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Blues Trade Proposals - Part VII

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06-28-2013, 12:22 PM
  #76
Alklha
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
Your 2nd paragraph would be a massive gamble. Dealing Perron to move up solely to create more cap space to hopefully sign an impact UFA. And then replacing him with a winger who is years away from being as good as Perron. If Perron is dealt it will not be for futures. For all his flaws that his detractors like to cite, he's a very marketable player because of his skill set, age (entering prime) and really good contract. The small market Blues are in as big of a "win-now" moment as they have been since the early 2000's and will not trade core players for futures and what if's.
His contract is fine, it is not "really good". He actually has to start producing for it to be considered that. He hasn't lived up to his cap hit so far.

This idea that the Blues are contending and nobody will ever be moved for futures is just wrong. Will it happen now? Probably not, but it will happen at some point. As I said in the initial post, if the Blues see Rattie or Jaškin as being ready for the NHL then moving him for futures does make some sense. Particularly if we can't afford to be spending the full $64.3m cap.

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06-28-2013, 12:53 PM
  #77
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I have a feeling this is a bad idea, but I'm doing it anyway. Berglund + Halak + Perron for #2. I'm not sure if that is enough or overpayment, but I think the roster would be better.

Backes, Oshie, Steen, Stewart, Schwartz, Cracknell, Porter, Reaves, Sobotka, Tarasenko, #2, (Rattie? Jaskin? Briere?)

It can't be that hard to find a 3rd line winger that would be able to play with Sobo and one of Stewart, Tarasenko or Oshie.

What do you guys think? How would Florida feel? Am I dumb?

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06-28-2013, 01:05 PM
  #78
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I have a feeling this is a bad idea, but I'm doing it anyway. Berglund + Halak + Perron for #2. I'm not sure if that is enough or overpayment, but I think the roster would be better.

Backes, Oshie, Steen, Stewart, Schwartz, Cracknell, Porter, Reaves, Sobotka, Tarasenko, #2, (Rattie? Jaskin? Briere?)

It can't be that hard to find a 3rd line winger that would be able to play with Sobo and one of Stewart, Tarasenko or Oshie.

What do you guys think? How would Florida feel? Am I dumb?
Actually that sounds pretty fair, don't know how much Florida needs a goaltender with Markstrom and Clemmensen though. Don't know if we would trade Berglund after just signing him but I would be happy if this trade went down.

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06-28-2013, 01:21 PM
  #79
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I have a feeling this is a bad idea, but I'm doing it anyway. Berglund + Halak + Perron for #2. I'm not sure if that is enough or overpayment, but I think the roster would be better.

Backes, Oshie, Steen, Stewart, Schwartz, Cracknell, Porter, Reaves, Sobotka, Tarasenko, #2, (Rattie? Jaskin? Briere?)

It can't be that hard to find a 3rd line winger that would be able to play with Sobo and one of Stewart, Tarasenko or Oshie.

What do you guys think? How would Florida feel? Am I dumb?
I think it would really depend on who the Avs take. If they take Mackinnon, I think Fla will probably want Jones at #2. Since Fla has Markstrom on the way up and C is a much bigger need than D right now for the Blues, maybe we try dangling that package to Tampa at #3 then try to take Barkov. They have Bishop/Lindback so I think Halak might be an upgrade in goal for them, but Tampa fans might not see it that way. Tampa would probably ask for Shattenkirk+ in a deal for #3

While the value might be there, I doubt a team in the top 3 will take that package and risk losing a potential superstar player. But from a Blues perspective if that kind of deal is on the table I for sure take it.

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06-28-2013, 01:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ExJbeck View Post
I have a feeling this is a bad idea, but I'm doing it anyway. Berglund + Halak + Perron for #2. I'm not sure if that is enough or overpayment, but I think the roster would be better.

Backes, Oshie, Steen, Stewart, Schwartz, Cracknell, Porter, Reaves, Sobotka, Tarasenko, #2, (Rattie? Jaskin? Briere?)

It can't be that hard to find a 3rd line winger that would be able to play with Sobo and one of Stewart, Tarasenko or Oshie.

What do you guys think? How would Florida feel? Am I dumb?
I don't think it is close really. They have Bjugstad, who they have to feel will be their Berglund going forward. They have a couple of excellent goalie prospects, and if they want someone now then there are plenty available for peanuts (also the Luongo potential). Perron is a nice piece, but wingers of that calibre aren't that difficult to pick up in trade of in UFA. There isn't anything to make you consider moving a pick that has a high potential to be elite, and they really need some elite talent.

I think Tampa Bay were the ones who had the highest potential to move their pick since they weren't your typical team picking that high. Shattenkirk and Perron would have addressed their 2 clear needs. Since they bought out Lecavalier that has all changed.

