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Old
01-06-2004, 12:26 PM
  #51
looooob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
I don't find 1.1 million in the Winnipeg Metro area to be all that small, but it's true there is not a lot of corporate help waiting there. .
but 1.1 M ISN"T METRO Winnipeg. IT's the whole province of Manitoba!!

"metro" Winnipeg is probably 700K, if that.

Manitoba is HUGE geographically. the good folks of Thompson, Flin flon, the Pas and Churchill aren't going to buy Jets season tickets

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Old
01-06-2004, 12:31 PM
  #52
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As I said in another thread, the Jets brought over 13,000 into an old, awful arena that holds 15 year after year without fail, until they hit "lame duck" status in their final year. Unlike most arenas now, they weren't "filled" (in quotes because arenas in most cities today aren't filled at all, the tickets are just sold) by corporate folks who picked them up free from the office. They were filled by diehard hockey fans. Those pointing at the attendance numbers as proof that Winnipeg can't support a team are making a very sketchy argument. The best arguement against a team in Winnipeg is the low level of corporate involvement and the current and unknown future state of the CBA. The Jets failed because there wasn't enough corporate involvement scooping up those extra few thousand season tickets, spending big bucks on advertisment, and leasing out the luxary suites that didn't exist in the old barn. The seats weren't full with hockey fans because they'd have to be ridiculously stupid to pay NHL dollar for seats incredibly far away from the ice with little view of the play. The citizens of Winnipeg supported the Jets. The corporate community didn't. Is there the corporate presence in Winnipeg to support the team this time around? I believe there might be, if the CBA is changed to such an extent that its even economically feasible to run a team in Winnipeg, and if the organization can produce a winner (something they never did the first time around, despite decent levels of talent).

Its not impossible, there are just huge hurdles. And I don't know of anyone in Winnipeg whining about there not being NHL here. We're just hoping to get it back (and like I said, I personally don't want to take the Penguins out of Pittsburgh...I'd rather wait).

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Old
01-06-2004, 01:00 PM
  #53
jiggs 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
but 1.1 M ISN"T METRO Winnipeg. IT's the whole province of Manitoba!!

"metro" Winnipeg is probably 700K, if that.

Manitoba is HUGE geographically. the good folks of Thompson, Flin flon, the Pas and Churchill aren't going to buy Jets season tickets
But 1.1 million IS the metro area of Winnipeg, at least according to Winnipeg. In their tourism guides, they list the official population of Winnipeg as 795,000, and the METRO area (Selkirk, Transcona, etc.) push it over 1 million. Whether these are inflated numbers is up to YOU to decide, but the whole point is: the city of Winnipeg CAN and DID support an NHL franchise for 17 years. And in many of those years, the Jets were BAD. Just because an owner wants to get a new arena is no reason to say the city didn't support the TEAM.

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Old
01-06-2004, 01:13 PM
  #54
looooob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
But 1.1 million IS the metro area of Winnipeg, at least according to Winnipeg. In their tourism guides, they list the official population of Winnipeg as 795,000, and the METRO area (Selkirk, Transcona, etc.) push it over 1 million. Whether these are inflated numbers is up to YOU to decide, but the whole point is: the city of Winnipeg CAN and DID support an NHL franchise for 17 years. And in many of those years, the Jets were BAD. Just because an owner wants to get a new arena is no reason to say the city didn't support the TEAM.
those numbers are absolutely inflated.

don't get me wrong, I lived in Winnipeg for years, I'd love for this to work out (although I remain skeptical), but there is no way there are 1.1 million people in metro Winnipeg, nor is the official population of Winnipeg City 795 K. no way

edit: City of Winnipegs own data from the 96 census places the city of Winnipeg at 618K and metro Winnipeg at 667K with 1% growth over the previous 5 years...I'm doubting that metro Winnipeg then nearly doubled between 96 and 03


Last edited by looooob: 01-06-2004 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
01-06-2004, 01:44 PM
  #55
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2002 population of Canadian metro cities (taken from statscan.com)

Toronto (Ontario) 5,029,900
Montréal (Quebec) 3,548,800
Vancouver (British Columbia) 2,122,700
Ottawa–Hull (Ontario–Quebec) 1,128,900
Calgary (Alberta) 993,200
Edmonton (Alberta) 967,200
Québec (Quebec) 697,800
Winnipeg (Manitoba) 685,500

looooob is correct, however the metro pop. of The Peg is actually lower than 700,000. That is not to say that they are unable to support an NHL team, but it does play a big factor. Both of you make excellent points though.

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Old
01-06-2004, 01:54 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
With a new arena and another team, the new Winnipeg team should easily average 14,000 (or more than 12 other current NHL teams).
Not to add fuel to this (ridiculous) fire, but:

Attendance 02-03
Attendance 03-04
Where are these 12 teams that average under 14K? I see 5, with a couple others that are over, but close to 14K.

IMO, the numbers for Phoenix are irrelevant anyway, since their new arena just opened, no doubt the attendance will go up. That said, 81% attendance last year isn't bad for the old place, which I understand had a ton of obstructed view seats.

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Old
01-06-2004, 01:59 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye
Wow, look. There are some better arguments against returning to Winnipeg.

Why didnt you post those in the first place?
Probably because he kept hoping it wouldn't be necessary.

