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The Rumors and Speculation Thread #8: Draft Day Edition

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Old
06-29-2013, 09:41 PM
  #201
healthyscratch
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So if we deal Grossmann, Coburn stays? That the consensus?

Thanks Kings fans for your posts/info.

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06-29-2013, 09:41 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
If we had two picks in the first round, depending on where they were, I'd be tempted to go for Fucale the top goalie with the lower one. If we got the 5th or 7th for Coburn then maybe try and trade in the 11th for Calgarys later pair of first rounders. Or maybe even the Blue Jackets #19 and 27...
If you get the 5th you take a forward assuming Jones is gone.

If you get the 7th you take Ristolainen or Nurse, whoever you covet more.

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06-29-2013, 09:43 PM
  #203
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I do like that trade. It would make the Flyers better IMO and we wouldn't be moving any big pieces. Although, I did like the idea of potentially getting a top 5 pick out of Coburn.

I guess we won't find out anything until tomorrow

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Old
06-29-2013, 09:44 PM
  #204
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Easson: So the Flames reportedly offered their 6th overall pick to the Flyers for Matt Read, Braydon Coburn and the 11th ... Ya, OK Feaster.
10:40pm - 29 Jun 13

I wonder if Holmgren's response was "Are you *** kidding me?" ...
10:43pm - 29 Jun 13



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06-29-2013, 09:45 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Easson: So the Flames reportedly offered their 6th overall pick to the Flyers for Matt Read, Braydon Coburn and the 11th ... Ya, OK Feaster.
10:40pm - 29 Jun 13

I wonder if Holmgren's response was "Are you *** kidding me?" ...
10:43pm - 29 Jun 13




Here. Take my #3 defenseman and my top 6 two-way winger and move me up 6 picks in the draft so I can miss out on the top 4 anyway.

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Old
06-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Easson: So the Flames reportedly offered their 6th overall pick to the Flyers for Matt Read, Braydon Coburn and the 11th ... Ya, OK Feaster.
10:40pm - 29 Jun 13

I wonder if Holmgren's response was "Are you *** kidding me?" ...
10:43pm - 29 Jun 13


Go home Feaster, you're drunk!

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06-29-2013, 09:50 PM
  #207
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Grossmann is cheap as hell and is a top 4 physical SDD. He's the best player in the deal in my opinion.

Cousins is also a pesky little guy who can rack up points; the comparison is a Briere that's constantly angry. He can go overboard, but he has skill. He won't be a top line forward but certainly he's a potential third liner.
.
grossman 3.5 an cousins .925 =4.425 million

martinez .7375 + clifford 875k = 1.6million ( last year) both need to be given minium 10% raises so at most that 1.8 million

4.425 -1.8 = 2.65 million in cap space and with la up against the cap no way this is a fair trade philly would have to either add a 2nd pick or take at least 1.4 million salary cap space.

I ll give you right now grossman might be the best player but not by much martinez is a cheaper player that can play top 4 mins.

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06-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
grossman 3.5 an cousins .925 =4.425 million

martinez .7375 + clifford 875k = 1.6million ( last year) both need to be given minium 10% raises so at most that 1.8 million

4.425 -1.8 = 2.65 million in cap space and with la up against the cap no way this is a fair trade philly would have to either add a 2nd pick or take at least 1.4 million salary cap space.

I ll give you right now grossman might be the best player but not by much martinez is a cheaper player that can play top 4 mins.
Can I get a little bit of a breakdown of Martinez' game? I honestly know very little about him.

That said, I'm not interested in taking salary cap back or giving you a second. 3.5m is not a lot to spend on a top 4 SDD.

We could theoretically retain salary, but 1.00m on a 3.50m cap hit seems awfully petty. Teams would theoretically retain salary for overpaid players. Grossmann is not overpaid. In fact, he's probably underpaid by about 0.50m.

If you want us to retain salary on top of this deal, I would suspect you would have to send something extra our way.

On top of that, I still think I'd rather have Muzzin.

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06-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  #209
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I'm not an expert on Clifford and Martinez, but that trade for Grossmann doesn't sound very appealing to me.

