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2013 Offseason Thread Part V: Trade Em All!

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06-28-2013, 09:21 AM
  #601
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Richards was instrumental in settling the lockout? He was not one of the main PA members in settling anything. He went to a few meetings. In the end it came down to Fehr and Bettman making a deal after the federal mediator got both sides talking the same language. Brad Richards?
I think its quite clear that going to a couple of meetings took up a lot of his time and made him fat. That won't be an issue this season.

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06-28-2013, 09:22 AM
  #602
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From: @RenLavoieRDS
Sent: Jun 28, 2013 10:19a

Flames GM, Jay Feaster, said that nobody called for Michael Cammalleri. #RDS

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/stat...19381639811072

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06-28-2013, 09:25 AM
  #603
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Conflicting information. What else is new, I guess.

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06-28-2013, 09:26 AM
  #604
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So wait, we fans show too much patience with young homegrown players, but then you complain that we want Del Zotto out? What? So does that mean that we DON'T show too much patience with young players?

Not to mention the fact that young players aren't paid $6.67 million per year and don't cripple our cap.
MDZ is going on his 5th season in NY. Some believe, myself included that he's shown us the type of player that he is already...

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06-28-2013, 09:27 AM
  #605
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According to Garrioch thread on main board, Ducks asking for Coburn + 1rst for Bobby Ryan. That would be a great deal for the Flyers.

And Flyers get even weaker defensively. Love it.

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06-28-2013, 09:30 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @RenLavoieRDS
Sent: Jun 28, 2013 10:19a

Flames GM, Jay Feaster, said that nobody called for Michael Cammalleri. #RDS

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/stat...19381639811072
wouldn't mind Cammalleri. rather have him then Briere..

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06-28-2013, 09:31 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think its quite clear that going to a couple of meetings took up a lot of his time and made him fat. That won't be an issue this season.
What he really needs is that one week of training camp to get into shape. As we all know, that's what truly did him in this year.

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06-28-2013, 09:32 AM
  #608
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And Flyers get even weaker defensively. Love it.
the flyers are going to make some deals no doubt. I can see them getting Bobby Ryan and maybe going after Yandle. they've got tons of $$ now and Holmgren is in the hot seat...

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06-28-2013, 09:33 AM
  #609
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I keep reading that this is a business decision; not a hockey decision. If the organization determines that we have a better chance of winning the cup over the next few years with him versus what we would likely bring in to replace him, then he stays. Winning the cup is the best result possible from an economic perspective.
When I say it's 100% a financial decision, I'm not really talking about money, but cap space. I believe that Richards HAS to be bought out either this summer or next. If he isn't we will absolutely be hit with a cap recapture penalty when he retires early.

If he retires in 2017, he will have 3 years left on his contract and we will get hit with a cap penalty of $5,666,667 for each of those 3 years. Even if we trade him at some point before then, we will still be stuck with the same cap hit penalties if and when he retires early.

So the real question isn't do "we have a better chance of winning the cup over the next few years with him versus what we would likely bring in to replace him".

The question is, do we have a good chance of winning the cup in 2013-14, and is that chance worth the risk of Richards getting hurt and the Rangers being unable to buy him out. IMO, the answer to that question is unequivocally "no".

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06-28-2013, 09:36 AM
  #610
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the flyers are going to make some deals no doubt. I can see them getting Bobby Ryan and maybe going after Yandle. they've got tons of $$ now and Holmgren is in the hot seat...

According to capgeek they only have just over 4 mill in cap space.

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06-28-2013, 09:39 AM
  #611
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What he really needs is that one week of training camp to get into shape. As we all know, that's what truly did him in this year.
I know you are being sarcastic, but to address the point because I'm bored:

The obvious kicker was the long layoff (including not playing overseas) at his age. And not being physically ready led to a slump and his confidence spiraled out of control.

Which is why, while I think he will turn it around, I'm not sure he can do it in NY. Too much mental baggage. Confidence was just as much of an issue as the physical limitations IMO.

