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GDT: Nashville Predators @ New Jersey Devils 10-19-06 6:30pm

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Old
10-19-2006, 10:24 PM
  #51
barrytrotzsneck
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for anyone who watched the game or even has a recording of it...

if you saw a white preds jersey and white preds hat, right behind the devils bench(right behind brodeur, actually) sitting next to a guy in a red hat and mustard third...


that was me apparently, a few people spotted me on the broadcast and let me knokw, which I think is cool. I'll watch after the Mets game.

I'll post my thoughts on the game then, as well.

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10-19-2006, 10:27 PM
  #52
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gah, and no, i wasn't making out with anyone...that was my brother!

though, we did meet two pleasant young ladies in matching sullivan jersies...


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10-20-2006, 02:45 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
gah, and no, i wasn't making out with anyone...that was my brother!

though, we did meet two pleasant young ladies in matching sullivan jersies...



just because its your brother doesn't make it any better.

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10-20-2006, 07:33 AM
  #54
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you made out with your brother?



I kid, I kid.




Well, we really half-@$$ed that last powerplay and the last 10 minutes fo the game, and it almost cost us......BUT IT DIDNT WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!

I dont have much to say, a Preds win and a Wings loss made for a great night.

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10-20-2006, 08:23 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post


I don't believe in jinxing. I'll be the first one to utter the word shutout in the second period of a 3-0 game. Clearly, we are one in the same.
My wife tried to get me to change the channel with about 5 minutes to go I told her not to jinx the team it was only a 2 goal lead. When Jersey tied it, she sat down and watched the rest of it with me. Then at the end she said "I told you we were gonna win"

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10-20-2006, 08:36 AM
  #56
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- Atmosphere was about as good as I've seen it for a Devils game. I've been to a good many, and usually it's fairly dead. Maybe it was sitting down low that made the difference.

- As mentioned, quite a few Preds fans, there. There's an odd camraderie when you're in an "enemy" building. You get hellos\brief conversations from anyone wearing a Preds jersey.

-outside those first two PP's(there weren't many, but the following point remains), the PP continues to look bad. That last PP in the third was about as bad as its looked all year.

-the PK continues to impress. 4 lengthy 5 on 3s killed off in two games.

- The Nichol goal happened without anyone even realizing it in the arena. I was at the other end in the second period, so I couldn't see a thing down at that end, and didn't realize a goal had been scored until they lined up at center.

- Dumont is bigger than I realized, and while he's not racking up points, his presence is notable. He's another possession guy, and I have a feeling he's going to break out in the near future if a good line is found for him.

- Up until the last 10 or so minutes of the second, the Preds simply dominated play. We were grinding them out down low in their end, and the back-to-back seemed to affect them more than us.

- From that point on, and especially in the third, it went the other way. Our neutral zone coverage went from aggressive\attack oriented to a more passive, you-make-the-first-move scheme. It nearly did us in. Even before the Devils picked up their two late goals, they were getting chance after chance. It's been said before, but to succeed, this team has to stay aggressive. We have some great defensive forwards with ability to turn the play back the other way, but we have to attack the puck to make it happen.

-Gionta is scary every time he has the puck in the offensive end. In that last little rush, everyone in the arena knew the game was about to be tied.

-Mase is now 8\8 in shootouts. That's pretty incredible. Parise beat him, but fortunately hit the post.

-Erat is also perfect in shootouts, and I'd like to see our running shootout as Sullivan-Kariya-Erat...with Legwand and Dumont as the next in line. Notice I'm not mentioning Marek Zidlicky

-saw a guy wearing a Devils Arnott jersey in the first intermission, and I informed him that he had the right name, but wrong jersey, and that he was responsible for allowing the Preds to get the first goal.

All in all, a good time. Sad to realize that I won't get to see the Preds live again for some time.

By the way..in the span of 2 games, we went from last to first in the division. Now Chicago just needs to slow down a little bit and let us get some distance. There's two points separating most of the teams in the Western Conference.

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10-20-2006, 09:18 AM
  #57
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yes I definetly liking the standings this morning, now if Cbus can just lose those games in hand, we will be in a good position.