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06-28-2013, 01:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ExJbeck View Post
I have a feeling this is a bad idea, but I'm doing it anyway. Berglund + Halak + Perron for #2. I'm not sure if that is enough or overpayment, but I think the roster would be better.

Backes, Oshie, Steen, Stewart, Schwartz, Cracknell, Porter, Reaves, Sobotka, Tarasenko, #2, (Rattie? Jaskin? Briere?)

It can't be that hard to find a 3rd line winger that would be able to play with Sobo and one of Stewart, Tarasenko or Oshie.

What do you guys think? How would Florida feel? Am I dumb?
Florida would hate it b/c they would be giving up a potential franchise defenseman for a group of players that are extremely close to free agency.

In two years, that trade could wind up being Seth Jones for David Perron.

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06-28-2013, 01:47 PM
  #82
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His contract is fine, it is not "really good". He actually has to start producing for it to be considered that. He hasn't lived up to his cap hit so far.

This idea that the Blues are contending and nobody will ever be moved for futures is just wrong. Will it happen now? Probably not, but it will happen at some point. As I said in the initial post, if the Blues see Rattie or Jaškin as being ready for the NHL then moving him for futures does make some sense. Particularly if we can't afford to be spending the full $64.3m cap.
Happen at "some point" while constantly assessing team needs, individual performance, and internal budgetary matters is different than dealing one of the core this current offseason for a pick unless we're talking top 5 premo pick.

The conversation started with someone putting out a hypothetical of Perron for a "7-12" pick to clear way for a hypothetical UFA center for a team that recent history tells us doesn't get involved and/or has the financial means to outbid other parties while operating in city that isn't destination central for free agents.

And as I've mentioned 18 times this offseason, the Blues do not have elite talent so expecting first year players to come in and be impact players like Brandon Saad is entirely unrealistic. No matter what management thinks of Rattie or Jaskin's NHL readiness, exchanging either of those two for Perron with all things being equal would be a giant step downward for this current season....and it will be a season in which expectations will once again be high.

Make no mistake, the Blues, while not as ostentatious as other big market teams, are very much in a win-now mode. You don't deal 2nd rounders for the likes of Jordan Leopold and inherit $13.5 million worth of salary if you aren't trying to win a Stanley Cup. And you don't deal solid core players unless you're getting other, theoretically better players(s) in return that can impact your roster right now.

Armstrong pretty much admitted the other day that he could trade any of these guys, the Perron's, Berglund's, and Stewart's for likely mid-late first rounders this second but it makes no sense considering what the franchise is right now.

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06-28-2013, 02:00 PM
  #83
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Of course we are looking to win now, that doesn't automatically mean that all roster players don't ever get moved for futures. What Armstrong says to the media and what he does can be 2 entirely different things. You look at ways to improve the team.

I completely agree that we aren't going to move Perron for futures on the basis of a plan to sign someone down the road. We'd need some certainty.

The biggest question right now is how Hitchcock sees Sobotka going forward. Given his comments about seeing Berglund/Backes on the wing, I would assume that he sees Sobotka as our #3C going forward. Which means if we were to sign a buyout or trade for the rights of an upcoming UFA (Weiss?), then that would give us 10 "top 9" players and be very close to the cap.

The chance of moving Perron for futures in that situation are pretty good.

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06-28-2013, 02:14 PM
  #84
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Of course we are looking to win now, that doesn't automatically mean that all roster players don't ever get moved for futures. What Armstrong says to the media and what he does can be 2 entirely different things. You look at ways to improve the team.
I don't have a problem with that depending on depth of the position he plays, contract status, skill set, injury history, playoff performance, etc.

Philly's beat writer just speculated that Holmgren has been kicking the tires on Halak and the reported asking price was a 1st rounder. I'd pull the trigger on that in a heart beat because I'm comfortable with an Elliott/Allen tandem and Halak is a UFA to be.

I am not, however, comfortable dealing a player who represents the biggest weakness of the team and then not replacing him with an equal or better player. That's pretty much the situation with every forward on the roster right now and I completely believe Armstrong when he said that "players for picks" quote the other day.

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06-28-2013, 02:24 PM
  #85
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I don't have a problem with that depending on depth of the position he plays, contract status, skill set, injury history, playoff performance, etc.

Philly's beat writer just speculated that Holmgren has been kicking the tires on Halak and the reported asking price was a 1st rounder. I'd pull the trigger on that in a heart beat because I'm comfortable with an Elliott/Allen tandem and Halak is a UFA to be.

I am not, however, comfortable dealing a player who represents the biggest weakness of the team and then not replacing him with an equal or better player. That's pretty much the situation with every forward on the roster right now and I completely believe Armstrong when he said that "players for picks" quote the other day.
If Army gets a first round pick out of Philly, I'll be ecstatic.