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06-29-2013, 09:54 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
king fan here one of the kings blogger posted this






matthew barry‏@bigmouthbarry4h
Grossman and Cousins for Clifford and A-mart? http://bigmouthbarry.com/grossman-an...rd-and-a-mart/


like 4 hours ago I don't know how true but it might be the same thing eklund is talking about
I want NO part of that. Grossmann was great for us last year.

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06-29-2013, 09:55 PM
  #211
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I'm not an expert on Clifford and Martinez, but that trade for Grossmann doesn't sound very appealing to me.
I like Grossmann much better than Coburn.
Grossmann is physical, Coburn is not.
That trade robs the Flyers... no way not interested.

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06-29-2013, 09:56 PM
  #212
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Someone answer this for me, but can a team reacquire (through trade) someone they bought out?

Say Briere goes to NYI for cheap, plays well, but Tavares is hurt all year and the team sucks. Can we pick him up for a playoff push at the TDL next season?

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06-29-2013, 09:57 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Synthetic View Post
Someone answer this for me, but can a team reacquire (through trade) someone they bought out?

Say Briere goes to NYI for cheap, plays well, but Tavares is hurt all year and the team sucks. Can we pick him up for a playoff push at the TDL next season?
I don't see any reason why not. Not sure if it was something strictly pointed out.

Then again, it would seem pretty a stupid loophole if they just let him sign elsewhere only to get traded back sometime during the summer.

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06-29-2013, 09:57 PM
  #214
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Someone answer this for me, but can a team reacquire (through trade) someone they bought out?

Say Briere goes to NYI for cheap, plays well, but Tavares is hurt all year and the team sucks. Can we pick him up for a playoff push at the TDL next season?
Im pretty sure it has to be one year from when he was bought out. I might be wrong though...

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06-29-2013, 09:59 PM
  #215
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Wouldn't have had to give up anything to move up to #7 if we had just lost the last game.

If we move up to #7, Nurse and Nichushkin are my targets. Too early for any other defenseman in my eyes. Nichuskin can play in the league next year, so that might be of interest to Homer who obviously is in win-now mode. Fills an immediate need and has as much upside as the big 3. I can't see anyway without hurting the present team the Flyers move up and keep #11.

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Old
06-29-2013, 10:03 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Go home Feaster, you're drunk!
It appears he may be....

"@Fox25Sports Bruins reportedly discussing deal w/ Flames that would send Seguin to CGY, & 6th draft choice + John Gaudreau to Boston." Wow
10:55pm - 29 Jun 13

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06-29-2013, 10:04 PM
  #217
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/alec_martinez/

His assessment is still pretty fair. Martinez has about a max potential as a #4 mobile defenseman. He is not overly physical, but has good defensive instincts and isn't too shy from board battles. His #1 asset is his skating, and he has been noted to have a shot that is harder than you'd expect, but he doesn't use it that often. One of his best assets is his hockey sense and vision (which is pretty much a requirement for any player Lombardi is interested in). He is good at moving the puck and reading the play. A play that shows this that I remember the most is this one:



It is also not like he never hits, but he does so rarely and when things are on the line. He finishes his checks, but you can see that he isn't very strong or physical. He goes for mostly stick battles.





Also a big goal of his this year:



A huge goal of his last year:



He knows when to go all in and attack. I can't think of many instances of him pinching and being wrong.

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Old
06-29-2013, 10:04 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
I like Grossmann much better than Coburn.
Grossmann is physical, Coburn is not.
That trade robs the Flyers... no way not interested.
Wait what? Grossman is a DEFENSIVE DEFENSEMAN. You don't like those.

Anyway. Martinez is the kind of guy this team needs on the third pairing. A cheap contract and he can move the puck. You can't have $3.5 and $4 million dollar cap hits sitting on your third pairing. It just doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't be thrilled about moving Cousins, but he's just a prospect at this point.

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06-29-2013, 10:06 PM
  #219
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Wouldn't have had to give up anything to move up to #7 if we had just lost the last game.
Come to think of it, why didn't we lose all 48 games?

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06-29-2013, 10:08 PM
  #220
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Wait what? Grossman is a DEFENSIVE DEFENSEMAN. You don't like those.

