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"Bergevin has been sniffing around to see what he can get for Plekanec"

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Old
06-30-2013, 04:30 AM
  #401
GRECOHAB
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Plekanec (MTL) for Bolland+Leddy+McNeil (CHI)

This is a nice trade value wise, but it suits MTL better if we unload Desharnais and we sign Lecavalier in his place. Maybe Desharnais+Kristo to CGY for the 22nd pick?. Then our line up would look something like this:

Pacioretty-Lecavalier-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Galtchenuyk
Prust-Bolland-Gionta
Moen-Dumont-White

Subban-Leddy
Gorges-Tinordi
Markov-Emelin

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06-30-2013, 06:31 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Trade Plekanec for Stewart and the second deal that keeps getting tossed around here.

Than trade for Bolland. Offer the newly acquired second and a prospect that both sides find agreeable. Bolland is a winner, is a right handed centerman and has connections with Bergevin. Bolland replaces Plekanec's minutes and role. Stewart adds size, toughness and scoring.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Stewart
Bourque - Bolland - Gionta
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Prust - White - Moen
If we trade Plekanec and keep DD as our #1 center, forget next season. See you UFA '14.

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06-30-2013, 06:31 AM
  #403
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Btw calling a player a 'top 20 player' is about as ridiculous as it gets

Once you get past a consensus 'top 5'...it gets pretty subjective.

It's like saying Mark Sanchez is a top 30 QB in the NFL

This fear that so many have of trading Plekanec because we'll lose the privilege of our mediocrity is quite laughable

I hope our GM isn't as short sighted

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06-30-2013, 06:36 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Btw calling a player a 'top 20 player' is about as ridiculous as it gets

Once you get past a consensus 'top 5'...it gets pretty subjective.

It's like saying Mark Sanchez is a top 30 QB in the NFL

This fear that so many have of trading Plekanec because we'll lose the privilege of our mediocrity is quite laughable

I hope our GM isn't as short sighted
it's actually the contrary.

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06-30-2013, 06:39 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
If we trade Plekanec and keep DD as our #1 center
The last time we played DD as a number 1 center we ended up with Alex Galchenyuk.

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06-30-2013, 06:43 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
it's actually the contrary.
Please elaborate...

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06-30-2013, 06:43 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The last time we played DD as a number 1 center we ended up with Alex Galchenyuk.
Oh... so THATS why they kept Desharnais: to make sure we tank enough to have a real good draft pick next year while appeasing the French clientele by playing a guy born in quebec!! I get it now!!


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06-30-2013, 06:48 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The last time we played DD as a number 1 center we ended up with Alex Galchenyuk.
Going by icetime...Plekanec has been the Habs #1 center since Koivu left pretty much

No other player plays in more situations then Plekanec

Desharnais has never been the Habs #1 center...even the year the Habs finishe last, Plekanec was the #1 guy

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06-30-2013, 07:16 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Please elaborate...
simple, we have no one to replace Plekanec yet, trading him might solve some of the issues we have elsewhere but would create a hole big enough at C to guarantee (so to speak) we're mediocre for a few more years...

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06-30-2013, 07:43 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
No way does Bolland replace Plekanec, and we won't be getting anyone back in a deal for him that could. Bolland would be an ideal #3 center though; RH shot, aggressive, takes a lot of draws (though not great at them) and strong defensively, being able to shadow top end forwards. I do like to see the GM gauging the market and constantly trying to improve the team.

IF Plekanec was to be traded what are the most realistic teams interested and what would you want back from them to make the deal? I see teams like the Blues, Hawks, Ducks, Lightning, Oilers, Jets, etc. The list can be quite big.
No way trade Plekanec unless have a deal with Vinny and get huge return for Pleks. Eller is coming off major concussion and then has only played 40 NHL games at high level.

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06-30-2013, 08:24 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
simple, we have no one to replace Plekanec yet, trading him might solve some of the issues we have elsewhere but would create a hole big enough at C to guarantee (so to speak) we're mediocre for a few more years...
Why do we have to replace Plekanec? I don't understand this logic...

The idea that we NEED to replace Plekanec would come from the thought that he's essential and indispensable to this teams success

But as we are all too well aware...this team hasn't had any success

This isn't to say that he's solely responsible...but to say he NEEDS to be replaced if he's ever moved, doesn't really make sense to me

Yes the Habs would be a different team without Plekanec, maybe an inferior one, maybe a superior one...maybe it remains the same.

Who knows, that depends on the deal...

Truth is...Plekanec is a valuable player, both to the Habs and to perspective teams

It would be foolish to hang onto him at all costs for the sake of fearing what we would be without him...when in fact we should be fearing what we currently are

A team constantly stuck in the same cycle of mediocrity

There may be other avenues to change this...

I don't personally believe trading David Desharnais will accomplish this, nor do I believe moving someone like Subban or Galchenyuk makes much sense either as IMO, those 2 players are much more 'irreplaceable' then Plekanec would be


Last edited by 417: 06-30-2013 at 08:33 AM.
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Old
06-30-2013, 09:08 AM
  #412
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Garrioch is a joke. He throws a stupid Habs rumour out there every once in a while to juice his page views.

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06-30-2013, 09:14 AM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Why do we have to replace Plekanec? I don't understand this logic...

The idea that we NEED to replace Plekanec would come from the thought that he's essential and indispensable to this teams success

But as we are all too well aware...this team hasn't had any success

This isn't to say that he's solely responsible...but to say he NEEDS to be replaced if he's ever moved, doesn't really make sense to me

Yes the Habs would be a different team without Plekanec, maybe an inferior one, maybe a superior one...maybe it remains the same.

Who knows, that depends on the deal...

