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My Hart Trophy winner so far...

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Old
01-06-2004, 07:36 AM
  #26
Sundried TOmato
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Brodeur has been tremendous. But without him, the Devils would still be a great team. Without Kovalchuk, on the other hand... The Thrashers would be leading the Ovechkin race.

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01-06-2004, 08:39 AM
  #27
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Luongo has been amazing
but i think Theodore has been pretty equal to him this year.

Their stats are close (with theo having the edge in wins, GAA and SOs) because of being on a better team.

im not saying either should win it (brodeur kinda kills all goalies)
but i believe that both are doing amazing things this year.

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Old
01-06-2004, 08:50 AM
  #28
Mizral
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The Hart Trophy is not a 'if the player wasn't there, where would they be?' trophy.

I am a strict beleiver that a Hart Trophy winner should almost always come from one of the top teams in the league.

To me, the top three contenders, in order, are #1 - Martin Brodeur, #2 - Markus Naslund, and #3 - Pavel Datsyuk. TSN and SportsNet analysts both had those guys up as Hart canidates within the last 2 weeks too, so I feel pretty comfortable saying those three.

Again, remember, this is an MVP award. 'Most Valuable Player IN THE LEAGUE'. Is Roberto Luongo more valuable than Martin Brodeur? No, of course not.

Maybe Luongo is the MVP of his team, but certainly not in the league.

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Old
01-06-2004, 08:51 AM
  #29
Ajacied
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Roberto Luongo, definitely..

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Old
01-06-2004, 11:49 PM
  #30
The Flying Pigdog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
The Hart Trophy is not a 'if the player wasn't there, where would they be?' trophy.

I am a strict beleiver that a Hart Trophy winner should almost always come from one of the top teams in the league.

To me, the top three contenders, in order, are #1 - Martin Brodeur, #2 - Markus Naslund, and #3 - Pavel Datsyuk. TSN and SportsNet analysts both had those guys up as Hart canidates within the last 2 weeks too, so I feel pretty comfortable saying those three.

Again, remember, this is an MVP award. 'Most Valuable Player IN THE LEAGUE'. Is Roberto Luongo more valuable than Martin Brodeur? No, of course not.

Maybe Luongo is the MVP of his team, but certainly not in the league.
I pretty much agree with you but I don't understand one thign - if you think that the Hart trophy is for the MVP of the entire league, why should it come from one of the top teams? If it was most valuable player to his team, then I can understand it coming from a winner because hypothetically, an 0-82 team with a 200-point scorer will still be an 0-82 team without him, meaning he's a great player and all, but not overly valuable to his team.

But if it's MVP for the entire league, a player on a last place team would still fit the definition right?

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Old
01-06-2004, 11:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundried TOmato
Brodeur has been tremendous. But without him, the Devils would still be a great team.
Not likely.

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Old
01-07-2004, 12:52 AM
  #32
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flying Pigdog
But if it's MVP for the entire league, a player on a last place team would still fit the definition right?
Well, people will usually conclude he hasn't been THAT important since he didn't carry his team as far and well as others.

I agree that the success of the team should be a factor. However, I disagree it should carry too much weight in the decision.

These kind of awards are very subjective anyway and it's ok like that. You won't find any clear definition. While I like Mizral's definition, I don't think it is the ultimate one. Other people would vote differently and that'd be ok too if it's done in an intelligent fashion.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:05 AM
  #33
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The Hart Trophy goes to Theodore!!!

no way....

He's back!

And he'll be absolutely the best Goalie in the NHL a the end of the season.

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Old
01-07-2004, 04:57 AM
  #34
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My vote right now would go to Naslund. He has been about the most productive player for the ice time he has played in all of the NHL.

And if Forsberg were healthy this season, I think he would have no doubt won the award. When he has played this season, he has been ridiculously dominant.

And Naslund and Forsberg are best friends.

