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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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06-28-2013, 11:04 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by duul View Post
I guess we were watching two different teams then. Speed is not an issue for Gagner and it doesn't cause him any problems like many of you would like to claim.
If he was faster his lack of strength and defensive awareness wouldnt be as big of an issue.

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06-28-2013, 11:13 PM
  #877
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That's simply false, you're making yourself look silly by saying things that simply aren't true. He was one of our fastest skaters last year. The only thing I can think of is that you might see him lagging behind Hall who is one of the fastest in the league, but he easily keeps up with the rest of our team except maybe Hemsky.
Not even close. Nabob is much closer to the truth than you are. Gagner is an average skater.

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06-28-2013, 11:19 PM
  #878
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Not even close. Nabob is much closer to the truth than you are. Gagner is an average skater.
True, but he certainly isn't a poor skater anymore

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06-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
You sure know how to crop a stat.
Not cropping anything. Total minutes is the rawest stat available.
I'm not claiming Gagner is a world beater on the PK. But I watched the games and he was decent. Why do we have to denigrate every accomplishment of this player. Its always a fluke or an outlier or something with the naysayers. Just admit it. Gagner was one of the main PKers last season. He did OK. Is that so hard to say?

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06-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not even close. Nabob is much closer to the truth than you are. Gagner is an average skater.
The season before the lockout, I remember seeing Gagner skating and he had gotten to lightning speed. I don't know what happened but that season he was absolutely flying until he had some sort of injury.

He is not slow anymore, and I think he can get back to where he was last year when he was flying around the ice. His speed is perfectly fine, who would you replace him with? The only way he's getting traded is if we upgrade at the same position.

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06-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #881
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Gagner at 5 mill with any term will make it impossible to keep all the young core around. One of them will have to go, can't have Yak at 6,Nuge 6, Hall 6, Eberle 6 Gagner 5 and Shultz at whatever he will get. Gagner is no where near a 5 mill player. If he gets that, it will be terrible. I'd trade him for a guy like Backlund who is making peanuts. An upgrade at this point is not commiting cap suicide.

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06-28-2013, 11:32 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by duul View Post
The season before the lockout, I remember seeing Gagner skating and he had gotten to lightning speed. I don't know what happened but that season he was absolutely flying until he had some sort of injury.

He is not slow anymore, and I think he can get back to where he was last year when he was flying around the ice. His speed is perfectly fine, who would you replace him with? The only way he's getting traded is if we upgrade at the same position.
Yes that is the ONLY way it can be done

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06-28-2013, 11:33 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by StanDarsh View Post
Gagner at 5 mill with any term will make it impossible to keep all the young core around. One of them will have to go, can't have Yak at 6,Nuge 6, Hall 6, Eberle 6 Gagner 5 and Shultz at whatever he will get. Gagner is no where near a 5 mill player.
And that's why MacT is hesitant regarding the NTC/NMC. Protecting the future.

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06-28-2013, 11:34 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Yes that is the ONLY way it can be done
Because he's going to get traded for a defenceman and our centre depth is going to be.

RNH (Injured)
Lander
Belanger
Smithson



Get a grip bud.

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06-28-2013, 11:34 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Not cropping anything. Total minutes is the rawest stat available.
I'm not claiming Gagner is a world beater on the PK. But I watched the games and he was decent. Why do we have to denigrate every accomplishment of this player. Its always a fluke or an outlier or something with the naysayers. Just admit it. Gagner was one of the main PKers last season. He did OK. Is that so hard to say?
YES and MACT should bend right over to his agents demands.

Gagner is asking for too much money and a NTC is a freaking joke! Is that so ahrd to say?

Go check out every player GA/60 while on the ice with SS and tell me what that says.

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06-28-2013, 11:41 PM
  #886
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And that's why MacT is hesitant regarding the NTC/NMC. Protecting the future.
At 5 mil with any sort of term he may earn a symbolic NTC/NMC by making himself untradeable.

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06-28-2013, 11:42 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Not cropping anything. Total minutes is the rawest stat available.
I'm not claiming Gagner is a world beater on the PK. But I watched the games and he was decent. Why do we have to denigrate every accomplishment of this player. Its always a fluke or an outlier or something with the naysayers. Just admit it. Gagner was one of the main PKers last season. He did OK. Is that so hard to say?
I don't have a problem with him covering the point on the pk. Ask him to cover a guy down low at even strength on the other hand...

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06-28-2013, 11:46 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Not cropping anything. Total minutes is the rawest stat available.
I'm not claiming Gagner is a world beater on the PK. But I watched the games and he was decent. Why do we have to denigrate every accomplishment of this player. Its always a fluke or an outlier or something with the naysayers. Just admit it. Gagner was one of the main PKers last season. He did OK. Is that so hard to say?
Try using PK min/game, or his actual place in the depth chart for PKers. He is not one of the main PKers. He did okay, but don't pretend like he's all of a sudden shutting down the opponent's PP1, because he's not. And I'm not denigrating anything. He is what he is, and his accomplishments are moderate, aside from the 8 point game. He's not a $5M/year guy, at all. Not even close.

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06-28-2013, 11:48 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
I don't have a problem with him covering the point on the pk. Ask him to cover a guy down low at even strength on the other hand...


UGH I can't get the video to play. I agree though he gets out muscled and out skated along the boards often.