Truth is...Plekanec is a valuable player, both to the Habs and to perspective teams

It would be foolish to hang onto him at all costs for the sake of fearing what we would be without him...when in fact we should be fearing what we currently are

A team constantly stuck in the same cycle of mediocrity

There may be other avenues to change this...

I don't personally believe trading David Desharnais will accomplish this, nor do I believe moving someone like Subban or Galchenyuk makes much sense either as IMO, those 2 players are much more 'irreplaceable' then Plekanec would be

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06-30-2013, 09:30 AM
  #414
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This whole uproar over Plekanec's value to the team isn't without reminding me of the same situation back when Koivu was in Montreal. They are good players, no doubt, but because they are the team's number one center, people see them as bigger than they really are, thinking that they are irreplaceable. True that you don't want to create a hole without at least replacing one aspect of their game (for example, offense), but it certainly doesn't mean that they're untouchable or that the team should weigh the pros and cons of trading them.

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06-30-2013, 09:56 AM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
This whole uproar over Plekanec's value to the team isn't without reminding me of the same situation back when Koivu was in Montreal. They are good players, no doubt, but because they are the team's number one center, people see them as bigger than they really are, thinking that they are irreplaceable. True that you don't want to create a hole without at least replacing one aspect of their game (for example, offense), but it certainly doesn't mean that they're untouchable or that the team should weigh the pros and cons of trading them.
To be successful, you have to build on your strengths, not simply make changes for the sake of change. That doesn't make Plekanec "untouchable" (and it didn't make Koivu untouchable then), it makes him one of the worst places to look first if trying to improve this team via trade. Period.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with listening to what other GMs would offer, to get a better idea of his value around the league, as Bergevin is obviously doing. If some other team is pressured into one of those "make changes for the sake of change" positions, they just might "overpay" to get him.

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06-30-2013, 10:01 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
To be successful, you have to build on your strengths, not simply make changes for the sake of change. That doesn't make Plekanec "untouchable" (and it didn't make Koivu untouchable then), it makes him one of the worst places to look first if trying to improve this team via trade. Period.
Yes and no. We live in a cap world. If you were, for example, going to sign a UFA to replace Plekanec's offense, and trade/sign a center who can kill penalties and who is better on face-offs, your team ultimately improves. Or if you sign a UFA center to replace his offense, then trade Plekanec for a good physical stay at home d-man who plays a lot of minutes, you still improve your team. Each situation is unique and you have to look at them one by one.

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06-30-2013, 10:06 AM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
To be successful, you have to build on your strengths, not simply make changes for the sake of change. That doesn't make Plekanec "untouchable" (and it didn't make Koivu untouchable then), it makes him one of the worst places to look first if trying to improve this team via trade. Period.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with listening to what other GMs would offer, to get a better idea of his value around the league, as Bergevin is obviously doing. If some other team is pressured into one of those "make changes for the sake of change" positions, they just might "overpay" to get him.
There needs to be a way to summon either you or Talk to Goalposts to respond every time these topics get crazy. Probably the best response so far here.

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06-30-2013, 10:07 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Yes and no. We live in a cap world. If you were, for example, going to sign a UFA to replace Plekanec's offense, and trade/sign a center who can kill penalties and who is better on face-offs, your team ultimately improves. Or if you sign a UFA center to replace his offense, then trade Plekanec for a good physical stay at home d-man who plays a lot of minutes, you still improve your team. Each situation is unique and you have to look at them one by one.
Yeah... sure... find two players that actually do those things, and get them for less than a combined $5 million. Good luck.

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06-30-2013, 10:11 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Yeah... sure... find two players that actually do those things, and get them for less than a combined $5 million. Good luck.
Why do they have to make less than $5M? They're two players so they take two roster spots (if I'm not mistaken). Habs are $9M under the cap...

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06-30-2013, 10:14 AM
  #420
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Why do they have to make less than $5M? They're two players so they take two roster spots (if I'm not mistaken). Habs are $9M under the cap...
Because you're trying to sell me on the fact that you're not simply making changes for the sake of changes. A cap savings, as weak of a selling point as it is, would still at least be a selling point.

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06-30-2013, 10:16 AM
  #421
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I would try to work with st louis with a trade involving Perron or Stewart coming our way. Not sure if we should add or if St louis should add though

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06-30-2013, 10:25 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Because you're trying to sell me on the fact that you're not simply making changes for the sake of changes. A cap savings, as weak of a selling point as it is, would still at least be a selling point.
You're completely missing my point. That's okay, never mind.

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06-30-2013, 10:43 AM
  #423
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You're completely missing my point. That's okay, never mind.
No, not really. Just trying to point out to you that, even if you somehow successfully replace every element that Plekanec brings to the team through multiple additions, all you've done is water down the depth chart from the top down with a bunch of guys who are only capable of compensating in the aggregate by filling lesser and more specific roles. So if you can't at least do that with a cap savings, why even bother "building" that kind of inflexibility into the lineup?

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06-30-2013, 10:55 AM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No, not really. Just trying to point out to you that, even if you somehow successfully replace every element that Plekanec brings to the team through multiple additions, all you've done is water down the depth chart from the top down with a bunch of guys who are only capable of compensating in the aggregate by filling lesser and more specific roles. So if you can't at least do that with a cap savings, why even bother "building" that kind of inflexibility into the lineup?
What more inflexible? 2 3M players, both of which brings differents things to the team. Or a 5M player that brings both qualities and a 1M player you cant put on the ice for more than 10 minutes a game?

I'd say it's a hell of a lot more easier to replaced a player in the 1st option. We keep saying Plekanec is essential, but he shouldnt be in a good depth organization.

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06-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #425
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The only untouchable on this team is Subban.

Everyone else is tradeable (includes Price and Patches).

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