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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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06-28-2013, 06:49 PM
  #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
The problem is he's just not a shiny toy anymore. We had SUPER high, unrealistic hopes for how quickly the guy would realize his potential.

We're like jaded lovers... how could he do this to us... he was supposed to be an 80-90 point guy already!!!

If RNH has another season like this past one, or J Schultz continues to play like he did the middle 20 games, watch how quickly the knives get sharpened.

Now if we'd done what we did with Eberle.. keep him in the OHL for another year and then a year in the AHL (I know Ebs only played part of a year there), then Sam would just be finishing his ELC. He'd be getting a bridge contract at $3M and he'd probably be revered as part of the future of the franchise.

Good thing we aren't in charge.
RNH was a way better player in both zones than SS last year and he was playing with one arm. I think the problem is more that Gagner lovers still see him as their first shiny new toy and still love him the most, he is the blankey/stuffy for the newer generation of Oiler fans

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06-28-2013, 06:52 PM
  #852
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Do people seriously still call Gagner slow? Really? Talk about reaching.

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06-28-2013, 06:52 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
The problem is he's just not a shiny toy anymore. We had SUPER high, unrealistic hopes for how quickly the guy would realize his potential.

We're like jaded lovers... how could he do this to us... he was supposed to be an 80-90 point guy already!!!

If RNH has another season like this past one, or J Schultz continues to play like he did the middle 20 games, watch how quickly the knives get sharpened.

Now if we'd done what we did with Eberle.. keep him in the OHL for another year and then a year in the AHL (I know Ebs only played part of a year there), then Sam would just be finishing his ELC. He'd be getting a bridge contract at $3M and he'd probably be revered as part of the future of the franchise.

Good thing we aren't in charge.
Ya good thing. We might finish 30th again.

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06-28-2013, 06:55 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Do people seriously still call Gagner slow? Really? Talk about reaching.
his top end speed might be close to average for NHL forwards. All other aspects of his skating are below average.

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06-28-2013, 07:01 PM
  #855
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his top end speed might be close to average for NHL forwards. All other aspects of his skating are below average.
Absolute BS

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06-28-2013, 07:06 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
RNH was a way better player in both zones than SS last year and he was playing with one arm. I think the problem is more that Gagner lovers still see him as their first shiny new toy and still love him the most, he is the blankey/stuffy for the newer generation of Oiler fans
Gagner has improved a lot over the past few seasons IMO. Perhaps you are still seeing him as the first shiny toy that you gave up on, and now that he is showing signs of life, it burns you that you gave up so early.

I disagree with most of the things you have posted about Gagner. He has some weaknesses, but you are grossly exaggerating.

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06-28-2013, 07:07 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by Turrican View Post
Gagner would be amazing if he were bigger.
Most of his downfalls are due to his size.
What I think is the problem is that Gagner isn't able to balance the two points of weight and speed. It seems when he's in his speedier mode, he's shed weight, but unfortunately this makes him easier to displace from the puck in puck battles and he's not good enough with his stick (yet) to counteract this.

On the other hand, when he puts on muscle/weight to counteract this, he loses his speed, which we've seen in seasons prior when he's done this. It's a tough position for a player like Gagner.

I hope we keep him around, but not if it means ignoring an upgrade for the sake of "he loves Edmonton."

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06-28-2013, 07:22 PM
  #858
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I don't agree with almost anything nabob says about Gagner, but the thought of paying him even 4.5mill for 4-5 years scares me.

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06-28-2013, 08:18 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
his top end speed might be close to average for NHL forwards. All other aspects of his skating are below average.
That's simply false, you're making yourself look silly by saying things that simply aren't true. He was one of our fastest skaters last year. The only thing I can think of is that you might see him lagging behind Hall who is one of the fastest in the league, but he easily keeps up with the rest of our team except maybe Hemsky.

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06-28-2013, 08:24 PM
  #860
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E

Okay so here is my view on the whole Gagner situation. He was built up by fans myself included to be a 80 point guy after his first season heroics. This didn't happen at all unfortunately. We put him on a pedestal so high by the time we all realized he wasn't our number 1 C alot of people were pissed.

