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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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Old
06-28-2013, 12:20 PM
  #826
Gord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
That's where I'm at as well. The good teams in the league have a lot of NMC/NTC contracts.

Hawks have 6
Bruins have 11
Detroit has 7
Penguins have 8

Oilers have 1
you should take a look at the bad teams that gave them out. look where Calgary was, for example.
didn't they have 9?
I don't think you can make a direct correlation between giving out a lot of NTC/NMC's and being a good team

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06-28-2013, 12:32 PM
  #827
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If he wants a NTC then he should be giving us a discount. 5m a year with a NTC is horrible IMO.

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06-28-2013, 01:14 PM
  #828
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At least be nice and say 28. Nobody should have to go to the Flames
Then it could be officially a limited NMC.

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06-28-2013, 01:18 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by MetaOil1993 View Post
If he wants a NTC then he should be giving us a discount. 5m a year with a NTC is horrible IMO.
This is what signifies the true total horror of the Horcoff contract.

They gave him max value dollars.
They gave him term.
They gave him the NTC clause.

I agree with most others on here, there has to be a trade off. You want term? You sacrifice dollars. You want dollars? You sacrifice term and traded clauses.

I'd like the Oilers to have ZERO ntc or nmc at all, none and make it a team policy. Will it hurt the team at times? Perhaps but there is nothing worse than being stuck with a player.

There is no sign in overpaying a player short term but there sure is long term. Offer a two year deal at a premium number. Then reevaluate in a year or two.

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06-28-2013, 01:46 PM
  #830
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So Gagner wants around $5M/year AND a NTC/NMC? Sorry, would be a stupid move if Edmonton gave him all of that. I'd give him around $4M to include the NTC.

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06-28-2013, 01:49 PM
  #831
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Best compromise could be a limited NMC for first 2 or 3 yrs but contract for 5-6 yrs in the 4.25-4.75 range

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06-28-2013, 02:20 PM
  #832
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Gagner is going to negotiate for the best contract he can get. It's still a long off season MacT can just dig his heals in. The only RFA offer he's going to get that we wouldn't match is 5 plus, and that would return a 1st-2nd-3rd so not too shabby. I doubt too many teams want to give him term, money, and lose all their picks for a player who had his breakout season in a shortened year. Way too much risk IMO.

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06-28-2013, 03:04 PM
  #833
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Horcoff Jr.

At least Shawn had proven something when he signed his deal. You don't pay 4.5M+ & NTC for a 20 game hot streak in a shortened season and unfulfilled potential.

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06-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Horcoff Jr.

At least Shawn had proven something when he signed his deal. You don't pay 4.5M+ & NTC for a 20 game hot streak in a shortened season and unfulfilled potential.
Well, get ready to either be disappointed or watch the #2 C on the team get shipped out of town.

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06-28-2013, 04:10 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Well, get ready to either be disappointed or watch the #2 C on the team get shipped out of town.
Probably. The same idiot who wrote up the Horcoff contract is still in charge.

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06-28-2013, 04:29 PM
  #836
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gotta think this will be settled before the draft

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06-28-2013, 04:35 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by AlowlyOilersfan View Post
gotta think this will be settled before the draft
doesnt have to... MacT should be focused on the draft and trades...
If we can get a Weiss or Lecavalier ... i wouldtn want Gagner for 3.5M ..
Lets get all the drafting and trading done and then evaluat Gagner's spot on the roster and his worth to this organization.

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06-28-2013, 04:48 PM
  #838
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gotta think this will be settled before the draft
July 5th is the deadline day I think

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06-28-2013, 04:54 PM
  #839
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Did anyone else catch oilers now the other day where the fill in host threw out his opinion on why Gagner is hacked on by the fans. Apparently he feels there is a prairie bias against the ontario kid whose dad was an NHL player and went through life with a silver spoon up is ass. I don't think this has ever crossed my mind. Is there any validity to this assessment?


Last edited by KlimasLoveChild: 06-28-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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06-28-2013, 04:58 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Did anyone else catch oilers now the other day where the fill in host through out his opinion on why Gagner is hacked on by the fans. Apparently he feels there is a prairie bias against the ontario kid whose dad was an NHL player and went through life with a silver spoon up is ass. I don't think this has ever crossed my mind. Is there any validity to this assessment?
I can't speak for others but I have never heard of that or thought of that until now

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06-28-2013, 04:59 PM
  #841
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nope

it's bad turnovers(spinorama slow motion passes) and inconsistent offense

He's not a great faceoff guy either



He isn't Comrie.

