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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part VI: Continued draft day discussion -- rumors, picks, etc...

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06-29-2013, 08:07 PM
  #276
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Experts like Morin for basically the same reason the Flyers took a long-shot on Lauridsen late in the draft some years back.

Now, Morin >> Lauridsen (entering the draft), but really...we should think a little more carefully before we play the absolute upside game with Morin.

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06-29-2013, 08:27 PM
  #277
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NHL network is doing a mock draft. They have us taking morin at 11. Ristolainen went to Columbus at 14. I really hope we wouldn't pick morin over Ristolainen.

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06-29-2013, 08:34 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Yep you nailed it. The only reason the experts like this kid is because he is tall. Your point pertaining to his time in the CHL?
It's nothing really against Morin, he might end up being a good player but he's too much of boom/bust type of player right now. We don't really have a prospect pool or any really promising defensemen in the system to take on that risk when there's other defenders who are further in their development and easier to project than Morin.

I wouldn't have a problem taking Morin if we acquired another first rounder and snagged him later in the first.

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06-29-2013, 08:58 PM
  #279
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Yep you nailed it. The only reason the experts like this kid is because he is tall. Your point pertaining to his time in the CHL?
I am sure you have been around long enough to know prospects get overhyped based on size and physicality almost every year. The point was to compare him to Giroux. Giroux was ranked low because he had never played in the CHL and no one knew what to expect from him. Scouts saw Morin last year and didn't like what they saw. They aren't comparable at all as risers.

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06-29-2013, 09:00 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
NHL network is doing a mock draft. They have us taking morin at 11. Ristolainen went to Columbus at 14. I really hope we wouldn't pick morin over Ristolainen.
I'm glad Holmgren is the GM and not Dave Read. I'll be pissed if they take him if Ristolainen is still available.

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06-29-2013, 09:02 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
NHL network is doing a mock draft. They have us taking morin at 11. Ristolainen went to Columbus at 14. I really hope we wouldn't pick morin over Ristolainen.
That would be awful, but it seems to me some mocks have Risto going to Columbus because they think it's fitting the Finnish GM would take the Finnish kid. I'd be surprised if he lasts that long.

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06-29-2013, 09:04 PM
  #282
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http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=40878

Looks like the Avs selected a guy with a 44 year deal. Guess he'll never play for them

On a serious note I'm so excited for tomorrow!

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06-29-2013, 10:42 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I am sure you have been around long enough to know prospects get overhyped based on size and physicality almost every year. The point was to compare him to Giroux. Giroux was ranked low because he had never played in the CHL and no one knew what to expect from him. Scouts saw Morin last year and didn't like what they saw. They aren't comparable at all as risers.
I don't get what last year has to do with what kind of NHL career the kid will have. I want a guy with the arrow pointing upward. I don't want a kid like Pulock who's gone from a top 5 pick last year to a guy that might go in the 20s. Remember Erik Karlsson? Remember Angelo Esposito?

You have to keep in mind the nuances of playing defense versus forward are exponentially greater when considering the jump from midget hockey to junior hockey. You also have to consider Morin was one of those guys that had a rapid growth spurt and was learning to get accustomed to his body. The kid's a very good skater for a kid his size, his hands are improving, and with his leverage, and as he gets stronger he's going to be able to pound the puck. I remember watching him in the prospect game and coming away impressed with his hands and movement skills. I figured he'd be a big lumbering guy. I was wrong.

He's high risk high reward. If there's one amateur league the Flyers know, its the Q.

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06-29-2013, 10:56 PM
  #284
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If we pick Morin over Ristolainen I might kill a man.

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06-29-2013, 10:59 PM
  #285
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If we pick Morin over Ristolainen I might kill a man.


God, I'm so ready for tomorrow.

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06-29-2013, 11:04 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
I don't get what last year has to do with what kind of NHL career the kid will have. I want a guy with the arrow pointing upward. I don't want a kid like Pulock who's gone from a top 5 pick last year to a guy that might go in the 20s. Remember Erik Karlsson? Remember Angelo Esposito?

