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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Rank the 2013 Blackhawks among Cup Winners since the lockout

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Old
06-28-2013, 10:12 AM
  #151
ZapRowsdower13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer Time View Post
The Penguins did not beat the 2008 Wings team. They beat the 2008 Wings minus Datsyuk (also, Hossa was playing hurt and was not a major factor in 2009 - he would undergo surgery in the offseason).

There's also a regular season difference - the 2008 Wings were #1 in the standings pretty much all year, while the Penguins only barely made the playoffs (they were out of a playoff position when Bylsma was hired). Other than Pittsburgh and LA, all the other championship teams had a dominant regular season.

And finally, the Wings never trailed in any of their playoff series, and never went to a Game 7, while the Penguins had to come back from 2-0 down to win Game 7 twice. This isn't really a knock on the Pens, but when you're deciding which championship team was better, you have to nitpick - and I think a team that dug itself out of a hole just isn't as good as a team that never put itself in a hole to begin with.

If you look at the lineup, the Penguins on paper were nothing special other than at centre. Fleury in net did his job, but he simply isn't as good as guys like Thomas, Quick, or Ward. The defence didn't have an elite defenceman (Pronger, Lidstrom, Keith, etc.). Their best winger was ... Kunitz? Satan? Fedotenko? None of those are true 1st line players. I personally don't think having the 2 best centres in the league is enough to offset the relatively weaker players at other positions.

While it may look "weird" to see my list with the Wings at #1 and the Penguins at #8, keep in mind that it's a comparison of championship teams. Everyone on the list is already a winner - just some are more convincing winners than others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Fiend View Post
The 09 Wings team had motivation issues. Everyone was talking about the 'switch' they flipped for the playoffs. In the regular season they got blown out a couple times by Columbus 9-0. It took the Hossa signing just to get back to the finals.

The 08 Wings defense was >>>>>>>>> better than the 09 defense. The 09 offense was marginally better.

Edit: ALL credit to Pittsburgh that year though. They went through incredible adversity to get back to the finals.
Thanks guy. Ya didn't take it as a knock on the Pens, more just asking for 'how did you determine this?' than anything. In the end yes every team mentioned did win the Cup that year so at least you have that, even if you're not the best champion since the lost season.

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06-28-2013, 12:39 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Why shouldn't it [i.e.: Presidents Trophy/Regular Season success] count? All the Cup Champs were obviously great in the Playoffs hence why they won it all. If we're comparing these teams I don't think we should just ignore the regular season, it's part of the whole body of work.
Yeah... I think some of these contrasts are falling prey to a certain over-complication--

2008 Red Wings won Presidents Trophy & Stanley Cup

2013 Blackhawks won Presidents Trophy & Stanley Cup

All other teams that do not carry both credentials, please, take one step back.

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06-29-2013, 02:15 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownPhilly View Post
Yeah... I think some of these contrasts are falling prey to a certain over-complication--

2008 Red Wings won Presidents Trophy & Stanley Cup

2013 Blackhawks won Presidents Trophy & Stanley Cup

All other teams that do not carry both credentials, please, take one step back.
This year was far from a normal year though and I cant see 13 hawks beating 07 Ducks in a 7 game series that team was just to good but I think the #3 spot is interchangeable with the 13 hawks, 10 hawks and 12 kings

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06-29-2013, 02:30 AM
  #154
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07 Ducks finished that regular season in a 4-way tie for 6th in Goals Scored. Not saying that's bad or anything but the way they're spoken of as an unbeatable juggernaut I would have liked to have seem them do a little better (bear in mind 06-07 was a very high scoring year still fresh off the 04-05 lockout so don't just compare the total goals across teams but look at in context of league-wide scoring).

They were the best team that year and a great champion no doubt but they never got back to the Finals. Said it before, but I think they're over-glamorized because they're a proto-typical "built for the playoffs" type of team (defensive minded, physical, Canadian). Don't see why they're such an obvious #1/#2. They had probably the easiest Finals opponent (in my opinion Ottawa was a one line team without an elite Defense or Goaltender. Thought a bunch of their teams that didn't make the finals from around that era were better).

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06-29-2013, 02:49 AM
  #155
Psyfer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
07 Ducks finished that regular season in a 4-way tie for 6th in Goals Scored. Not saying that's bad or anything but the way they're spoken of as an unbeatable juggernaut I would have liked to have seem them do a little better (bear in mind 06-07 was a very high scoring year still fresh off the 04-05 lockout so don't just compare the total goals across teams but look at in context of league-wide scoring).

They were the best team that year and a great champion no doubt but they never got back to the Finals. Said it before, but I think they're over-glamorized because they're a proto-typical "built for the playoffs" type of team (defensive minded, physical, Canadian). Don't see why they're such an obvious #1/#2. They had probably the easiest Finals opponent (in my opinion Ottawa was a one line team without an elite Defense or Goaltender. Thought a bunch of their teams that didn't make the finals from around that era were better).
The East was very weak in general that year and they beat the Wings who were arguable the best team beside the Ducks that year in the WCF. That team had one of the best shut down lines in recent memory and 2 of the top 3 Defensemen in the league.

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Old
06-29-2013, 02:53 AM
  #156
WarriorofTime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyfer View Post
The East was very weak in general that year and they beat the Wings who were arguable the best team beside the Ducks that year in the WCF. That team had one of the best shut down lines in recent memory and 2 of the top 3 Defensemen in the league.
And obviously that was a major factor in why they were the best team in the league that year. My point though is I don't think they had quite enough offense to be considered the runaway #1 in this ranking of Champions (Perry and Getzlaf weren't really star players back then).

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