The fact Winnipeg cannot support a NHL franchise is supposed to be PAINFULLY obvious.

You're not supposed to have to *explain* that kind of thing in 2004. Not anymore than you have to explain why Joe Sakic will never score 400 goals in a single season.

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01-06-2004, 02:08 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by rye&ginger
I'd like to see how many Texans go to hockey games when the Stars become a bad team.
Uh...like now? Or 2001-2002? Or 95-96? There have been plenty of mediocre Stars teams.

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Old
01-06-2004, 02:09 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
You're not supposed to have to *explain* that kind of thing in 2004. Not anymore than you have to explain why Joe Sakic will never score 400 goals in a single season.
next year....

once his jaw completely heals...look out

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01-06-2004, 02:13 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
So now, I am no economic genius, but I can see that Winnipeg didn't support their NHL team last time.
EXACTLY

There is NOTHING to suggest that Winnipeg can support an NHL franchise.

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Old
01-06-2004, 02:48 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
EXACTLY

There is NOTHING to suggest that Winnipeg can support an NHL franchise.
By the same argument, there was nothing to suggest St. Paul and Denver could support an NHL team.

There still is nothing to suggest that Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Nashville or Atlanta can suppor NHL teams either - at least, at the fan level.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyfan

Calgary (Alberta) 993,200
For the record, Calgary's pop is already basically 1 million people.

Calgary usually grows by about 30 000 people a year which would put it over a million easily before the end of the year. That is not taking into account the cities around Calgary (Airdrie, Okatokes (sp) Cochrane, Strathmore) all with in a 5 to 15 min drive of Calgary. (which if you consider to be metro Calgary, would be be over a million as of now)

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:22 PM
  #63
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Sure the new arena being built in Winnipeg is a gem, for an AHL team. If they can't cram at least another 2500 seats, the whole project about bringing the Jets back is a waste of time.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:47 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye
By the same argument, there was nothing to suggest St. Paul and Denver could support an NHL team.
Except for the fact that there was corporate interest to bring teams there in the first place, plus a modern arena, and the lack of dealing with the Canadian dollar.

Quote:
There still is nothing to suggest that Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Nashville or Atlanta can suppor NHL teams either - at least, at the fan level.
So we want to create more teams like that?

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Old
01-07-2004, 04:44 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zherdev
Sure the new arena being built in Winnipeg is a gem, for an AHL team. If they can't cram at least another 2500 seats, the whole project about bringing the Jets back is a waste of time.
It seems like a 2K version of the Ottawa Civic Centre. It's an arena that was built in the 60's that was too small for the NHL but big enough that it didn't make it viable to build an NHL calibre arena.

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Old
01-07-2004, 05:48 PM
  #66
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Ok, I'm not here to support one side or the other, but here are figures I researched using a simple search engine. It's not the bible, but maybe a good starting point and not too far off. I just thought this would assist some people in gaining a better understanding of Winnipeg and the outlying are/nearby towns.

According to the most recent estimate given by a government source, the population of Winnipeg is currently 685,507.

http://www.tourism.winnipeg.mb.ca/home_db_be_p.php

Outlying areas (within 30 minutes) include Selkirk/St. Andrews/Stonewall (pop. 22,500) Steinbach (pop.10,050). Couldn't find any estimate for Headingley but the most conservative estimate I can put down is about 4,000. So that puts 36,550 in those communities just on the outskirts of Winnipeg. The second tier of towns about an hour from Winnipeg are Portage la Prairie (pop 20,385) and Morden/Winkler (14,200). Other communities on the furthest limits of the market area are Brandon (one hour, 45 minute drive) with a population of 43,000 and Kenora (approx same distance) with a population of 16,500.

SO the bottom line is, 812,142 people live in Winnipeg or communities in a target area for ticket sales. That does not include the rural populations outside these communities.

Also to those who think Winnipeg has no economy, there are SOME corporations that call Winnipeg home. A few of the multi-billion dollar businesses I can think up of the top of my head with corporate headquarters based in Winnipeg are MTS, Manitoba Hydro (which will begin constructing a new head office/skyscraper a few blocks away from the new arena next year), CanWest Global and Great West Life. It's definitely not the Silicon Valley, but it's not completely void of commercial presence.

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Old
01-07-2004, 07:01 PM
  #67
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Trying to speak sense to those who want hockey back in Winnipeg is like trying to explain the holes in Jere Lehtinen's game to Modano=God.

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Old
01-07-2004, 08:42 PM
  #68
kenabnrmal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Trying to speak sense to those who want hockey back in Winnipeg is like trying to explain the holes in Jere Lehtinen's game to Modano=God.
There are very few who expect to possibly see the NHL back in Winnipeg anytime soon. Pretty much everyone arguing the side opposite to you is admitting that a whole great deal needs to happen before its even feasible. Most of us are simply saying its not impossible, and worth exploring in a general sense. I don't for the life of me know where you dug up so much bitterness towards the idea.

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Old
01-07-2004, 08:52 PM
  #69
Frozen North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zherdev
Sure the new arena being built in Winnipeg is a gem, for an AHL team. If they can't cram at least another 2500 seats, the whole project about bringing the Jets back is a waste of time.

Can anyone tell me if they are going to transfer the portrait of the Queen from the old Winnipeg Arena to the new arena?

Also, does anyone remember who it was that hit it with a puck a number of years back?

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