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How can you compare Plekanec with Bergeron ?

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Old
06-28-2013, 10:37 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Points is one thing...

Impact is a whole other


P.S. Plekanec had 1 more point (33) in 5 more games then Bergeron (32)

Anyone who thinks Plekanec is on Bergeron's level, needs to give their head a shake
I could use your argument to defend Pleks... Pts is one thing but consistently shutting down the opposite team's best line while leading a PK that has been a the top of the league for years, and still have a very comparable ppg% to Bergeron, Pleks is definitely close to Bergeron. I would still take Bergeron, mainly for his faceoff%, but they are not world aparts like you seem to suggest.

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06-28-2013, 10:42 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
I could use your argument to defend Pleks... Pts is one thing but consistently shutting down the opposite team's best line while leading a PK that has been a the top of the league for years, and still have a very comparable ppg% to Bergeron, Pleks is definitely close to Bergeron. I would still take Bergeron, mainly for his faceoff%, but they are not world aparts like you seem to suggest.
When did I suggest they're are worlds apart?

Bergeron is IMO, the best two way player in the NHL...right up there with Toews, Datsyuk.

Plekanec is not in this class...

Just because they have similar roles, does not mean they have the same impact.

Plekanec is a solid 2 way player, he's not the best like Bergeron is...sorry, just because I like Plekanec doesn't mean I can't be objective. You guys can try to make comparisons to points and come up with lame excuses about who each player plays with, but at the end of the day...Bergeron is just plain better, that doesn't mean Plekanec is terrible though

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06-28-2013, 10:47 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
When did I suggest they're are worlds apart?

Bergeron is IMO, the best two way player in the NHL...right up there with Toews, Datsyuk.

Plekanec is not in this class...

Just because they have similar roles, does not mean they have the same impact.

Plekanec is a solid 2 way player, he's not the best like Bergeron is...sorry, just because I like Plekanec doesn't mean I can't be objective. You guys can try to make comparisons to points and come up with lame excuses about who each player plays with, but at the end of the day...Bergeron is just plain better, that doesn't mean Plekanec is terrible though

I wonder when you said that... wait, I think you repeated it in the same post.

They are in the same class. Pleks is one of the best two-way centres in the league and should have been considered for the Selke for many years. The only thing Bergeron has on him is faceoff% and he might be a little (very little) bit more physical.

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06-28-2013, 10:50 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Plekanec being compared to Bergeron is a huge farce. this guy has been a dissapointment in the playoffs, year after year. He is soft and just dissapearas in big game. I hope we can bring in a bigger center then him.
He has 396 points in 598 regular season games for a 0.66 point per game average. In the playoffs, he has 33 points in 52 games for a 0.63 point per game average! Whoa, what A HUGE difference (/sarcasm) During these playoffs, he has generally been the center with the most defensive reponsibilities. Not someone who disappears in tough games for my money.

Plekanec has a lot of value to this team right now. Are there deals I would make if I could involving him - sure! But now, he is a very good two way center who is very smart, offensively and defensively aware, willing to take on any role asked of him by his team and players like that do not grow on trees. As a matter of fact, he is a great mentor to Eller and Galchenyuk (and even perhaps Gallagher) who may have better overall skills but as not in his level of play yet.

It would have to be a very good deal for me to trade him.

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06-28-2013, 10:55 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
I wonder when you said that... wait, I think you repeated it in the same post.

They are in the same class. Pleks is one of the best two-way centres in the league and should have been considered for the Selke for many years. The only thing Bergeron has on him is faceoff% and he might be a little (very little) bit more physical.
Well i'm not really interested in a 'semantics' debate here...

Bergeron is a Selke winner and multiple nominee

Plekanec is not

Hence the different class...that's not an insult, it's just reality. While you may think he should have been considered for the Selke for many years, he hasn't.

IMO, Plekanec is NOT one of the best 2 way centers in the league...Bergeron, Toews, Datsyuk are.

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06-28-2013, 11:01 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
I could use your argument to defend Pleks... Pts is one thing but consistently shutting down the opposite team's best line while leading a PK that has been a the top of the league for years, and still have a very comparable ppg% to Bergeron, Pleks is definitely close to Bergeron. I would still take Bergeron, mainly for his faceoff%, but they are not world aparts like you seem to suggest.
BTW - the Habs finished 23rd in PK last year

Furthermore, it's ridiculous to think that one player is entirely responsible for the success (or failure) of a teams PK.