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06-28-2013, 05:18 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
Did anyone else catch oilers now the other day where the fill in host threw out his opinion on why Gagner is hacked on by the fans. Apparently he feels there is a prairie bias against the ontario kid whose dad was an NHL player and went through life with a silver spoon up is ass. I don't think this has ever crossed my mind. Is there any validity to this assessment?


If anything it's his size. If Gagner was 6'3 220 lbs people wouldn't say anything.

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06-28-2013, 05:25 PM
  #843
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If anything it's his size. If Gagner was 6'3 220 lbs people wouldn't say anything.
No a center who plays like a winger, is slow, cant win faceoffs, cant win puck battles, doesnt hit anything, turns the puck over constantly, cant cover anyone in the D zone and is 6'3" 220lbs would get ragged on way more than Gagner does. Take Jiri Dopita for example.

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Old
06-28-2013, 05:33 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
No a center who plays like a winger, is slow, cant win faceoffs, cant win puck battles, doesnt hit anything, turns the puck over constantly, cant cover anyone in the D zone and is 6'3" 220lbs would get ragged on way more than Gagner does. Take Jiri Dopita for example.
Gagner's a center???

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Old
06-28-2013, 05:41 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
No a center who plays like a winger, is slow, cant win faceoffs, cant win puck battles, doesnt hit anything, turns the puck over constantly, cant cover anyone in the D zone and is 6'3" 220lbs would get ragged on way more than Gagner does. Take Jiri Dopita for example.
Haha true, I'd like to think if he was that big it would eliminate some of those concerns but yeah... there's more than one reason why people rag on Sammy G.

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Old
06-28-2013, 05:41 PM
  #846
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My own take on some of the specific Gagner dislike is that its generalized association with a team that was unsuccessful for a long period of time. Skewed as well by some other vets that simply haven't played very well.

I always think a certain shiny new plaything ethos exists where the new high profile recruits are valued and vets are not and that Gagner gets nailed more for the duration and time period he has spent here than anything else. That people in simplest terms don't want anything to do with players that were here throughout all the suck. Like a bad memory, get rid of all of it.

Just consider for instance the rumor of the NMC. This could either be viewed as a rare positive sign of a player for once communicating wanting to remain here or it can be viewed immediately with suspicion, "whats he up to? who does he think he is? he's going to stick it to us! Its a lemon contract, I can smell it.." The latter comments being more due to gathered impressions from contracts that haven't panned out here . Horcoff has nothing to do with Gagner, he really doesn't, but it does form associative connections in the fanbase. In this way Gagner inherits some of Horcs *guilt* for sheer reason of association.

This is of course not the whole thing but I think its a larger part of perception than people generally recognize.

Gagner would be a popular player immediately almost anywhere else.


Last edited by Replacement: 06-28-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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Old
06-28-2013, 05:47 PM
  #847
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Gagner would be amazing if he were bigger.
Most of his downfalls are due to his size.

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Old
06-28-2013, 05:57 PM
  #848
KlimasLoveChild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
No a center who plays like a winger, is slow, cant win faceoffs, cant win puck battles, doesnt hit anything, turns the puck over constantly, cant cover anyone in the D zone and is 6'3" 220lbs would get ragged on way more than Gagner does. Take Jiri Dopita for example.
Ya but....he can fight!

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06-28-2013, 06:29 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Turrican View Post
Gagner would be amazing if he were bigger.
Most of his downfalls are due to his size.

And the fact that he isn't getting better at faceoffs or defending.

4-4.5 is the max he's worth, period. Even as a UFA it's not like someone's going to pay him 5.5-7 mil or something.

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Old
06-28-2013, 06:32 PM
  #850
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The problem is he's just not a shiny toy anymore. We had SUPER high, unrealistic hopes for how quickly the guy would realize his potential.

We're like jaded lovers... how could he do this to us... he was supposed to be an 80-90 point guy already!!!

If RNH has another season like this past one, or J Schultz continues to play like he did the middle 20 games, watch how quickly the knives get sharpened.

Now if we'd done what we did with Eberle.. keep him in the OHL for another year and then a year in the AHL (I know Ebs only played part of a year there), then Sam would just be finishing his ELC. He'd be getting a bridge contract at $3M and he'd probably be revered as part of the future of the franchise.

Good thing we aren't in charge.

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