You have to keep in mind the nuances of playing defense versus forward are exponentially greater when considering the jump from midget hockey to junior hockey. You also have to consider Morin was one of those guys that had a rapid growth spurt and was learning to get accustomed to his body. The kid's a very good skater for a kid his size, his hands are improving, and with his leverage, and as he gets stronger he's going to be able to pound the puck. I remember watching him in the prospect game and coming away impressed with his hands and movement skills. I figured he'd be a big lumbering guy. I was wrong.

He's high risk high reward. If there's one amateur league the Flyers know, its the Q.
You know who's arrow wasn't pointing upward when he was drafted? Sean Couturier.

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06-29-2013, 11:06 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
I don't get what last year has to do with what kind of NHL career the kid will have. I want a guy with the arrow pointing upward. I don't want a kid like Pulock who's gone from a top 5 pick last year to a guy that might go in the 20s. Remember Erik Karlsson? Remember Angelo Esposito?

You have to keep in mind the nuances of playing defense versus forward are exponentially greater when considering the jump from midget hockey to junior hockey. You also have to consider Morin was one of those guys that had a rapid growth spurt and was learning to get accustomed to his body. The kid's a very good skater for a kid his size, his hands are improving, and with his leverage, and as he gets stronger he's going to be able to pound the puck. I remember watching him in the prospect game and coming away impressed with his hands and movement skills. I figured he'd be a big lumbering guy. I was wrong.

He's high risk high reward. If there's one amateur league the Flyers know, its the Q.
I mentioned it to illustrate that his rise is completely different than Giroux's. Yeah, you can point out Karlsson and Esposito and I could point out Couturier and Scheifele. Or Fowler and McIlrath. Players fall and rise all of the time. It doesn't show you who is going to be better.

As for Pulock, his team went from 273 goals scored and 253 goals against in '11-12 to 189 goals scored and 284 goals against in '12-'13. They scored 84 fewer goals and let in 31 more. That obviously impacted his numbers. I'd still take him over Morin any day.

By the way Nolet is no longer the scout for the QMJHL.

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06-29-2013, 11:10 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
You know who's arrow wasn't pointing upward when he was drafted? Sean Couturier.
And you're point...?

I'm not going to bash Couturier, he's a nice player, he does his job. He was picked right about where he should have been. I just don't ever see him being a #1 center though and that was the fear during his draft year. In hindsight, I think I'd rather have Hamilton.

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06-29-2013, 11:11 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I mentioned it to illustrate that his rise is completely different than Giroux's. Yeah, you can point out Karlsson and Esposito and I could point out Couturier and Scheifele. Or Fowler and McIlrath. Players fall and rise all of the time. It doesn't show you who is going to be better.

As for Pulock, his team went from 273 goals scored and 253 goals against in '11-12 to 189 goals scored and 284 goals against in '12-'13. They scored 84 fewer goals and let in 31 more. That obviously impacted his numbers. I'd still take him over Morin any day.

By the way Nolet is no longer the scout for the QMJHL.
Much rather have Pulock, Ristolainen, or Morrissey than Morin.
Morin is a late 1st rounder at best, too much of a gamble, IMO.

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06-29-2013, 11:12 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
And you're point...?

I'm not going to bash Couturier, he's a nice player, he does his job. He was picked right about where he should have been. I just don't ever see him being a #1 center though and that was the fear during his draft year. In hindsight, I think I'd rather have Hamilton.
Gotta agree with you on that point.
Wanted Hamilton, got Couturier.
We have alot of centers, top defenseman not so many.

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06-29-2013, 11:14 PM
  #291
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Does anyone have a certain player they'd like to see the Flyers pick in the 2nd/3rd round?

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06-29-2013, 11:16 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by brewcrew8 View Post
Does anyone have a certain player they'd like to see the Flyers pick in the 2nd/3rd round?
Theodore in the 2nd and Subban in the 3rd.

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06-29-2013, 11:17 PM
  #293
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Does anyone have a certain player they'd like to see the Flyers pick in the 2nd/3rd round?
Lehkonen. He had a great year as a teen playing professionally in Finland, but he is small. Could be the steal of the 2nd.