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Old
01-07-2004, 05:33 AM
  #35
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It comes down to this: Which player has played the best this year. For me, that comes down to Sundin and Kovalchuk. (I haven't seen any of Palfy, or Broduer)

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Old
01-07-2004, 05:38 AM
  #36
Daryl Shilling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
The Hart Trophy is not a 'if the player wasn't there, where would they be?' trophy.

I am a strict beleiver that a Hart Trophy winner should almost always come from one of the top teams in the league.

To me, the top three contenders, in order, are #1 - Martin Brodeur, #2 - Markus Naslund, and #3 - Pavel Datsyuk. TSN and SportsNet analysts both had those guys up as Hart canidates within the last 2 weeks too, so I feel pretty comfortable saying those three.

Again, remember, this is an MVP award. 'Most Valuable Player IN THE LEAGUE'. Is Roberto Luongo more valuable than Martin Brodeur? No, of course not.

Maybe Luongo is the MVP of his team, but certainly not in the league.
Generally speaking the award ends up going to a player from a winning club. It's almost impossible to win the Hart if you play for a non-playoff team. Only happened twice in the last 50 years.

That said, technically speaking the trophy is supposed to go to "the player judged to be the most valuable to his team". By the letter of the NHL's own definition of the award, it shouldn't exclude players from poor teams.

That is the NHL's definition of their MVP, but it hardly works out that way in practice. My Hart Trophy prediction system so far shows the front-runners for winning the MVP as:

1. Joe Sakic
2. Brett Hull
3. Mats Sundin
4. Markus Naslund
5. Ilya Kovalchuk

Daryl

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Old
01-07-2004, 06:51 AM
  #37
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Sundin gets my vote....and he started the year cold...
Belfour wasn't sharp to start the year, Mogilny has missed significant time, McCabe, Kaberle, Nolan and the list goes on have missed plenty of games...
Like other posters have said, when it comes down to crunch time Sundin gets the points, game winners and he leads the league in 3rd period points. I remember a lot of people claiming the leafs wouldn't be making the playoffs either....

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Old
01-07-2004, 06:59 AM
  #38
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I don't think the Hart trophy should go to a non playoff team because if he's valuable he should get them somewhere.

Right now Brodeur (1,77 GAA .925%)
Joe Sakic 17G 27A 44Pts
Sundin 16G 27A 43Pts

and of course, my personnal favorite, Jose Theodore 2.05GAA .927%, at the same point then 2001-2002, he's got better stats and let me tell you he's been a wall for the last 6 weeks. Luongo, Brodeur and Theodore and the top 3 in this league IMO(no particular order).


Honorable mentions to Palffy and Forsberg who never ceases to amaze me.

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Old
01-07-2004, 12:38 PM
  #39
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Any non-Coyote fans have an opinion regarding Shane Doan?

Weren't they picked to finish last by several 'experts'?

And please provide YOUR opinion based on what you've seen of him this year, I know the so-called 'experts' probably don't even know who he is & would never consider him for the trophy.

No opinions from Predator fans please, based on our games against the Preds, he wasn't even noticeable with what Scott Walker was doing on the ice. If the Preds played the Coyotes every game, Walker would probably be the MVP.

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Old
01-07-2004, 12:47 PM
  #40
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My Top 10 so far:

1) Martin Brodeur
2) Ilya Kovalchuk
3) Pavel Datsyuk
4) Jose Theodore
5) Chris Pronger
6) Ed Belfour
7) Markus Naslund
8) Joe Sakic
9) Zigmund Palfy
10) Mats Sundin

I think only players who are in a playoff position should be considered. If Doan, Nagy, Luongo ect can get there teams into the playoffs, they should be considered.

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Old
01-07-2004, 12:57 PM
  #41
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Even if I wasn't a homer, I think it would be obvious to me that the answer is Markus Naslund. Atop or near the top of the league scoring leaders all year, while atop or near the top of the forwards plus minus standings, more than you could say for the streaky Kovalchuk or the Pavel-come-lately Datsyuk.

