and Messier imposed their authority on the organization:

13:00:



I discussed this in the other thread, but I'll re-post some of it here. Ken Daniels and Mickey Redmond of the Detroit Red Wings broadcasts provided the commentary for one of my archived games from early in the 1997-98 NHL season. During the broadcast, they make many observations regarding Messier's play. In an MSG broadcast, John Davidson remarks the same. Messier took short shifts, was not physical, and looked very disinterested. He simply gave up on plays and didn't care much to join the team on the rush, going through the motions without any intensity in his game.

Here is a fight involving Messier from the 1998-99 season. Aside from the fight itself, the more glaring detail is the comment Jim Robson, the Canucks' legendary play-by-play announcer (and member of the Hockey Hall of Fame), makes in the following video clip:

"We haven't seen that from Messier for two seasons."










After the way he destroyed the team, he now wanted money he felt he was owed. In truth, the team recorded its worst ever attendance at GM Place/Rogers Arena during the Messier years. Attendance in 1999-2000 averaged 14,641. The season after Messier was bought out, attendance rose to an average of 17,026 seats per game.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=8756

Also noted is his villainy in the 1994 Stanley Cup Finals:







That's just a brief look at Messier's history with the Canucks.
I've heard this story before and man... Messier really comes off like an ass. And he was an ass for coming after the team after he left. What a class A jackass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Canucks fans despise Mark Messier for many valid reasons and a number of myths. For example Trevor Linden didn't give the captaincy to Messier out of respect he gave it to him out of fear. He was afraid that if the team failed and he didn't give the C to Messier with his reputation he would be blamed.
I don't believe this for a second, this is total BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Have to ask: If a captain is afraid of being blamed, taking a leadership role, and asserting his authority, and then sheepishly gives up his captaincy to the obvious alpha Messier, what kind of captain was he in the first place?
Its an invalid question because it rests on a faulty assumption to begin with.

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06-28-2013, 11:02 AM
  #95
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Vancouver despises Mess so much, he's smart enough to know not to dine at any restaurants here.

Let's just say...Poppy's will get a little sloppy.

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06-28-2013, 11:41 AM
  #96
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I would give my life savings and my spleen for Messier to somehow be announced assistant coach of the Canucks today

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06-28-2013, 12:23 PM
  #97
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screw this guy. he is such an egomaniac and thinks he has should just be handed the reigns. i hate this man so much and yes i am biased.

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06-28-2013, 12:41 PM
  #98
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Messier's supreme "leadership" is one of the most ridiculous and over-hyped notions in hockey history. He got that label because he was an egomaniac and control freak, and because the media loves a story and milked that narrative for all it was worth. If his leadership skills were legitimately as good as they're buffed up to be he'd be an NHL coach already.

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06-28-2013, 01:33 PM
  #99
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Messier's supreme "leadership" is one of the most ridiculous and over-hyped notions in hockey history. He got that label because he was an egomaniac and control freak, and because the media loves a story and milked that narrative for all it was worth. If his leadership skills were legitimately as good as they're buffed up to be he'd be an NHL coach already.
The media definitely has been Messier's friend. I still remember the mid 90s and people saying that Yzerman wasn't a good enough leader and had to be more like Messier. Low and behold the guy wins three cups and is now considered one of the best leaders ever.

The media just spins **** and runs with it. Anyone think Messier is a better leader now? Personally I don't. The guy was a great player but his cheap shots would never, ever be tolerated in today's game. And I couldn't understand why teams just didn't take his head off. Anyways, there's no denying his talents or accomplishments but it's pretty interesting now that this great leader can't seem to get a coaching job in the NHL and the 'other guy' is an NHL GM and running Team Canada.

Then again there is the Mark Messier Leadership sponsored by Rolaids (or whoever the sponsor is this year) so...

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06-28-2013, 01:34 PM
  #100
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"we're going to win tonight"

all hail the leader!

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