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 06-29-2013 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Fixed video
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06-28-2013, 11:49 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by KlimasLoveChild View Post
I don't have a problem with him covering the point on the pk. Ask him to cover a guy down low at even strength on the other hand...
How many of our forwards are adept at that and where are the D, and why are they vacating the area of the net so often when this nature of thing is occurring?

One of the specific problems Gagner has is linemates that don't provide much puck support in own zone when we do momentarily possess it. Yak and Hemmer(and this for his career) haven't always been that adept at own zone play. You can't just look at the one player in isolation.

If the Oilers thought gagner was so horrible in ownzone would they spend so many years with him tutoring raw rookies and now giving him PK assignment?

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06-28-2013, 11:53 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by duul View Post
Because he's going to get traded for a defenceman and our centre depth is going to be.

RNH (Injured)
Lander
Belanger
Smithson



Get a grip bud.
Of course thats the plan trade Gagner for a Dman and then do nothing...yep thats the plan LOL

Tambo isnt the GM anymore.

LOwe still runs the show which means Horcoff Jr. will soon locked up long term, while being overpaid with a NTC.

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06-28-2013, 11:54 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by StanDarsh View Post
At 5 mil with any sort of term he may earn a symbolic NTC/NMC by making himself untradeable.
Shawn Gagner is Sam Horcoff.

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06-28-2013, 11:58 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Of course thats the plan trade Gagner for a Dman and then do nothing...yep thats the plan LOL

Tambo isnt the GM anymore.

LOwe still runs the show which means Horcoff Jr. will soon locked up long term, while being overpaid with a NTC.
If Gagner gets traded it will either be for an upgrade at C or we will have already upgraded to someone better than him before he's traded.

Surely you don't think MacT is that stupid to trade Gagner and leave our C depth like that without a guarantee for a better C, especially seeing as you are implying MacT knows what he's doing.

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06-29-2013, 12:00 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by StanDarsh View Post
At 5 mil with any sort of term he may earn a symbolic NTC/NMC by making himself untradeable.
Only depending on future performance. I would prefer to have a better option as well. But, if not then I am like many others in seeing him signed for say, 3 yrs at 5mil with options to move him. The future cap will make 5 mil seem like 4mil now. A crystal ball is obviously needed.

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06-29-2013, 12:03 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
YES and MACT should bend right over to his agents demands.

Gagner is asking for too much money and a NTC is a freaking joke! Is that so ahrd to say?

Go check out every player GA/60 while on the ice with SS and tell me what that says.
why do you constantly have to refer Gagner to SS or Snowpants?

does it actually kill you to type his name?

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06-29-2013, 12:04 AM
  #896
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Try using PK min/game, or his actual place in the depth chart for PKers. He is not one of the main PKers. He did okay, but don't pretend like he's all of a sudden shutting down the opponent's PP1, because he's not. And I'm not denigrating anything. He is what he is, and his accomplishments are moderate, aside from the 8 point game. He's not a $5M/year guy, at all. Not even close.
Why do that? Harpoon is right to use the total mins spent on pk in the year. One of the things Gagner offers is seldom being out of the lineup (even if injured) and providing the club with the optimal amount of GP he does.

If you use per game you specifically take that GP benefit out of the occasion. But for what reason?

PK benefit served to team is pk benefit served to team. Thats total minutes on that unit.

Anyway, people wanted a breakdown of Gagner shorthanded this season.

76mins on ice for 3GFON 4GAON, had 2 shorthanded pts, leading the team, and was practically even at PK for his duration of minutes. The best numbers of anybody on the club shorthanded and its not even close. He was -.078/60mins for 4 on 5 hockey. Shawn Horcoff was -4.72 Belanger was -6.91. ps in the exact same amount of pk time as Gagner Horc was scored against 6 times and with zero GFON in his pk minutes. Belanger of course had no GFON in his appreciable pk minutes and was scored against 9 times.

Doesn't matter, people won't like those numbers anyway, even though they are the numbers.


Last edited by Replacement: 06-29-2013 at 12:09 AM.
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06-29-2013, 12:06 AM
  #897
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Why do that? Harpoon is right to use the total mins spend on pk in the year. One of the things Gagner offers is seldom being out of the lineup (even if injured) and providing the club with the amount of GP he does.

If you use per game you specifically take that GP benefit out of the occasion. But for what reason?

PK benefit served to team is pk benefit served to team. Thats total minutes on that unit.

Anyway, people wanted a breakdown of Gagner shorthanded this season.

76mins on ice for 3GF 4GA, had 2 shorthanded pts, leading the team, and was practically even at PK for his duration of minutes. The best numbers of anybody on the club shorthanded and its not even close. He was -.078/60mins for 4 on 5 hockey. Shawn Horcoff ws -4.72 Belanger was -6.91.

Doesn't matter, people won't like those numbers anyway, even though they are the numbers.
Stats don't lie. Hmmmm?

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06-29-2013, 12:10 AM
  #898
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Stats don't lie. Hmmmm?
I told ya people won't like the numbers..

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06-29-2013, 12:16 AM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
why do you constantly have to refer Gagner to SS or Snowpants?

does it actually kill you to type his name?
I find my self always almost typing Gagne and I know the mob would jump me if I did that.

I would never call him snowpants.

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06-29-2013, 12:35 AM
  #900
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I told ya people won't like the numbers..
I'm a slow learner. But those numbers make sense, when you look back at the actual games we watched. Not spectacular. But who was?

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