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Colorado's Core vs. Edmonton's Core

View Poll Results: Which team has a better young core?
Colorado Avalanche 245 62.50%
Edmonton Oilers 147 37.50%
Voters: 392. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2013, 02:15 PM
  #76
topchowda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
colorado, and by a fair margin too



holy hyperbole, batman
RNH is average defensively, he is weak defensively if you're comparing him to other centre's that are on first lines for other teams
Yeah, really weak. (HF loves Corsi shot differentials still right?)

Quote:
Put shortly, he played much tougher minutes at age 19 than he did at age 18. More importantly, the Oilers fared better with Nugent-Hopkins on the ice in 2013 than they did in 2011-12, going from getting outshot 30-to-29 in an average hour of play to outshooting 34-to-31. Putting those data points together: Nugent-Hopkins went from losing the shots battle in carefully controlled minutes to winning the shots battle in extremely difficult minutes.

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06-27-2013, 02:30 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Yeah, really weak. (HF loves Corsi shot differentials still right?)
i hate corsi, and i'm on the record of saying that

Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
So you're basing this on your viewings of him in your capacity as a talent scout.

Ken Hitchcock was employed in that role for the Blue Jackets going into the 2011 draft. Here's his take on RNH:

My opinion on Nugent-Hopkins has changed last summer I thought he reminded me of Joe Sakic, but its Pavel Datsyuk now. He strips people of the puck, hes crafty in high-traffic areas, he dishes well, hes got great patience with the puck.

I suppose you are far better at evaluating defensive hockey players than Ken Hitchcock is though.
lots of players get compared to star players, in fact they do it every draft.

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06-27-2013, 04:58 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
All of the Oilers core are not even average defensively. Thats bad.
Maybe stick to making superstar fantasies out of your b-grade players (Turris = Messier!!!)

RNH is very good defensively and Hall is average. So there. Two players, just from watching a couple games would have shown you otherwise. But who has time for that when you have to stay up past 10 pm.

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06-27-2013, 05:19 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Elway View Post
Jones isn't the number 1

McDavid is the "Next Crosby", there hasn't been one of those sense the first Crosby (maybe Tavares but Bob said then that Stamkos would go over Johnny) so its not a "fair" comparison in the terms of this debate

I have yet to hear anyone from the next class be stated as better than Mackinnon



I hope they are. It would basically mean the Avs and Oilers are the best teams, and would probably be in the middle of a fierce rivalry (which would be great)

I just don't see Hopkins as being that great. He should be a 90 point player with average to good defense (and I see him being similar to Duchene in that regard if they are both healthy)
The reason you don't see him as "that great" is that you got the first part of the prediction right, but you haven't paid attention to the second part enough to be informed (with respect).

RNH is already the best defensive center on the oilers... granted Horc, Belanger & Smithson ain't what they used to be, but RNH has tremendous hockey smarts, agility and positioning. The only thing standing between him and a Selke is about 10 more pounds of man-strength and some refining experience

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06-27-2013, 05:31 PM
  #80
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More 1st overalls = better team

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06-27-2013, 05:40 PM
  #81
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So we're throwing in MacKinnon and ignoring that the Oilers have 7th overall this year and will also be getting a very good player?

Hall, RNH, Yak, Eberle, J. Schultz, Gagner, 7th, Paajarvi
vs.
MacKinnon, Landeskog, Duchene, O'Reilly, Johnson, Stastny... Downie? Barrie?

I think it's also fair to say Klefbom would be Colorado's #1 prospect.

Colorado has more balance in terms of less one-dimensional players, however Edmonton has far and away more potential and depth. They also have a better defense right now, with very good D prospects coming up.

Edmonton, easily for me.

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06-27-2013, 05:46 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
I think it's also fair to say Klefbom would be Colorado's #1 prospect.
Can you even name our current top prospect?

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06-27-2013, 05:50 PM
  #83
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Avs have a better top 5 imo.

Edmontons maybe have more trade value, or potential...but AS A GROUP, the winner is the avs because that group will win more games.

A better mix of styles, player sizes, intangibles, etc

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06-27-2013, 05:50 PM
  #84
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Quote:
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I think it's also fair to say Klefbom would be Colorado's #1 prospect.
huh?
most teams have a defense prospect like klefbom, he hasn't really done much to prove he will be more than a second pairing guy (at best)

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06-27-2013, 06:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway View Post
I didn't hear that at all in Hall's draft year (and if it happened it was definitely not Hopkins it would have be Couturier)

And I haven't heard one person say anything in that regard this year
people were too busy saying Seguin>>>>Hall

and look how that turned out

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06-27-2013, 06:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Elway View Post
The "everyone hates us " thing you guys have going on is the perfect argument breaker

And even with that your wrong, haven't heard Bob say anything to that sort this year like he has in the past.
because he hasn't started talking about next years prospects yet. Yakupov was a god on these boards until the oilers won the lottery.

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06-27-2013, 07:44 PM
  #87
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
Can you even name our current top prospect?
It seems pretty wide open. Elliot, Siemens, Barrie, Sgarbossa, Pickard.. doesn't exactly matter. None of them are better prospects than Klefbom.