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10-20-2006, 10:54 AM
  #58
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One thing I will question about the game is Trotz line combos.. Tootoo with Kariya and Arnott.. come on. Some of the lines are mind boggling. I feel as if we are not using Dumont to his potential.

Its easy to give Trotz the benefit of the doubt because we are winning, but I would like to see us get some chemistry with our lines. Juggeling the lines every two minutes does not achieve that.

For some reason, I see Vancouver bringing us back down to earth. And I better not see Radulov playing with Fiddler or Smithson.

Edit: I forgot to put in that some of this has to do with our injuries as well. But injuries or no injuries, Trotz isn't a stranger to throwing out crazy combos

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10-20-2006, 10:59 AM
  #59
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I like our team, I truly do, and I am pleased with management, etc. However, someone needs to step in and tell Trotz that Jerred Smithson and Jordin Tootoo should not be your first and second line right wingers when you have Scott Hartnell, Martin Erat, JP Dumont, and Scottie Upshall all who are better suited for the spot. Morever, putting Legwand with the scrubs, and Fiddler with the true scoring wings is borderline ridiculous when he has been up until last night our most creative forward. I'm still miffed at Tootoo on the first line. It simply does not make sense. He isn't on the same page as Arnott or Kariya....Erat is a much better puck handler and fights for the puck just as much as Tootoo in the corners.....simply a bad decision that has carried on for two games now.

I thought we played well against NJ on the road. We got lucky that we didn't draw Brodeur, but I still feel as if we would have won this game. All three Devil goals were off some terrific passes/shots....not much many people could do with them.

Nichol has earned a spot in the lineup, but I hate to think that its Upshall or Nichol that gets that "spot"....

I wish, for once, that we could have some consistency in our scoring lines. I understand bouncing Dumont and Sullivan around until they find the center/winger that fits them best, but what is going on right now is just silly. 1-3 shifts is about all you can hope for with any trio of forwards, and this is usually broken up by several different combinations throughout the game. Chemistry will never truly develop between a line if it isn't kept together for several games, not several shifts.


Radulov starts his career out at home, and I will be in attendance . I hope Luongo is in net because I want to see what he can do against a superstar goaltender.

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Old
10-20-2006, 11:07 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I like our team, I truly do, and I am pleased with management, etc. However, someone needs to step in and tell Trotz that Jerred Smithson and Jordin Tootoo should not be your first and second line right wingers when you have Scott Hartnell, Martin Erat, JP Dumont, and Scottie Upshall all who are better suited for the spot. Morever, putting Legwand with the scrubs, and Fiddler with the true scoring wings is borderline ridiculous when he has been up until last night our most creative forward. I'm still miffed at Tootoo on the first line. It simply does not make sense. He isn't on the same page as Arnott or Kariya....Erat is a much better puck handler and fights for the puck just as much as Tootoo in the corners.....simply a bad decision that has carried on for two games now.
Enoch, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense in the usual line thought process....but this is the exact same experiment that Trotz did at the end of the year last year right before our road trip with the team, and I asked Trotz about the specific thought process behind Tootoo on Kariya's line.

His response was that it created a huge match up problem for the other team, because "they didn't know how to react to Tootoo"....they didn't know whether he was there to agitate or actually play a more standard role on the first line....therefore giving Kariya alot more space out there. He commented that Anaheim was the only one who figured out how to counter it by putting Fedoruk on the line against them to neutralize Tootoo.

I think he is mainly using that strategy with the Eastern teams who don't really know us well....and I think it did throw NJ off there game last night early as evidenced by Colin White taking the retribution penalty, and us then scoring on the PP. I doubt we will see it near as much in the Western Conference games.

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10-20-2006, 11:17 AM
  #61
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That's what I thought too.

This will be solidified unless this happens again at home on Saturday when we get the second change.

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10-20-2006, 11:20 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
Enoch, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense in the usual line thought process....but this is the exact same experiment that Trotz did at the end of the year last year right before our road trip with the team, and I asked Trotz about the specific thought process behind Tootoo on Kariya's line.

His response was that it created a huge match up problem for the other team, because "they didn't know how to react to Tootoo"....they didn't know whether he was there to agitate or actually play a more standard role on the first line....therefore giving Kariya alot more space out there. He commented that Anaheim was the only one who figured out how to counter it by putting Fedoruk on the line against them to neutralize Tootoo.