You and many other have an inflated worth of Plekanec's value because he happens to be the Habs most complete player. But that doesn't mean he's one of the NHL's most complete players

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06-28-2013, 11:08 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
BTW - the Habs finished 23rd in PK last year

Furthermore, it's ridiculous to think that one player is entirely responsible for the success (or failure) of a teams PK.

You and many other have an inflated worth of Plekanec's value because he happens to be the Habs most complete player. But that doesn't mean he's one of the NHL's most complete players
Well we'll have to agree to disagree, I do think Pleks is one of the best two way centres in the league, and I watch my fair share of games from other teams. And fwiw Bergeron is not in the same class as Toews and Datsyuk, he's in Pleks' class.

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06-28-2013, 11:13 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
Well we'll have to agree to disagree, I do think Pleks is one of the best two way centres in the league, and I watch my fair share of games from other teams. And fwiw Bergeron is not in the same class as Toews and Datsyuk, he's in Pleks' class.
Selke awards/nominations & Stanley Cups contradict this 'theory'

But to each his own I guess

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06-28-2013, 11:19 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Selke awards/nominations & Stanley Cups contradict this 'theory'

But to each his own I guess
I think I missed the seasons when Bergeron had 97pts or scored more than 22 goals.

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06-28-2013, 11:25 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Points is one thing...

Impact is a whole other

P.S. Plekanec had 1 more point (33) in 5 more games then Bergeron (32)

Anyone who thinks Plekanec is on Bergeron's level, needs to give their head a shake
That's what I am saying. The difference in points production is insignificant between the two. You can bring up face off wins. However, it goes back to scoring points. Did that FO win result in points? Obviously didn't make much difference.

Impact is in the eye of the beholder. Results are on the stat sheets.

Both players are impact players. Pleks desperately needs better wings to play with. That's the biggest issue.

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06-28-2013, 11:28 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
I think I missed the seasons when Bergeron had 97pts or scored more than 22 goals.
What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Has Toews ever had seasons of 97ts and 22+ goals?

What does this have to do with whether or not Plekanec is one of the NHL's best two way players as you claim?

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06-28-2013, 11:30 AM
  #112
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That's what I am saying. The difference in points production is insignificant between the two. You can bring up face off wins. However, it goes back to scoring points. Did that FO win result in points? Obviously didn't make much difference.

Impact is in the eye of the beholder. Results are on the stat sheets.

Both players are impact players. Pleks desperately needs better wings to play with. That's the biggest issue.
Again...and respectfully, I really like Plekanec as a player

But impact player and Tomas Plekanec do not belong in the same sentence.

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06-28-2013, 11:38 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Has Toews ever had seasons of 97ts and 22+ goals?

What does this have to do with whether or not Plekanec is one of the NHL's best two way players as you claim?
It was in response to your claim that Bergeron is in the same league as Datsyuk and Toews, not comparing him with Pleks.

But anyway i'm done on this topic, as I said earlier we'll have to agree to disagree.

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06-28-2013, 11:53 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
It was in response to your claim that Bergeron is in the same league as Datsyuk and Toews, not comparing him with Pleks.

But anyway i'm done on this topic, as I said earlier we'll have to agree to disagree.
Well Toews never put up those numbers...and you have no issues with putting him in Datsyuk's class?

Yeah, no doubt you're done on this topic...cause now you're just throwing anything out there

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06-28-2013, 12:00 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Well Toews never put up those numbers...and you have no issues with putting him in Datsyuk's class?

Yeah, no doubt you're done on this topic...cause now you're just throwing anything out there
Sure friend, not like Toews captained two SC teams and was key in winning olympic gold while Bergeron was keeping the bench warm.

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06-28-2013, 12:04 PM
  #116
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Sure friend, not like Toews captained two SC teams and was key in winning olympic gold while Bergeron was keeping the bench warm.
Yeah...you're right.

Patrice Bergeron wasn't a key player during the Bruins Cup run in 2011 and this year, he was completely anonymous in helping the Bruins get to the Finals

Question...while Patrice Bergeron was 'keeping the bench warm' for Team Canada at the Olympics.

What was Plekanec doing?

