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2013 Offseason Thread Part V: Trade Em All!

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06-28-2013, 08:33 AM
  #576
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Injury concern. Injured players can'tbe bought out
That's true.

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06-28-2013, 08:34 AM
  #577
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Question: wouldn't we be able to buy out Richards after this upcoming season? So why wouldn't we give him another year to see if he could turn it around under AV, and then if he doesn't we buy him out following next season?
Because even if he put up 100 points, which he wont, the Rangers would need to buy him out anyway.

People always scream about chemistry and having a team grow together. How in the world can that happen with a lame duck center eating 20 minutes of ice time?

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06-28-2013, 08:38 AM
  #578
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probably not. I'm for the buyout, only because of the injury risk, but if this wasn't a concern, there isn't a doubt in my mind that Richards would at the very least be the 65p player he was last year, not to mention the good #s he put in post season. He scored alot of big goals last year, and made many great plays. He's getting killed and rightly so, for not staying in game shape, but BR will bounce back as a solid 2C.

It's not an easy decision. Can you honestly convince Lundqvist we're SC caliber team when we release Richards and start next season with Stephan and Brassard as our #1 and 2? good luck....
That could be a factor as well good point

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06-28-2013, 08:43 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Because even if he put up 100 points, which he wont, the Rangers would need to buy him out anyway.

People always scream about chemistry and having a team grow together. How in the world can that happen with a lame duck center eating 20 minutes of ice time?
and we also talk about no patience but someone is a lame duck center based on 48 games when he was instrumental in negotiating the lockout. But regardless we do this over and over again in NY. There is zero patience if someone has a bad season (hell in this case half season), throw them out and I'm not talking about just Richards. (Gaborik, Del Zotto, girardi) it goes on and on

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06-28-2013, 08:47 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and we also talk about no patience but someone is a lame duck center based on 48 games when he was instrumental in negotiating the lockout. But regardless we do this over and over again in NY. There is zero patience if someone has a bad season (hell in this case half season), throw them out and I'm not talking about just Richards. (Gaborik, Del Zotto, girardi) it goes on and on
ironically it's the same crowd that continually insist that we're not building a team the correct way, that we should tank indefinitely for top picks and rebuild from the ground up...

miraculously they will develop boatloads of patience for a perennial losing team with young players going through years of growing pains...

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06-28-2013, 08:48 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and we also talk about no patience but someone is a lame duck center based on 48 games when he was instrumental in negotiating the lockout.
What? So the Rangers should risk being saddled with a 6.67M yearly cap hit for the next 7 years because Richards was instrumental in negotiating the lockout? Something that isn't even remotely true?

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06-28-2013, 08:52 AM
  #582
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Is Vinny L's health a concern? Only played 65 and 64 games in the seasons prior to this one but I can't remember (or be bothered looking up) what he sat out with.

Assuming Slats doesn't go crazy at the draft, I could handle VL for 3 years at about $5m per, especially if neither Richards or Clowe are coming back
he suffered 2 broken right hands...missed 15 games in 10-11, and 18 games in 11-12 due to them...

no idea how it happened though to say if it was a fluke that he suffered 2 similar injuries or not.

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06-28-2013, 08:52 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What? So the Rangers should risk being saddled with a 6.67M yearly cap hit for the next 7 years because Richards was instrumental in negotiating the lockout? Something that isn't even remotely true?
You totally missed the point.. I'm saying fans have patience only when it comes to young players.. If they are established FAs coming here or via trade, fans want to run them out of town after a bad year. Hell, Richards had a "bad" year according to some in his first year here when he almost put up 70 points and wanted him out then. Del zotto has a bad 48 game season, trade him for anything!. Girardi has a bad game, he's not as good as we rate him!. Kreider/Miller/etc show some good potential, keep them at all costs!.


Last edited by Lundsanity30: 06-28-2013 at 08:58 AM.
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06-28-2013, 08:55 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
he suffered 2 broken right hands...missed 15 games in 10-11, and 18 games in 11-12 due to them...

no idea how it happened though to say if it was a fluke that he suffered 2 similar injuries or not.
2 right hands? And he's a lefty... No wonder the Bolts buy him out

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06-28-2013, 08:56 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
ironically it's the same crowd that continually insist that we're not building a team the correct way, that we should tank indefinitely for top picks and rebuild from the ground up...

miraculously they will develop boatloads of patience for a perennial losing team with young players going through years of growing pains...
Yup, this is spot on...home grown guys will get every chance to succeed because of their "ceiling" or "potential". They won't give them up for players who are certainly better right now due to various reasons (too soft, too fat, too much money, you name it).

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06-28-2013, 08:57 AM
  #586
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You totally missed the point
Oh, do tell. Because right now I dont think there was one.

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06-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and we also talk about no patience but someone is a lame duck center based on 48 games when he was instrumental in negotiating the lockout. But regardless we do this over and over again in NY. There is zero patience if someone has a bad season (hell in this case half season), throw them out and I'm not talking about just Richards. (Gaborik, Del Zotto, girardi) it goes on and on
To me, it has nothing to do with Richard's play. I believe he can and will rebound next season. But I don't believe that he will be a productive player until he is 40, nor do I believe that he will play until he is 40. The last 3 years of his deal, he makes 1 mil per year. I can't see him sticking around for that.

IMO, the one and only reason for buying him out is because his contract has the potential to screw us on the cap recapture penalties. That's why he has to be bought out this year. If it wasn't for that, I'd say keep him and see if he can find his game again, then try to trade him at some point before he falls off a cliff.

