HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk IV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-29-2013, 01:19 PM
  #551
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
I'm glad they did a review last season, wish it were earlier.

The article makes it sound like Crawford is fully in charge now, the role of head scout minus the title still held by Delorme. The previous article about this restructuring made it seem like Crawford was just helping out and inputting his ideas.

Happy they are emphasizing these three areas and bulking up in Ontario, which i've long felt has the best development leagues.
The BCHL is a better league than the OJHL and the WHL produces as many if not more players than the OHL.

I agree in a sense, that the OHL produces players at the higher end, generally.

From Ontario West to BC you probably are looking at 3/4 of all NHL players. It only makes sense to beef up these areas.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 01:24 PM
  #552
Agent007
Registered User
 
Agent007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
I'm glad they did a review last season, wish it were earlier.

The article makes it sound like Crawford is fully in charge now, the role of head scout minus the title still held by Delorme. The previous article about this restructuring made it seem like Crawford was just helping out and inputting his ideas.

Happy they are emphasizing these three areas and bulking up in Ontario, which i've long felt has the best development leagues.
But they still apparently believe their best scout is Delorme

Agent007 is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 01:27 PM
  #553
windflare
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,256
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
From Ontario West to BC you probably are looking at 3/4 of all NHL players. It only makes sense to beef up these areas.
I'd say half, unless you count NCAA-tracked guys from Tier 2 junior leagues. But yes. About 1/2 from Ontario westwards, 1/4 from NCAA/Q, and 1/4 Europe/Misc.

But as said, good to see systematic changes - and that's the word that Gilman uses, as Gillis and him both understand systems thinking. It's hard to change present systems, and systems take time to change. Very, very rarely is it the fault of one person, though people usually like to place blame on one or two guys, as it's much easier to scapegoat than it is to think systematically.

windflare is online now  
Old
06-29-2013, 01:31 PM
  #554
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by windflare View Post
I'd say half, unless you count NCAA-tracked guys from Tier 2 junior leagues. But yes. About 1/2 from Ontario westwards, 1/4 from NCAA/Q, and 1/4 Europe/Misc.

But as said, good to see systematic changes - and that's the word that Gilman uses, as Gillis and him both understand systems thinking. It's hard to change present systems, and systems take time to change. Very, very rarely is it the fault of one person, though people usually like to place blame on one or two guys, as it's much easier to scapegoat than it is to think systematically.
Actually changed my mind on what I wanted to say.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 02:01 PM
  #555
Taco Fingerhat
Registered User
 
Taco Fingerhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,925
vCash: 500
Has anyone been following the 'Prospect Comparables' articles Coppernblue.com has been puttting out? I found it a very interesting statistical analysis of the top 30 prospects.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/27...ft-comparables

The writer did a fantastic job breaking down the first 10-15 draft picks, and then I felt got a little lazy with his stats towards the end, but overall its an eye opening read.

You can scroll to the bottom of the link to see the full list.

Taco Fingerhat is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 02:17 PM
  #556
thefeebster
Registered User
 
thefeebster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 5,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The BCHL is a better league than the OJHL and the WHL produces as many if not more players than the OHL.

I agree in a sense, that the OHL produces players at the higher end, generally.

From Ontario West to BC you probably are looking at 3/4 of all NHL players. It only makes sense to beef up these areas.
I think the OHL wins by quality and numbers. Well the first part is in my opinion. I know i've read something recent that proves the 2nd part, can't find it.

There does not seem to be anything that sorts by drafted league, but you can sort by birth provinces. And its close. http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_CanadianPlayers.php

Based on # of Canadian NHL players in the 2012-2013 season:
1 Ontario 41.9%
2 Quebec 12.4%
3 Alberta 13.6%
4 British Columbia 10.7%
5 Saskatchewan 9.7%
6 Manitoba 6.8%

We know the west pulls from the bottom 4 provinces, giving the West a combined total of 40.8%.

But obviously since it only samples players from Canada, it is skewed because of the american recruits that can play in both the WHL and OHL are not included.

thefeebster is online now  
Old
06-29-2013, 02:27 PM
  #557
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
I think the OHL wins by quality and numbers. Well the first part is in my opinion. I know i've read something recent that proves the 2nd part, can't find it.