Anyway. Martinez is the kind of guy this team needs on the third pairing. A cheap contract and he can move the puck. You can't have $3.5 and $4 million dollar cap hits sitting on your third pairing. It just doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't be thrilled about moving Cousins, but he's just a prospect at this point.
But we don't have a real top pair guy that carries the load. All 6 d-men are depended on. We have to have depth on the blueline.

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06-29-2013, 10:08 PM
  #221
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Can I get a little bit of a breakdown of Martinez' game? I honestly know very little about him.

That said, I'm not interested in taking salary cap back or giving you a second. 3.5m is not a lot to spend on a top 4 SDD.

We could theoretically retain salary, but 1.00m on a 3.50m cap hit seems awfully petty. Teams would theoretically retain salary for overpaid players. Grossmann is not overpaid. In fact, he's probably underpaid by about 0.50m.

If you want us to retain salary on top of this deal, I would suspect you would have to send something extra our way.

On top of that, I still think I'd rather have Muzzin.
Well im not the best at doing a breakdown but ill give it a good try. Hes a puckmoving defenseman with the best rush instints on the team. He rarely gets caught pinching in the offensive end. In the stanley cup run he and greene we not score on in the playoffs He had a ruff season this year starting with catching a puck in the face in the strike layoff, He ended up playing alot of top 4 mins with mitchell and grenne out. He really looked good to me. The problem is he got hurt and missed a bit of time and when he got back he didnt get time to get his game back. He struggle and ended up in sutter doghouse and with the addition of regher never seemed to get out. The only reason hes available is the fact muzzin took his job. Personally I don't really want to see him go but we are rich in d coming.

we have alot of cap issues right now and need some of the salary reduced adding over 4 million to our cap would kill this deal. We still want to sign a few more players ( penner lewis ellerby i know im missing someone else_) and we would only have 4million to do so. cap space is needed or no deal to me

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06-29-2013, 10:12 PM
  #222
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But we don't have a real top pair guy that carries the load. All 6 d-men are depended on. We have to have depth on the blueline.
Kimmo-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Gus/Mez-Martinez/Grossmann

With or without the trade, we still have pretty good depth on the blueline.

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06-29-2013, 10:12 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/alec_martinez/

His assessment is still pretty fair. Martinez has about a max potential as a #4 mobile defenseman. He is not overly physical, but has good defensive instincts and isn't too shy from board battles. His #1 asset is his skating, and he has been noted to have a shot that is harder than you'd expect, but he doesn't use it that often. One of his best assets is his hockey sense and vision (which is pretty much a requirement for any player Lombardi is interested in). He is good at moving the puck and reading the play. A play that shows this that I remember the most is this one:
Alright. I think I like this.

One of the big issues with our defense not meshing with Lavi's system is that Schenn and Grossmann couldn't keep up with the play.

As long as Martinez won't be a lump in his own zone, I'm comfortable pairing him on the bottom and letting Gustafsson cover the rest. Yes, I have that much faith in Gus.

Clifford makes a huge contribution on Couturier's line. He isn't the top 6 winger Coots needs to blossom, but he'll open up space for him for sure.

Grossmann + Cousins

for

Clifford + Martinez

I'm sold.

We can retain a mil of Grossmann's salary if you want to pitch us your 2nd. Honestly though, as mean as it sounds LA's salary concerns are not our problem. You're not getting an overpaid player so it's not really something that makes sense.

Grossmann is a fantastic defenseman, and though he's not better than Coburn, some here liked him better. He's a hitter and a shut-blocker; a real warrior.

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06-29-2013, 10:14 PM
  #224
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Can I get a little bit of a breakdown of Martinez' game? I honestly know very little about him.
Imagine if Matt Read played defense-- and decrease his overall skill by a tier. Sort of good all-around, but nothing a supermodel would be washing a fancy car for. (I actually like him as a player--type of guy that helps you win a Cup.)

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06-29-2013, 10:16 PM
  #225
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Someone answer this for me, but can a team reacquire (through trade) someone they bought out?

Say Briere goes to NYI for cheap, plays well, but Tavares is hurt all year and the team sucks. Can we pick him up for a playoff push at the TDL next season?
From what I understand, a bought out player cannot join their previous team for at least one calendar year.

Under no circumstances.

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