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06-28-2013, 03:11 PM
  #86
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How do you guys feel about Plekanec, I love him and don't really want to see him go but word is Bergevin is quietly determining his worth.. Seems like you guys really want a centre and we're hard up on right wing

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06-28-2013, 03:46 PM
  #87
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Well Richards isn't getting bought out this summer, which is a bit of a surprise.

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06-28-2013, 03:50 PM
  #88
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Well Richards isn't getting bought out this summer, which is a bit of a surprise.
I disagree, I think he could bounce back and play well under his new coach

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06-28-2013, 05:04 PM
  #89
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How do you guys feel about Plekanec, I love him and don't really want to see him go but word is Bergevin is quietly determining his worth.. Seems like you guys really want a centre and we're hard up on right wing
For the right price I'd be thrilled to land him.

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06-28-2013, 05:26 PM
  #90
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How do you guys feel about Plekanec, I love him and don't really want to see him go but word is Bergevin is quietly determining his worth.. Seems like you guys really want a centre and w.e're hard up on right wing
Hmmm....how about this scenario; Habs sign Lecavalier, trade Plekanec to St.Louis for Perron and...(holding my breath ), Halak. Montreal gets their fan favourite goalie back, a French Canadian right winger without creating a hole at center and the Blues get the number one centre they need and shed enough salary to afford him. Fire away!

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06-28-2013, 07:11 PM
  #91
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Yeah we'd surely be happy with Plekanec.

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06-28-2013, 07:26 PM
  #92
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Hmmm....how about this scenario; Habs sign Lecavalier, trade Plekanec to St.Louis for Perron and...(holding my breath ), Halak. Montreal gets their fan favourite goalie back, a French Canadian right winger without creating a hole at center and the Blues get the number one centre they need and shed enough salary to afford him. Fire away!
MTL adds a 3rd or 4th and I'd do it.

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06-28-2013, 07:53 PM
  #93
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Love that trade even without the pick added, mostly because we don't have to deal Cole. Also, Pleckanec was my second choice behind Stastny.

Frank-Pleck-Stew
Steen-Backes-Schwartz
Sobotka-Berglund-Oshie
CPR

x-Jaskin, <depth verteran/other callup>

Jbo-Petro
Jackman-Shatty
Leopold/Russell-Polak

Cole/Russell, Hakanpaa

Elliott
Allen


Goalie would then be the only weakness we'd have, and we could address that at the deadline (Miller?).

But yes, that team is a clear cut cup contender.

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06-28-2013, 07:55 PM
  #94
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MTL adds a 3rd or 4th and I'd do it.
add in Tinordi and Cole and I'll do it....

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06-28-2013, 07:55 PM
  #95
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Love that trade even without the pick added, mostly because we don't have to deal Cole. Also, Pleckanec was my second choice behind Stastny.

Frank-Pleck-Stew
Steen-Backes-Schwartz
Sobotka-Berglund-Oshie
CPR

x-Jaskin, <depth verteran/other callup>

Jbo-Petro
Jackman-Shatty
Leopold/Russell-Polak

Cole/Russell, Hakanpaa

Elliott
Allen


Goalie would then be the only weakness we'd have, and we could address that at the deadline (Miller?).

But yes, that team is a clear cut cup contender.
Tarasenko doesn't fit on the LW IMO. Swap him and Schwartz.

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06-28-2013, 08:00 PM
  #96
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Tarasenko doesn't fit on the LW IMO. Swap him and Schwartz.
Ah.

That works out because Stewart now has two playmakers to work with (hopefully good enough to replicate the effects of playing with Stastny), and I think Frank-Backes-Steen, while defensive heavy, still gives Tarasenko the room he needs.

Still would like to see him with a "playmaker" at some point in his career though (an Oates to his Hull, basically).

Hmm...

I wonder if we could swap Price for Halak in the same deal?

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06-28-2013, 08:05 PM
  #97
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I honestly think a Steen-Backes-Tarasenko line would be great. Maybe once Tarasenko and Schwartz both get completely comfortable they can play together and we'd be set. Backes can draw attention away from Tarasenko and Steen/Schwartz and do their work behind the net to get passes to Frank.

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06-29-2013, 11:43 AM
  #98
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Seguin is apparently on the trade block. Wonder what he would cost.

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06-29-2013, 11:45 AM
  #99
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Seguin is apparently on the trade block. Wonder what he would cost.
I would imagine that it would need to be around Tarasenko or Shattenkirk if we were interested.

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06-29-2013, 11:48 AM
  #100
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I would imagine that it would need to be around Tarasenko or Shattenkirk if we were interested.
I would have to think long and hard about that.

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