I think he is mainly using that strategy with the Eastern teams who don't really know us well....and I think it did throw NJ off there game last night early as evidenced by Colin White taking the retribution penalty, and us then scoring on the PP. I doubt we will see it near as much in the Western Conference games.
You know that truly does make a certain amount of sense. Really, it does. For an expansion team trying like ###### to hopefully earn every point it can and that has to rely more on gimmicks than it should.

This team is expected to a contend for the division (most believe win), and make a lot of noise in the playoffs while being a real contender for the Cup.

This team has nine forwards who are skilled enough that any line could be the "top" line on a given night. That means that losing two still leaves you with enough forwards to create, or leave alone, two solid scoring lines. The Kariya- Arnott- Erat line is really starting to produce and doesn't need the gimmick of having Tootoo play on that line to throw anyone off.

These gimmicks are really starting to stunt our effectiveness and makes for games that are too close. It will also make for a first round exit from the playoffs again.

Off topic- It's weird carrying on "conversions" in two places at once.

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10-20-2006, 11:22 AM
  #63
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Even weirder- quoting a post from the other conversation:

Quote:
QUOTE(pred303guy @ Oct 20 2006, 10:32 AM) *

a few more follow on thoughts now given some time;

...mason. for some reason this guy often seems to draw some really tough assignments. not necessarily that he draws the tougher teams when he gets starts, that's not it. it just seems that when some surprise adversity comes up, like the surprise of sullivan being out, that it just happened to be his turn in the barrell many times over the last couple/ three years. something else that i find amazing is that mason always gets almost all his starts on the road. until vokoun went down, mason didn't have a single home start in his first 10 or 11 starts or something like that last year. this year is starting out no different, with both of his starts of course being on the road. looks like we would try to get your backup starts at home if possible, where you know you're going to play better and might need to depend on your goalie less. this year we'll see. we have 11 back to back games that are home and away or away and home, and 4 sets of back to back home games, contrasted with 3 back-to-back road pairs.

...erat, with a solid game obviously. great tip on the pp goal, picked up an assist on the first pp goal (one of those easy second assists admittedly), and then the great gamewinner in the shootout... i'll forget the awful turnover turnover ont he halfboard during one of those later pp's that lead to a 2 on 1 shorthanded rush

...arnott with the second or third straight good game from him, despite the -2... he's getting set in the mid-slot more and waiting for kariya to find his stick for the onetimer, all part of learning your teammates and their abilities.. he's coming around just fine.. he's very dangerous when he gets his puck on the stick right there...

...kariya with two assists, both first assists, both pretty plays. he missed the net twice on wide open shots, or he could have had a 'big' game

...legwand struggled i thought. had a couple of decent looks at the net, but had shots blocked. i really think this line juggling is affecting him and hartnell more than anyone else. why would we start off with fiddler centering harts and erat, and have leggy centering smithson and upshall i have no idea. should have swapped these centers from the opening drop of the puck. right now legwand is having a terrible time in the faceoff dot (23% now overall), and it's having a negative impact on his overall game.

...weber with a turnover or two, but man did he lay a couple of good hits in this one. seems to be re-finding the physical part of his game right now, which we need

...upshall with two good rebound chances one that went off clemmensen's glove, and another just over the crossbar. lots of jump, not much in the way of results for upshall again, but had a couple of good pk shifts, and his physical play is what drew that late penalty that should have out this game away.

...suter with a good game, except for the two penalties.. the one that put them on the 5 on 3 to end the second, and the bad crosschecking one in OT that almost cost us a point... basic hockey that wrist shot toward the goal after the faceoff win that paid off big time for us.

...smithson can be a frustrating player at times. weak first penalty in the neutral zone (that resulted in their first goal), and the "dive".. even though i thought it wasn't so much a dive as a fall.. but he played well on the pk to make up for it.

...dumont continues to struggle a little i think to fit into the offense. missed the net badly on one great two on one scoring chance. there's potential here, but we have to find the right linemates to tap that potential. it's probably not with nichol centering him.

...nichol. grin. sure it was a 'lucky' blind deflection. but it still was our key goal in this game. and the guy can play the pk, and win draws.