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Old
01-07-2004, 01:06 PM
  #42
Bobby Orr's Knees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas_Bert_Morr
Even if I wasn't a homer, I think it would be obvious to me that the answer is Markus Naslund. Atop or near the top of the league scoring leaders all year, while atop or near the top of the forwards plus minus standings, more than you could say for the streaky Kovalchuk or the Pavel-come-lately Datsyuk.
There is such thing as complimenting your favorite without belittling other players. While Naslund is my choice for MVP as well, I'll be the first one to admit that Kovalchuk & Datsyuk has had tremendous seasons. Kovalchuk also had to deal with a very heavy burden at the age of 20. Streaky? That's the last word I'd use to describe his effort this year.

And your +/- argument is weak at best. It has been discussed to death that +/- is more reflective of a team's overall strength on defense then anything else.

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Old
01-07-2004, 01:22 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Orr's Knees
There is such thing as complimenting your favorite without belittling other players. While Naslund is my choice for MVP as well, I'll be the first one to admit that Kovalchuk & Datsyuk has had tremendous seasons. Kovalchuk also had to deal with a very heavy burden at the age of 20. Streaky? That's the last word I'd use to describe his effort this year.

And your +/- argument is weak at best. It has been discussed to death that +/- is more reflective of a team's overall strength on defense then anything else.
I will also say that Kovalchuk and Datsyuk are playing great and are two of the top players in the NHL, period. But to stake a claim in to one player as a Hart trophy winner, you need to provide reasons why others aren't worthy. Also, while I myself do not believe +/- is a very indication of a player's worth, it IS often one of the deciding factors in a close Hart race.

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Old
01-07-2004, 06:44 PM
  #44
Nasty Naz
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1. Ilya Kovalchuk
2. Joe Sakic
3. Tomas Vokoun

Honourable Mention: Mats Sundin

Kovalchuk has been scoring a ton for Atlanta and they are in the playoffs because of him and Marc Savard. But Kovalchuk is the one getting more third period points and the big goals.

Sakic has stepped up huge in light of Forsberg and Kariya's injuries and Roy's retirement to keep Colorado an elite team.

Vokoun - For a goaltender who plays on Nashville to be tied for the league lead in wins as of the beginning of the New Year is downright amazing. But since stats are and should be a big deal, Vokoun's GAA makes it tough to give him the nod. If he can string a few shutouts together, get his GAA in the 2.15-2.25 range and keep Nashville in the playoffs, he moves up to #1 IMO.

Sundin is great and has been the undisputed leader here in T.O. but points are a big deal. And he looks like he's on his way to another 75-85 point season, which is just not and never has been considered dynamic enough to win the Hart given that we will see the Naslunds and Sakics of the world get in the 100 point range. Granted, Sundin has not had Mogilny for much of the year but Roberts, Nolan (before the eye injury), McCabe, Klee, Tucker and of course Belfour have had great years. If Mats can keep the Leafs playing .800 hockey or whatever it has been the last two months for a bit longer and get them some lofty 120 point season and inch towards the 90 point range with a couple more of his customary game winning goals, maybe he will then have mustered together enough to win it.

Should be interesting.

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Old
01-07-2004, 07:37 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddhaful
Any non-Coyote fans have an opinion regarding Shane Doan?

Weren't they picked to finish last by several 'experts'?

And please provide YOUR opinion based on what you've seen of him this year, I know the so-called 'experts' probably don't even know who he is & would never consider him for the trophy.

No opinions from Predator fans please, based on our games against the Preds, he wasn't even noticeable with what Scott Walker was doing on the ice. If the Preds played the Coyotes every game, Walker would probably be the MVP.
Hey I'm extremely biased since he's one of my fav's (I'm from basically where he grew up and I went to school with his brother). But IMO he has been great, I don't think he'll get serious consideration this year, neither will Nagy IMO. Both certainely have that potential, if they sustain this effort next year and make the playoffs again (at least they will this year by my predictions ) Then I think they'll start getting talked about on the Naslund-Bertuzzi type level more often. And from there they could make a push.

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Old
01-07-2004, 08:11 PM
  #46
Trottier
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On January 7th, Martin Brodeur.

But there is half a season to go.

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