There does not seem to be anything that sorts by drafted league, but you can sort by birth provinces. And its close. http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_CanadianPlayers.php

Based on # of Canadian NHL players in the 2012-2013 season:
1 Ontario 41.9%
2 Quebec 12.4%
3 Alberta 13.6%
4 British Columbia 10.7%
5 Saskatchewan 9.7%
6 Manitoba 6.8%

We know the west pulls from the bottom 4 provinces, giving the West a combined total of 40.8%.

But obviously since it only samples players from Canada, it is skewed because of the american recruits that can play in both the WHL and OHL are not included.
I guess it depends how far back we look.

The WHL and OHL are the biggest contributors of North American talent into the NHL. I'd say they are close anyways.

Quality, I agree, probably goes to Ontario...but Ontario has more people than the West combined, so it should produce more. But for every Eric Staal, there is usually a Ryan Getzlaf.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 10:14 PM
  #558
Lucbourdon
Kefka cheers for Van
 
Lucbourdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,594
vCash: 500
Sean monahan looks so much like crosby when he was young, even with the way he talks.

Kinda freaky.



Skip to 1:00

Lucbourdon is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 10:23 PM
  #559
thefeebster
Registered User
 
thefeebster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 5,599
vCash: 500
I was going to say that its so quiet in here on what is Christmas Eve! The Schneider talk and the possibility of a couple of big moves probably sucked the life out of the draft.

I'm watching videos on the leafs' site as well. I am about half way, but i can see some reasons why Adam Erne did not interview well, just based off my first impression.

EDIT: I do see the Crosby resemblance.


Last edited by thefeebster: 06-29-2013 at 10:31 PM.
thefeebster is online now  
Old
06-29-2013, 10:25 PM
  #560
Nucker101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
Has anyone been following the 'Prospect Comparables' articles Coppernblue.com has been puttting out? I found it a very interesting statistical analysis of the top 30 prospects.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/27...ft-comparables

The writer did a fantastic job breaking down the first 10-15 draft picks, and then I felt got a little lazy with his stats towards the end, but overall its an eye opening read.

You can scroll to the bottom of the link to see the full list.

Thanks for the link, I wish there were more prospect evaluation stuff out there that used things like historic comparables.

Nucker101 is online now  
Old
06-29-2013, 10:32 PM
  #561
Nuckles
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Sidebar
 
Nuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Burger King bathroom
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,140
vCash: 50

__________________

Richer's Ghost made my avatar
Nuckles is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 10:45 PM
  #562
canuck4life16
Shinkaruk+Henrik=!!!
 
canuck4life16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancity
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,135
vCash: 419
is Eric Crawford one of better scouts? is he reliable and which pick was his responsibility?

canuck4life16 is online now  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:15 PM
  #563
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nucker101 View Post
Thanks for the link, I wish there were more prospect evaluation stuff out there that used things like historic comparables.
It's interesting stuff to be sure but personally I'm not a fan of comparables as the game has changed dramatically over time (19191 comp) and it doesn't take into account team strength, roles and coaching philosophy.

Comparables can create false hopes and expectations.

Hardyvan123 is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:19 PM
  #564
Nucker101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
It's interesting stuff to be sure but personally I'm not a fan of comparables as the game has changed dramatically over time (19191 comp) and it doesn't take into account team strength, roles and coaching philosophy.

Comparables can create false hopes and expectations.

That's true, but it does provide some perspective and a different/fresh point of view instead of the usual typical hockey clichés we see on every site/blog and draft preview show when pretty much everyone is looking at things as a best case scenario and with way too much of a group consensus. Even guys like Button who go against the grain don't provide numbers or stats to back themselves up so it gets kind of annoying to me.

Nucker101 is online now  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:23 PM
  #565
biturbo19
Registered User
 
biturbo19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nucker101 View Post
That's true, but it does provide some perspective and a different/fresh point of view instead of the usual typical hockey clichés we see on every site/blog and draft preview show when pretty much everyone is looking at things as a best case scenario and with way too much of a group consensus. Even guys like Button who go against the grain don't provide numbers or stats to back themselves up so it gets kind of annoying to me.
Maybe that's because the 'numbers and stats' are already out there, plain as day to look at. And maybe it's because at the end of the day, when you're talking about draft prospects in particular, those numbers and stats are so far from telling the whole story, that you have to fall back on 'cliches' like good old fashioned, watching games and 'projecting players'.

biturbo19 is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:26 PM
  #566
Vankiller Whale
All hail WMD
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,960
vCash: 400
With the 7th overall, who would you take?

Mackinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Nichushkin
Lindholm
Monahan

Whichever of those 7 are left I'd be happy with.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:28 PM
  #567
Mason10
Bacon
 
Mason10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
With the 7th overall, who would you take?

Mackinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Nichushkin
Lindholm
Monahan

Whichever of those 7 are left I'd be happy with.
Will MG take Nichushkin?

Mason10 is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:30 PM
  #568
StevenToddIves
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
THW Two-Round Mock: Canucks get Mueller

I just published a two-round mock at thehockeywriters: http://thehockeywriters.com/ives-moc...hl-mock-draft/

I was wondering what the Canucks faithful thought about the Mueller pick. Would you rather Gillis nab a forward? Do you like Mueller?

StevenToddIves is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:36 PM
  #569
Eddy Punch Clock
Gold Jerry!!!
 
Eddy Punch Clock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chillbillyville
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,122
vCash: 500
Mueller?

Mueller?

...anyone?

Eddy Punch Clock is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:41 PM
  #570
biturbo19
Registered User
 
biturbo19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,390
vCash: 500
Why in the ****?

Micro Mueller?


i don't even understand. At all...

biturbo19 is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:42 PM
  #571
Trelane
Registered User
 
Trelane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salusa Secundus
Posts: 623
vCash: 500
So what's likely to be on the board come 7th? With Mac, Drouin, Jones, Barkov and Nichushkin being clear cut top 5, Calgary/Weisbrod being erratic, and Nurse maybe getting picked early, we could be talking Monahan v Lindholm.

A lot of hot air out there, but I enjoy the entertainment just the same.

T minus 15 hours. Unless your team is going deep this is the best day of the year for hockey junkies partout.

MG would take NIChushkin last.


Last edited by Trelane: 06-29-2013 at 11:47 PM.
Trelane is offline  
Old
06-29-2013, 11:43 PM
  #572
Hansen 36
BASED JIM BENNING
 
Hansen 36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,319
vCash: 500
Mirco Mueller looks like a solid prospect. Not exactly at the top of my list around or spot but he had one of the best, if not the best, ratings on that machine that made Hampus Lindholm jump around the combine last year.

Hansen 36 is online now  
Old
06-30-2013, 12:04 AM
  #573
Nucker101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
Maybe that's because the 'numbers and stats' are already out there, plain as day to look at. And maybe it's because at the end of the day, when you're talking about draft prospects in particular, those numbers and stats are so far from telling the whole story, that you have to fall back on 'cliches' like good old fashioned, watching games and 'projecting players'.
Not really. I have yet to see any other size that uses adjusted PPG and goals per game as a stat and compares prospects to past prospects that had similar numbers, draft pedigrees in the same leagues. Sure there are variables that can't be measured since junior leagues don't have sites like BehindTheNet.ca to keep track of possession numbers, and you have to factor in quality of linemates, zone usage, ice time, roles, but again I think a site/analysis like the one linked is a nice resource and provides a different perspective on things.

Nucker101 is online now  
Old
06-30-2013, 12:06 AM
  #574
PRNuck
Registered User
 
PRNuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenToddIves View Post
I just published a two-round mock at thehockeywriters: http://thehockeywriters.com/ives-moc...hl-mock-draft/

I was wondering what the Canucks faithful thought about the Mueller pick. Would you rather Gillis nab a forward? Do you like Mueller?
Not a fan. Based on who's left at that pick in your mock, I'd personally prefer Compher or Erne.

PRNuck is offline  
Old
06-30-2013, 12:17 AM
  #575
Nathan MacKinnon
Believe in BLUE
 
Nathan MacKinnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenToddIves View Post
I just published a two-round mock at thehockeywriters: http://thehockeywriters.com/ives-moc...hl-mock-draft/

I was wondering what the Canucks faithful thought about the Mueller pick. Would you rather Gillis nab a forward? Do you like Mueller?
Not to happy with the Mirco Mueller pick to be honest. I'd rather see us pick up JT Compher or Robert Hagg

Nathan MacKinnon is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.