He is a very good 2a/1b center on a line with a good body presence. He needs a big strong LW. Plenty of players take longer to develop and the guys not even 25 yet. Anyone look at Thorton before he was 25 or The Sedins? He wants an NTC because he knows this team will soon be a powerhouse and he WANTS TO WIN A CUP! IN Edmonton. He likes the city he likes the fans his girlfriend is homegrown. He wants to make sure he is an Edmonton Oiler for the coming Turnaround . It's not about the money it's about the return IMO. He's seen so much losing since he came into the league. Everyone says he didn't turn a corner this year? He was a main fixture on our top 10 PK. For someone who apparently can't play defense that's pretty damn impressive. Again he's 23 years old I say Give him the equivellent of the Hemsky deal now 6 years 4.65 per with a limmited NTC for the first 2 years. The kid has bled for this team on many occasions he's always willing to take responsibility after bad games. Never seen Sam duck out after a blowout. He's a good character guy who has earned it.


Last edited by Oilbleeder: 06-28-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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06-28-2013, 08:36 PM
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karsa Orlong View Post
Gagner has improved a lot over the past few seasons IMO. Perhaps you are still seeing him as the first shiny toy that you gave up on, and now that he is showing signs of life, it burns you that you gave up so early.

I disagree with most of the things you have posted about Gagner. He has some weaknesses, but you are grossly exaggerating.
Maybe you saw a good 20 game stretch and thought "WOW Gagner has finally turned the corner!" Then he was one of the Oilers worst forwards more often than not for the final 20 games of the season. Same player, same story. He is what he is. A small, weak, slow, good offensive, weak defensive player.

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06-28-2013, 08:37 PM
  #862
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Where does this mystery "PK fixture" bullshat come from?

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06-28-2013, 08:37 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
I don't agree with almost anything nabob says about Gagner, but the thought of paying him even 4.5mill for 4-5 years scares me.
Seems like a steal compared to paying Hemsky $5M per season when his shoulders are held on with duct tape.

He was the Oilers' second-highest in points last year and once again he played the whole season with a rookie winger. The best rookie winger he has ever had but still a rookie none the less.

I'm excited to see what Gagner can do playing with two players that had more than 80 gp at the start of the season. It's kind of ridiculous that it has still never happened after all these years, especially when he came in as an 18 yr old. What 18 yr old center gets linemates like he did? lmao.

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06-28-2013, 08:52 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
I don't agree with almost anything nabob says about Gagner, but the thought of paying him even 4.5mill for 4-5 years scares me.
He likely wants a long-term contract @ 5M/per. In other words, you should be scared.

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06-28-2013, 09:11 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Where does this mystery "PK fixture" bullshat come from?
I think Replacement and Harpoon were beating that drum pretty hard all season.

He saw some 2nd unit and mop up time when Horcoff and Belanger were injured.


Last edited by nabob: 06-28-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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06-28-2013, 09:39 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
I think Replacement and Harpoon were beating that drum pretty hard all season.

He saw some 2nd unit and mop up time when Horcoff and Belanger were injured.
Ahhh. By acclamation. Pretty much sums up Gagner's career so far. Might as well get paid by acclamation too. Pay the smurf.

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06-28-2013, 10:32 PM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
If RNH has another season like this past one, or J Schultz continues to play like he did the middle 20 games, watch how quickly the knives get sharpened.
Its true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
RNH was a way better player in both zones than SS last year and he was playing with one arm. I think the problem is more that Gagner lovers still see him as their first shiny new toy and still love him the most, he is the blankey/stuffy for the newer generation of Oiler fans
Totally off base. As usual.

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06-28-2013, 10:45 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
I think Replacement and Harpoon were beating that drum pretty hard all season.

He saw some 2nd unit and mop up time when Horcoff and Belanger were injured.
Fifth highest SH TOI among forwards.

Ryan Smyth 118 min
Lennart Petrell 90 min
Eric Belanger 81 min
Shawn Horcoff 77 min
Sam Gagner 76 min

I also saw someone post that he was statistically the best PKer among forwards. I'd appreciate if someone could post those stats on the board since I'm afraid some posters are glossing over the very respectable work Gagner did on the PK last season.