You're just throwing crap against the wall at this point and hoping it sticks

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06-28-2013, 12:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Yeah...you're right.

Patrice Bergeron wasn't a key player during the Bruins Cup run in 2011 and this year, he was completely anonymous in helping the Bruins get to the Finals

Question...while Patrice Bergeron was 'keeping the bench warm' for Team Canada at the Olympics.

What was Plekanec doing?

You're just throwing crap against the wall at this point and hoping it sticks
No need to get unpleasant, and you can't deny that Bergeron was barely playing while Toews was the go to guy for all defensive missions and had 8 pts in 7 games, while bergeron had... 1.

And pleks was playing on the Czech first line as usual.

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06-28-2013, 12:18 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
No need to get unpleasant, and you can't deny that Bergeron was barely playing while Toews was the go to guy for all defensive missions and had 8 pts in 7 games, while bergeron had... 1.

And pleks was playing on the Czech first line as usual.
And where did the Czech finish in that tournament compared to the Canadian team?

The Canadian team was/is MUCH, MUCH deeper then the Czech team

Again...it's really not my intention to blast Plekanec because I don't think he deserves it

But many of you have put him on a pedestal which I don't think is warranted

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06-28-2013, 12:19 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
And where did the Czech finish in that tournament compared to the Canadian team?

The Canadian team was/is MUCH, MUCH deeper then the Czech team

Again...it's really not my intention to blast Plekanec because I don't think he deserves it

But many of you have put him on a pedestal which I don't think is warranted
Are you trying to blame Plekanec for the Czech NT being inferior to Canada?

Bergeron is a much better player than Plekanec, but crediting both of them individually for their NT performances is even worse than comparing the Bruins to the (sadly) inferior Habs.

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06-28-2013, 12:23 PM
  #120
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Are you trying to blame Plekanec for the Czech NT being inferior to Canada?

Bergeron is a much better player than Plekanec, but crediting both of them individually for their NT performances is even worse than comparing the Bruins to the (sadly) inferior Habs.
Yes....that's EXACTLY what i'm trying to do...can't get anything by you

Sigh...I've gotten sucked into a ridiculous debate with "Hullois" the poster which doesn't even make sense

Of course he's not responsible for the Czech being inferior to Team Canada

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06-28-2013, 12:34 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Exactly how I feel about Plekanec...solid player, but overrated by most Habs fans.

He's not the two way dynamo most portray him to be. His seasons tend to mirror themselves, strong starts until he reaches a climax then he disapears as the games become more and more important down the stretch.

Though even at his worst, he remains a solid player who won't hurt you...just don't expect him to elevate his game when you need it
Hey, that's what my wife says about me.
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pretty much. It's funny how Pleks never gets the defacto DD defense (or DDDD) of 'Well you just gotta play him with big power wingers!!111!'


Give Pleks some great power wingers and many in this thread eat lots of crow.
There's no doubt that we've done no favours for ourselves with our lack of size. Plecs, Max... tons of guys would play a lot rougher if they had protection. Look at Price this year, NOBODY clearing pucks or helping him out. And nobody (other than little Gallagher) parks themselves in front of the net. It's a dimension we've been missing for a long, long time.

I think about A Kostitsyn and how much better he could've been if he had an elite center and some power forwards to play with. People say he was a bust but really, we did very little to help him succeed.

As for Plecs, yes some big wingers would help. But regardless, he's still a little to soft for my tastes. If he had a little more grit (heart?) he'd be a much, much better player.
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A certain amount of size yes is important, but also the ability to play big, and this is something Plekenec has difficulty doing, Look no further than our own team, Gallagher is small but can complete in the hard areas to get goals. Look at Kane from Chicago, conn smyth winner, battled against one of the leagues toughest and biggest defense and still came out on top. so I think we have to start talking less about pure size and more about players who can play big.
Gallagher is a great example. Kane, not so much.
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
So now Plekanec is a third line center? Third line centers are in the top 20 in points while playing a two-way role with the majority of their starts in the defensive zone?

You know, there's more to hockey than what commentators say on RDS and TSN, right?