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06-28-2013, 09:39 AM
  #612
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I think it is "do we want to risk getting royally screwed over making a decision that opens up other possible options "

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06-28-2013, 09:40 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
So wait, we fans show too much patience with young homegrown players, but then you complain that we want Del Zotto out? What? So does that mean that we DON'T show too much patience with young players?

Not to mention the fact that young players aren't paid $6.67 million per year and don't cripple our cap.
In a vacuum, Del Zotto is a guy you let develop and see how he improves.

In our situation, he's expendabe for scoring help since Hagelin and Callahan will/should make up 2/3 of our checking line this coming season. There's a couple of holes on that 2nd scoring line. Zuccarello can fill one of those holes if he's brought back, but there's still one spot open. It's risky business to count on Kreider or another kid to be the solution, they'll have to earn it. Thus, outside help needs to be acquired, most preferably through trade, since free agents will be overpaid.

As for why Del Zotto is expendable, take a look at the left side defensive depth. McDonagh is ahead of him. Staal is ahead of him if he comes back close to what he was, and Moore passed him on the depth chart this past playoffs and earned the time. Either we play Del Zotto where he's uncomfortable unless paired with McDonagh or Staal, or we let a very valuable asset help us to acquire a very valuable asset which is in a bigger area of team need. It's not too complicated, really.

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06-28-2013, 09:40 AM
  #614
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The rangers are going to wait and see what players become available before making a buyout decision on Richards for this year. It does make some sense. I there isn't anyone available that can improve the team with the departure of BR, then it makes sense to keep him for one more year.

Are they interested in Letang? Buyout BR, sign letang, trade MDZ? ?

Sure there is risk involved, but realistically Richards CAN retain his health for ONE more year and he CAN go back to being a 65-70p player

be patient. we have until July 4.

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06-28-2013, 09:41 AM
  #615
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Since his 91 poitn campaign in Dallas, Brad Richards has been a player in decline for three straight seasons.

No one seems to be acknowledging this.

This was missed with Redden before he was signed and his decline continued during hsi NYR tenure however short it was.

Richards is in decline. Of that there is no debate. Retaining a 6.6 million 2nd/3rd line tweener that offers NOTHING other than his offence means he offers NOTHING when his offence goes is not a smart move.

Richards is not at an age where there is any legitimate belief that he can "bounce back"

Richards bounce back season WAS his 91 point campaign in Dallas. He had three straight seasons of 70 points or less between his TB 91pt season and his Dallas 91pt season.

Since then, decline, decline decline.

Failing to see that means we accept it.

We have an opportunity to get out from under a massive cap hit of 6.6 for significantly fading player. We have to grab this opportunity by it's little scruffy neck and strangle it.

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06-28-2013, 09:42 AM
  #616
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MDZ is going on his 5th season in NY. Some believe, myself included that he's shown us the type of player that he is already...
In which season? The one where he played 77 games, played solid top 4 minutes and put up 41 points? The one that a lot of people thought would earn him 4+ mil per year?

Or was it the most recent year, a lockout shortened year where he played well at times and not so well at times? The one where he played at least part of the season with a sports hernia?

MDZ has shown the ability to be a very good player. He just turned 23 and he's a defensemen. Defensemen don't peak at age 23. Giving up on him at this point would be foolish. But too many fans are more concerned with what we can get for him instead of what he can do for us. For too many fans, getting good players is more important than having them.

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06-28-2013, 09:43 AM
  #617
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Yandles maybe the most overrated player in the sport today.

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06-28-2013, 09:46 AM
  #618
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Yandles maybe the most overrated player in the sport today.
Yep, I would love for the Flyers to overpay for him.

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06-28-2013, 09:48 AM
  #619
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In which season? The one where he played 77 games, played solid top 4 minutes and put up 41 points? The one that a lot of people thought would earn him 4+ mil per year?