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06-27-2013, 07:50 PM
  #88
topchowda
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Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
huh?
most teams have a defense prospect like klefbom, he hasn't really done much to prove he will be more than a second pairing guy (at best)
Besides being praised by most scouts/ hockey media people. Ranked as a top 10 D prospect. Almost every outside ranking as him right behind Brodin (HF 22 & 23, 7 & 8th best D prospects, Button 17 & 18, 4th and 5th best D) Also was the best D on his SEL team at 19. Made WJC all star team (almost every D on the all star team recently is a stud in the NHL)

Ya, every team has them laying around.

However, Barrie and Elliot are great prospects to, I watched Barrie in the AHL against the barons and he looked dangerous


Last edited by topchowda: 06-27-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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06-27-2013, 07:54 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
huh?
most teams have a defense prospect like klefbom, he hasn't really done much to prove he will be more than a second pairing guy (at best)
Does Van?

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Old
06-27-2013, 07:55 PM
  #90
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
huh?
most teams have a defense prospect like klefbom, he hasn't really done much to prove he will be more than a second pairing guy (at best)
Klefbom's development has been outstanding since the draft. He has consistently led Farjestad's D core in ice time and played a huge role on that team as a 19 year old. He was on the All-Star team at the World Juniors.. Yea.. just an "ordinary" prospect that most teams have.

Are you capable of staying out of an Oilers thread? Seriously.. we don't care for your input.. We know how you view us, and we know what you're trying to do..

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06-27-2013, 07:58 PM
  #91
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Can we just call both cores really awesome and say it's gonna be cool to have a rivalry in the next few years?

No?! sorry.

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06-27-2013, 08:05 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
Can we just call both cores really awesome and say it's gonna be cool to have a rivalry in the next few years?

No?! sorry.
I do like this idea

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06-27-2013, 10:18 PM
  #93
Tad Mikowsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Klefbom's development has been outstanding since the draft. He has consistently led Farjestad's D core in ice time and played a huge role on that team as a 19 year old. He was on the All-Star team at the World Juniors.. Yea.. just an "ordinary" prospect that most teams have.

Are you capable of staying out of an Oilers thread? Seriously.. we don't care for your input.. We know how you view us, and we know what you're trying to do..
Just causing a stir as usual.

Adds nothing of substance other than a failed opinion, like Kadri>Hall.

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06-27-2013, 10:27 PM
  #94
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X - MacK - Landy
X - Duch - X
X - ROR - X

If you fill the X's with suitable hockey players, then Y.

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06-27-2013, 10:36 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway View Post
The "everyone hates us " thing you guys have going on is the perfect argument breaker

And even with that your wrong, haven't heard Bob say anything to that sort this year like he has in the past.
Witness for yourself the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the Oilers won the Yakupov lottery. Too bad HF deleted part one of the topic, because it got really good around page 12.

If that's not enough for you, here's an old "RNH vs. Yakupov" poll well before the Oilers won the draft lottery and the results were even more lopsided than that because I've bought it up a few times since then. To me it shows maybe it's not a bias against the Oilers but just general stupidity. Either way it's bad.

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06-27-2013, 10:44 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
Witness for yourself the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the Oilers won the Yakupov lottery. Too bad HF deleted part one of the topic, because it got really good around page 12.

If that's not enough for you, here's an old "RNH vs. Yakupov" poll well before the Oilers won the draft lottery and the results were even more lopsided than that because I've bought it up a few times since then. To me it shows maybe it's not a bias against the Oilers but just general stupidity. Either way it's bad.
Quote:
Yakupov > RNH

And honestly, from what I've seen and read,

Yakupov > Hall
Yakupov ≥ Tavares
Yakupov > Duchene
Yakupov ≥ Stamkos
Yakupov > Kane

Yeah, I said it. The kid is a freakin' dynamo, one could argue the best offensive talent since Crosby himself.
So yeah, that person was serious...

EDIT: This thread is a goldmine!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Vision* View Post
Yakupov without blinking, or thinking. The guy is literally the best offensive talent since Crosby and Ovechkin, I almost don't even think it's a debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilsands View Post
Yakupov,

I may get bashed for this, but his ceiling is higher than Crosby, and he is better defensively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJSharks2010 View Post
Yakupov. RNH has the potential to become a first line centre, Yakupov very well could be a generational talent. (right up there in the same class as Sid, Ovie, Stamkos, Datsyuk)
This is before Yak was an Oiler too, so it's not Oilers hate. It's just people overrating the F!#$% out of prospects as usual on HF.

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06-28-2013, 12:17 AM
  #97
Rhaego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
Witness for yourself the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the Oilers won the Yakupov lottery. Too bad HF deleted part one of the topic, because it got really good around page 12.

If that's not enough for you, here's an old "RNH vs. Yakupov" poll well before the Oilers won the draft lottery and the results were even more lopsided than that because I've bought it up a few times since then. To me it shows maybe it's not a bias against the Oilers but just general stupidity. Either way it's bad.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it hasn't happened this year. Clear difference

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06-28-2013, 12:20 AM
  #98
Tad Mikowsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway View Post
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it hasn't happened this year. Clear difference
because, like I said: neither one of those guys are going to be an Oiler.

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06-28-2013, 12:22 AM
  #99
Rhaego
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
because, like I said: neither one of those guys are going to be an Oiler.
So Bob McKenzie dislikes the Oilers? Sure there are teams on here that get hated on but still.

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06-28-2013, 12:26 AM
  #100
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I'd take Colorado.

I think Edmonton's group is a bit redundant, and they'll probably end up shipping off one of their guys soon for a stand-out two-way player anyway.

Also, I think MacKinnon will be the best player of that group.

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