And yes, the only comparison with Bergeron is their tactical role. Bergeron is also a top 10, maybe top 5 centre in the league. Do we have to trade Pacioretty too for not being Corey Perry?
Bergeron is not a top five center in this league and probably not top ten. He's a solid two way guy who's being massively overrated. He's not Datsyuk, Toews, Stamkos, Crosby, Tavares, Malkin, Giroux... Yes, he's more complete on D than some of these players but there's no way in hell I'd take him ahead of say... Tavares. Tavares can carry a team by himself in a way that Bergeron can't. And Bergeron has a LOT of support behind him.
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Kane makes Plekanec look like a power forward. It's not always about cliches about "playing big", the reason Kane came through in the playoffs is because he's ridiculously skilled.
And because his linemates did all the dirty work. Toews was unbelievable in front of the net and Bickell went right after Chara.

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06-28-2013, 02:02 PM
  #122
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Again...and respectfully, I really like Plekanec as a player

But impact player and Tomas Plekanec do not belong in the same sentence.
How do you know that. Plekanec rarely got injured. You say like Plekanec has no impact in this team.

Again, its so easy to bash a player on a team that was never really that good compared to a player in well balanced team with depth and quality wingers.

I said it and will say it again, put Plekanec in Bergeron or Krejci's spot, he will be just as important for his team as those players.

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06-28-2013, 02:06 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Bergeron is not a top five center in this league and probably not top ten. He's a solid two way guy who's being massively overrated. He's not Datsyuk, Toews, Stamkos, Crosby, Tavares, Malkin, Giroux... Yes, he's more complete on D than some of these players but there's no way in hell I'd take him ahead of say... Tavares. Tavares can carry a team by himself in a way that Bergeron can't. And Bergeron has a LOT of support behind him.
Those are probably the only Cs I'd take over Bergeron in the league. And I'm not sure if I'd take Giroux over him. And while Bergeron can't score the way Tavares or Stamkos does, I doubt either of them can still dominate shifts in a brutal difficult rule like Bergeron does. Toews is better, but I'm not convinced the difference is as much as I used to think. Bergeron is the rare sort of player that not only makes his linemates better, but makes every forward on the team better - he's the number one reason guys like Krejci and Lucic can be as effective as they are by sucking up so many matchups. No line in the league matches up well against Bergeron.

Just look at what happens when the Bruins play the Habs. Plekanec usually shuts down the Krejci line (for all the talk about Plek being "soft", it's the Bruins finesse players that kill him - something Julien adjusted well to last year. Lucic does very little against Plek's line.), but we have no answer for Bergeron.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
And because his linemates did all the dirty work. Toews was unbelievable in front of the net and Bickell went right after Chara.
And this plays a big part of it. Plekanec plays a perimeter game because it's his game, as it is of plenty of players in the NHL, including those on cup winning teams every year. Guys who are faster than they are strong shouldn't be killing their careers by crashing and banging 24/7, that's a stupid waste of assets. It's about having the proper mix, as it always has been. Even the great Bergeron, who is strong enough to get involved, is better when his linemates are the ones doing the dirty work.

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06-28-2013, 02:12 PM
  #124
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How do you know that. Plekanec rarely got injured. You say like Plekanec has no impact in this team.

Again, its so easy to bash a player on a team that was never really that good compared to a player in well balanced team with depth and quality wingers.

I said it and will say it again, put Plekanec in Bergeron or Krejci's spot, he will be just as important for his team as those players.
I'm not bashing Plekanec...i'm not saying he's a terrible player and he's useles.. That's bashing a player

Saying he's not an impactful player is just saying it like it is...

Bergeron impacts the game in all 3 zones

I realize that that Plekanec is an important player to the Habs, he's their most complete player and he's pretty much Mr. Do-it-all for the habs

But personally, if you take away Bergeron and Plekanec from each team...I happen to think that Bergeron's impact will be felt much more on the Bruins, then Plekanec on the Habs

This idea of if you switch players on each respective team is ridiculous and just a way for habs fans to try to compare each player to each other. There isnt a single GM in the NHL who would take Plekanec before Bergeron, that's not an insult to Plekanec...more of a compliment to Bergeron.

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06-28-2013, 03:23 PM
  #125
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not saying that either, but if we do sign vinny plekanec becomes expendable. might be the best time to ship him off for a young winger like stewart or ryan
i dont see us being contenders in the next 3 years so we'll most likely just end up killing his value if we dont move him, plus im pretty sure we would improve as a team if we got lecavalier + ryan/stewart instead of plek anyways
hi
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1456075

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