Or was it the most recent year, a lockout shortened year where he played well at times and not so well at times? The one where he played at least part of the season with a sports hernia?

MDZ has shown the ability to be a very good player. He just turned 23 and he's a defensemen. Defensemen don't peak at age 23. Giving up on him at this point would be foolish. But too many fans are more concerned with what we can get for him instead of what he can do for us. For too many fans, getting good players is more important than having them.
all your points are duly noted. i don't want him moved for for just anyone, but for a scorer that is equal to all the merits you outlined above.

the trade for Moore, imo might have made MDZ expendable for a move like this.

I've watched him play every game since he came up. i'm not a fan of MDZ.

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06-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #620
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The kids aren't making nearly as much. The kids are expected to improve as they get older. Of course there's a double standard. A vet taking up 6+ mil in cap space is expected to produce. A kid on an ELC, we're just hoping he produces.

But those kids get older and the expectations increase. That's just the way it works.
I just think this board values young players or prospects or draft picks wayyyyy too much just my personal opinion. I'm all for youth aand we have alot of it but the way some people think Lindberg will just come in here and be a 3c or Kreider a fixture in the top 6 etc are crazy JMO would love to be proven wrong. Hank is not gonna wait and wait to win a cup and that's what scares me the most. We're not even a playoff without him

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06-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #621
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all your points are duly noted. i don't want him moved for for just anyone, but for a scorer that is equal to all the merits you outlined above.

the trade for Moore, imo might have made MDZ expendable for a move like this.

I've watched him play every game since he came up. i'm not a fan of MDZ.
Fair enough. Personally, if we are going to trade him, I'd rather trade him for a PMD/PPQB that can play on the right side. I still feel like we need someone on the back end who can produce offensively. It's too bad we missed the boat on Shattenkirk.

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06-28-2013, 10:00 AM
  #622
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Fair enough. Personally, if we are going to trade him, I'd rather trade him for a PMD/PPQB that can play on the right side. I still feel like we need someone on the back end who can produce offensively. It's too bad we missed the boat on Shattenkirk.
I think the idea would be to trade MDZ for a young, unproven RD who has some offensive upside + NHL winger/pick

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06-28-2013, 10:06 AM
  #623
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I know you are being sarcastic, but to address the point because I'm bored:

The obvious kicker was the long layoff (including not playing overseas) at his age. And not being physically ready led to a slump and his confidence spiraled out of control.

Which is why, while I think he will turn it around, I'm not sure he can do it in NY. Too much mental baggage. Confidence was just as much of an issue as the physical limitations IMO.
I understand that there was a long layoff, but it's his own fault for not staying in shape; and to me, that shows a lack of commitment. If you don't want to play overseas that's fine, but there were hundreds of players in the NHL who didn't play in the offseason and they still manage to come into the year in respectable shape.

I think the issue here is that Sather doesn't want to be the guy who buys out Richards, only to see him go to Toronto and score 75 points next year on a line with Kessel and Lupul. If he waits it out for another season, he can at least say that Richards continued to stink up the joint, or, if he rebounds, he can try and trade him or buy him out under the idea that he was "forced to" because of the cap.

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06-28-2013, 10:06 AM
  #624
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According to Feaster,nobody has called about Cammalieri but they call about the BC kidFrom: @CruickshankCH
Sent: Jun 28, 2013 11:03a

#Flames GM Jay Feaster about Johnny Gaudreau: "We get lots of phone calls about him."

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/CruickshankCH/sta...30448554180610

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06-28-2013, 10:06 AM
  #625
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I just think this board values young players or prospects or draft picks wayyyyy too much just my personal opinion. I'm all for youth aand we have alot of it but the way some people think Lindberg will just come in here and be a 3c or Kreider a fixture in the top 6 etc are crazy JMO would love to be proven wrong. Hank is not gonna wait and wait to win a cup and that's what scares me the most. We're not even a playoff without him
Youre absolutely right. But, again, I fail to see how this effects the Brad Richards situation.

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