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Round 2, Vote 2 (HFNYR Top NYR Defensemen)

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06-28-2013, 08:46 PM
  #51
Chief
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Thanks, but I think since this is region specific, doesn't argue for Pratt ahead of Heller, Gadsby, right?
The Manitoba vote was based on their careers - which still doesn't impact our discussion. That's why I said I wasn't posting it to argue for or against anyone. Just thought it was interesting.

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06-28-2013, 09:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I am primarily guided by skill, and effort; some of these I didn't see play, so I could have some of that wrong, to some degree, but you guys have helped (thanks) posting w/solid detail/insights.


Last call for anyone to change my mind...
So Greschner, who broke our #2 all-time defenseman Park's scoring records, in about the same amount of time, and then held those records until our #1 all-time defenseman Leetch came along can't make your Top 10??? He had offensive skills that most of our remaining candidates didn't have and there was no lack of effort in ol'#4.

Plus he had tenure, 16 seasons. Never wore another NHL sweater. Was one of the top offensive players (not just defesemen) for the team for 5 or 6 seasons. Had a few great seasons, one of which helped the Rangers get to the Finals. Captained the team for a season.

How is that not enough to be Top 10 on this list???

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06-29-2013, 06:09 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
So Greschner, who broke our #2 all-time defenseman Park's scoring records, in about the same amount of time, and then held those records until our #1 all-time defenseman Leetch came along can't make your Top 10??? He had offensive skills that most of our remaining candidates didn't have and there was no lack of effort in ol'#4.

Plus he had tenure, 16 seasons. Never wore another NHL sweater. Was one of the top offensive players (not just defesemen) for the team for 5 or 6 seasons. Had a few great seasons, one of which helped the Rangers get to the Finals. Captained the team for a season.

How is that not enough to be Top 10 on this list???

You make a strong case.
I can't articulate it better, it's just that on seeing those recent guys play, I prefer Beck and Neilson is better defensively. As to the older guys, it seems they were super D shutdown wizards.

However, I will bump Gresch up a bit based on your emphatic plea.

6 Ott Heller
7 Bill Gadsby
8 Babe Pratt
9 Earl Seibert
10 Barry Beck

11 Ron Greschner
12 Jim Neilson

Beck got injured, and I shouldn't mark him on a curve too much over or under for that. If you gave me choice of either, square 1, Beck is who I'd take. Better shot, better D, better bodychecking, skating to Gresch.

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06-30-2013, 09:27 AM
  #54
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In doing my research, I actually gained greater appreciation for Greschner. I didn't realize just how good he was offensively.

I think Greschner's injuries (5 seasons with at least 30 games lost to injuries) hurt his legacy...but...

In 77-78 Greschner was 4th among all defensemen in scoring (Potvin, Park, Salming were 1-3). In 78-79 Greschner scored 53 points in 60 games. Potvin was far ahead of everyone that season in scoring and Larry Robinson and Robert Picard joined Salming, Park and Greschner as players who were in the point-per-game neighborhood.

8 seasons with double-digit goals. 4 with over 20 goals and he had 17 in only 48 games due to the lockout-shortened season in 94-95...and he had 17 goals in 60 games in 78-79.

I won't post anymore of his stats. Everyone knows where to find them but he has climbed a bit on my final list.

Neilson is a guy I dropped because he was no better than 3rd best on his Ranger team depth charts for a lot of his Ranger tenure. I am going to drop one of Heller or Pratt as well for the same reason. It strikes me as a mistake to have 3 players who played together on this list - especially if they are all playing the same style.

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