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06-28-2013, 08:59 AM
  #588
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To me, it has nothing to do with Richard's play. I believe he can and will rebound next season. But I don't believe that he will be a productive player until he is 40, nor do I believe that he will play until he is 40. The last 3 years of his deal, he makes 1 mil per year. I can't see him sticking around for that.

IMO, the one and only reason for buying him out is because his contract has the potential to screw us on the cap recapture penalties. That's why he has to be bought out this year. If it wasn't for that, I'd say keep him and see if he can find his game again, then try to trade him at some point before he falls off a cliff.
Game. Set. Match.

This mentality of "well, hes better than other options," while true, doesnt take the big picture into account at all.

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06-28-2013, 09:00 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
To me, it has nothing to do with Richard's play. I believe he can and will rebound next season. But I don't believe that he will be a productive player until he is 40, nor do I believe that he will play until he is 40. The last 3 years of his deal, he makes 1 mil per year. I can't see him sticking around for that.

IMO, the one and only reason for buying him out is because his contract has the potential to screw us on the cap recapture penalties. That's why he has to be bought out this year. If it wasn't for that, I'd say keep him and see if he can find his game again, then try to trade him at some point before he falls off a cliff.
I agree that Richards has to be bought out at some point because he's only making a million his final 3 years, why play? The point was more or less about how every young kid gets all kinds of chances to succeed to fans, and the more established players are run. You can't talk about having chemistry and then running guys out right away either.

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06-28-2013, 09:01 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Game. Set. Match.

This mentality of "well, hes better than other options," while true, doesnt take the big picture into account at all.
and neither does holding on to guys with the HOPE that they will turn into what we want them to be while refusing to give them up for younger or better players or throwing guys away after a bad season (NOT EVEN COUNTING RICHARDS!)

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06-28-2013, 09:04 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
and neither does holding on to guys with the HOPE that they will turn into what we want them to be while refusing to give them up for younger or better players or throwing guys away after a bad season (NOT EVEN COUNTING RICHARDS!)
Yea, sure, whatever.

I dont see what one thing has to do with the other.

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06-28-2013, 09:05 AM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yea, sure, whatever.

I dont see what one thing has to do with the other.
agree to disagree then.

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06-28-2013, 09:10 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
To me, it has nothing to do with Richard's play. I believe he can and will rebound next season. But I don't believe that he will be a productive player until he is 40, nor do I believe that he will play until he is 40. The last 3 years of his deal, he makes 1 mil per year. I can't see him sticking around for that.

IMO, the one and only reason for buying him out is because his contract has the potential to screw us on the cap recapture penalties. That's why he has to be bought out this year. If it wasn't for that, I'd say keep him and see if he can find his game again, then try to trade him at some point before he falls off a cliff.
I keep reading that this is a business decision; not a hockey decision. If the organization determines that we have a better chance of winning the cup over the next few years with him versus what we would likely bring in to replace him, then he stays. Winning the cup is the best result possible from an economic perspective.

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06-28-2013, 09:10 AM
  #594
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agree to disagree then.
Well, you're employing a straw man argument.

Bottom line is you can afford to exhibit patience with most other players because the decision doesnt contain the financial ticking time bomb that the Richards situation has.

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06-28-2013, 09:16 AM
  #595
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Well, you're employing a straw man argument.

Bottom line is you can afford to exhibit patience with most other players because the decision doesnt contain the financial ticking time bomb that the Richards situation has.
Yet we as fans dont unless they are young players who are homegrown for the most part. how many wanted Gaborik ran out before his 40 goal season? Girardi? Del Zotto (who is young but experienced), etc. and for the record I COMPLETELY agree with you that Richards has to be bought out whether its this season or next season, that wasn't my point intended.

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06-28-2013, 09:16 AM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I agree that Richards has to be bought out at some point because he's only making a million his final 3 years, why play? The point was more or less about how every young kid gets all kinds of chances to succeed to fans, and the more established players are run. You can't talk about having chemistry and then running guys out right away either.
So your post is berating that prospects that we have are given chances to show improvement... Good point! We shouldn't do that. Instead we should feed massive minutes to declining players with 6.6 million cap hit. Good point!

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06-28-2013, 09:18 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I agree that Richards has to be bought out at some point because he's only making a million his final 3 years, why play? The point was more or less about how every young kid gets all kinds of chances to succeed to fans, and the more established players are run. You can't talk about having chemistry and then running guys out right away either.
The kids aren't making nearly as much. The kids are expected to improve as they get older. Of course there's a double standard. A vet taking up 6+ mil in cap space is expected to produce. A kid on an ELC, we're just hoping he produces.

But those kids get older and the expectations increase. That's just the way it works.

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06-28-2013, 09:18 AM
  #598
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Richards was instrumental in settling the lockout? He was not one of the main PA members in settling anything. He went to a few meetings. In the end it came down to Fehr and Bettman making a deal after the federal mediator got both sides talking the same language. Brad Richards?

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06-28-2013, 09:18 AM
  #599
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I'd take Letang on my team any day.

If he prices himself out of Pittsburgh, I'd gladly buyout Richards and allocate that money towards Letang.

Trade Del Zotto for a young forward.

Even at the terms he's agent is asking for? I wouldn't.

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06-28-2013, 09:19 AM
  #600
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So wait, we fans show too much patience with young homegrown players, but then you complain that we want Del Zotto out? What? So does that mean that we DON'T show too much patience with young players?

Not to mention the fact that young players aren't paid $6.67 million per year and don't cripple our cap.

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