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06-28-2013, 11:21 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Fifth highest SH TOI among forwards.

Ryan Smyth 118 min
Lennart Petrell 90 min
Eric Belanger 81 min
Shawn Horcoff 77 min
Sam Gagner 76 min

I also saw someone post that he was statistically the best PKer among forwards. I'd appreciate if someone could post those stats on the board since I'm afraid some posters are glossing over the very respectable work Gagner did on the PK last season.
Wow 5th! behind two centers who were hurt for large chunks of the year and another forward who was a healthy scratch a lot. Not to mention Jones who was out for a large chunk as well and for sure would have been ahead of Gagner in minutes. Thats like being the 5th ugliest girl at a dance where only 5 girls attend.

What was he in PKTOI/G among forwards?

Not too much to expect him to be ahead of the one armed 19 year old kid in PKTOI is it?

Face it he got the easy mop up minutes. He was the 3rd option for PK C. If Horcoff or Belanger took a penalty he may have had to take a shift on the PK. It wasnt because Gagner was a great PKer that he got PK minutes. It was because the GM who built the team was a moron, it was because the top two options for PK centers got hurt. When Belanger and Horcoff were in the lineup he didnt get PK time.

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06-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #870
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Gagner will keep improving, and it will be easier to find the right wingers to play with Gagner than it's going to be to find another top-6 big two-way center, unless everyone wants to wait on a Monahan.

I don't mind him being an Oiler going forward but I really hope we don't overpay... we can't.

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06-28-2013, 11:23 PM
  #871
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That's simply false, you're making yourself look silly by saying things that simply aren't true. He was one of our fastest skaters last year. The only thing I can think of is that you might see him lagging behind Hall who is one of the fastest in the league, but he easily keeps up with the rest of our team except maybe Hemsky.

Hall,Nuge,Ebs,Horc,Yak, PVR,Belanger, Brown, Jones,Jultz,Hemsky,Petry,Smid,Petrell,are faster .....He is faster then Fistric,Smyth,maybe, NSchultz,Potter,Peckman, that's it....Whitney would give him a go on one good leg.

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06-28-2013, 11:32 PM
  #872
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Wow 5th! behind two centers who were hurt for large chunks of the year and another forward who was a healthy scratch a lot. Not to mention Jones who was out for a large chunk as well and for sure would have been ahead of Gagner in minutes. Thats like being the 5th ugliest girl at a dance where only 5 girls attend.

What was he in PKTOI/G among forwards?

Not too much to expect him to be ahead of the one armed 19 year old kid in PKTOI is it?

Face it he got the easy mop up minutes. He was the 3rd option for PK C. If Horcoff or Belanger took a penalty he may have had to take a shift on the PK. It wasnt because Gagner was a great PKer that he got PK minutes. It was because the GM who built the team was a moron, it was because the top two options for PK centers got hurt. When Belanger and Horcoff were in the lineup he didnt get PK time.
Ya, its almost as if Horcoff and Belanger were our shutdown centers or something... The fact is, he's the only one left on that list going into next year (assuming Smytty isn't back), and will most likely see a bigger role

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06-28-2013, 11:41 PM
  #873
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It doesn't matter why he was on the PK. What matters is that he was good when he was.

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06-28-2013, 11:43 PM
  #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Fifth highest SH TOI among forwards.

Ryan Smyth 118 min
Lennart Petrell 90 min
Eric Belanger 81 min
Shawn Horcoff 77 min
Sam Gagner 76 min

I also saw someone post that he was statistically the best PKer among forwards. I'd appreciate if someone could post those stats on the board since I'm afraid some posters are glossing over the very respectable work Gagner did on the PK last season.
You sure know how to crop a stat.

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06-28-2013, 11:46 PM
  #875
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post

Hall,Nuge,Ebs,Horc,Yak, PVR,Belanger, Brown, Jones,Jultz,Hemsky,Petry,Smid,Petrell,are faster .....He is faster then Fistric,Smyth,maybe, NSchultz,Potter,Peckman, that's it....Whitney would give him a go on one good leg.
I guess we were watching two different teams then. Speed is not an issue for Gagner and it doesn't cause him any problems like many of you would like to claim.

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