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06-29-2013, 11:18 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=40878

Looks like the Avs selected a guy with a 44 year deal. Guess he'll never play for them

On a serious note I'm so excited for tomorrow!
"I wanted to score more, but the new team policy did not allow us to bring fans to the locker rooms after the games"

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06-29-2013, 11:21 PM
  #295
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This is what Kyle Woodlief had to say on him in his draft chat the other day:

Quote:
Lehkonen is one of the best pure, natural snipers in this draft. In a typical draft year, he'd probably be looked at as a late first round type of guy. But this is a really deep draft, so I can't see anyone pulling the trigger on him until mid-to-late second round. And part of that is definitely the concussion concern - he is quite small at 5-10/163 pounds, and really doesn't look like he's got much of a frame to fill out. Will he be able to hold up long term?

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06-29-2013, 11:25 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I mentioned it to illustrate that his rise is completely different than Giroux's. Yeah, you can point out Karlsson and Esposito and I could point out Couturier and Scheifele. Or Fowler and McIlrath. Players fall and rise all of the time. It doesn't show you who is going to be better.

As for Pulock, his team went from 273 goals scored and 253 goals against in '11-12 to 189 goals scored and 284 goals against in '12-'13. They scored 84 fewer goals and let in 31 more. That obviously impacted his numbers. I'd still take him over Morin any day.

By the way Nolet is no longer the scout for the QMJHL.
I'm not basing Pulock's fall on numbers. He obviously didn't play on as strong a team as he played on last year. Hell I'm advocating taking a guy that had 16 points this year. I've just never got the hype. He has a big shot. Everything else is average at best. I don't see top pairing potential. He's maxed out physically, there is little projection.

Morin could very well fall flat on his face and never make it beyond a #6 or #7 defenseman. That's the risk you take, but I'd rather that happen, knowing he could be a top pairing defenseman, than take a guy at #11 overall, in one of the deepest drafts in history, that has mid-pairing upside.

And whether Nolet is apart of the organization or not, they still keep good tabs on the league.

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06-29-2013, 11:25 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
This is what Kyle Woodlief had to say on him in his draft chat the other day:
Giroux once told me that Artturi Lehkonen is the purest shooter he has ever been able to play with.

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06-29-2013, 11:33 PM
  #298
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Does anyone have a certain player they'd like to see the Flyers pick in the 2nd/3rd round?
Guys I am hoping the Flyers consider in the 2nd (some of these guys may go late first).

Madison Bowey: Good skater, 6'1 194, a bit raw, good passer, decent-to-okay shot. Solid project.
Nic Petan: Martin St. Louis clone
Bigras: Jack of all trades. Has some PP ability, 2 way player, racks up +s.
Ryan Hartman: PPG player, not huge at 5'11 190, Shoots R, L Winger (Flyers need depth there)
Kerby Rychel: leader, 2way, aggressive, screams FLYER, can score, good skater, and very versatile
Jimmy Lodge: can score - great wrist shot - above avg skater (Carteresque?)
Vincent Dunn: Flyers fans would love him. Guy is a huge troll AND basically PPG player, hyper aggressive - lacks size
Steve Santini: two way D man
Heatherington: D-Dman -- Solid, Big, Sound player, if the u18's indicate anything, he'll be good
Keaton Thompson: not physical, but mobile and can defend, can move puck but not offensive -- pretty good in transition. Could be a solid backend (at minimum) defenseman that fits Lavi's system.

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06-29-2013, 11:34 PM
  #299
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If Kerby Rychel falls to us, and we don't pick him, I will be PISSED.

I know we need defense, but Rychel should go 1st round. Dude is a monster.

Seriously, if there is any shot in hell Rychel falls to us, we need to be all over that.

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06-29-2013, 11:34 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by brewcrew8 View Post
Does anyone have a certain player they'd like to see the Flyers pick in the 2nd/3rd round?
If I had to pick one? Madison Bowey. I could see him going right before #41, but Kelowna does a remarkable job developing NHL caliber defenseman. Whether it's their development program or just eye for talent, you cannot deny their success over the last decade.

I also think there could be a nice value out of one of the USNTDP guys, especially the defenseman. Those kids usually go underrated because they don't get the exposure the major junior kids do (Thinking of guys like Clendenning, Faulk, Merrill). The Flyers don't really draft from the US program however (actually now that I think about it, I don't think they ever have picked one beside JVR).

There will be some value in the second round no doubt. If the rumors are any indication, it seems like Homer realizes this. If we don't walk away with at least one WHL defenseman though I will be disappointed though.

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