...talk about a turnaround. in the first when we outshot them 10-4, they had ZERO shots on net even strength. all 4 were on the 3 pp's they had had. and then they outshoot us 29 to 8 for the next 45 minutes. 29 to 8, amazing.

...i had breathed a sigh of relief when we drew that penalty at the 4:52 mark and the two goal lead, thinking that well this takes two more minutes off the gameclock. my next thought was "surely we can kill off this powerplay without them scoring".. it was a close run thing.

it wasn't that much fun last night, but today it's fun again... funny how that works
[sarcasm on]
To me, it makes all the sense in the world to take the two players that were the best forwards on the ice for the first five games and to then split them up. Since we don't have any skill on the other lines, we have to spread those two out.

It also makes loads of sense to take a line like Kariya-Arnott-Erat that is really starting to produce too much you know, and split them up.

Finally, while moving from the umbrella back to the overload seemed to work last night- don't be fooled. The Devils were just unsure how to gameplan us without Sully. We need his skill at the point, so when he returns it's back to the umbrella with Sully at the point as it has proven to be the most effective this year and last.

When things start to mesh (lines or special teams), that's the time to change before a team can adapt.
[/sarcasm off]

I don't mind changing the line combinations around, nor even running an umbrella PP with four forwards and one d-man- when it works. Now, when it's painfully obvious that the line juggling is stunting your skilled players then you need to stop. We've gotten lucky that Nichol and Smithson have contributed goals on this trip, but if we plan to live by the energy players consistently contributing then we'll most assurdedly die with it too.

I sometimes get the feel that this coaching staff is either stubborn with their style, or just don't have the right feel for their players. Given that they won't change the first unit PP (in more than one season now) and are constantly changing lines right as they gel- I suspect the former.

This team is built to attack. It's defense by having an aggressive offense. This team will not succeed unless they follow through with that- their personnel is not suited to it. The team that gave up eight goals and then six goals didn't have it wrong identity-wise. Their problem was offensive execution- too many turnovers from lazy passes (especially in the PP). Now, the defensemen should definitely play defense first- no question, but the majority of their problems were the lazy passes.

On Saturday the lines should be:

Kariya- Arnott- Erat
Hartnell- Legwand- Radulov
Upshall- Vasicek/Fiddler- Dumont
Smithson- Nichol- Tootoo

Admittedly, Dumont isn't the right fit, but that third line is that way due to injuries.

Unfortunately, it won't be that way- for any length of time anyway.

David

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Old
10-20-2006, 11:35 AM
  #64
Enoch
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Thanks for the input Handtrick, but I must say that to me those statements show a lack of confidence in our team. Do we truly need gimmicks, as Dr. Single so eloquently termed it, to win hockey games? I do not think we do. When we had Andreas Johansson as our first line center, yes we needed gimmicks. When we have Jason Arnott, Paul Kariya, Martin Erat, Steve Sullivan, David Legwand, Scott Hartnell, JP Dumont, Scottie Upshall, Josef Vasicek, and Radulov in Milwuakee, we have the talent to play our game regardless of who we face. We tried the Tootoo trick even when Sullivan was playing on Wed., and we did it again last night when he was not in the lineup. Either way, we still have the talent to take games over offensively. When is Trotz going to wake up and realize that this isn't an expansion team but a championship caliber team?

If Jordin Tootoo as a first line winger, is better than the other guys on our team, then God help us, we are going nowhere. The gimmicks need to stop, and we need to start playing Nashville Predators hockey, not, XXXXX teams hockey. Its time to stop thinking about tricks, and start focusing on how this team can gel together and force our game, rather than vice versa, down the other teams throat. Its great to analyze the other teams weaknesses and to adapt your style to beat them. It is not great to let the other team determine how we are going to play our game, and then outsmart ourselves by putting a fourth liner on the first line.

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10-20-2006, 02:32 PM
  #65
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I have to agree that our coach should not be game-planning based on gimmicks at this stage. MAYBE you pull that out when you really need it to change things up.

It is disturbing if the staff still has that mindset because we should be able to flat out play our game with any team in the league with this roster. Let's hope they give Radu the right linemates to see what he is ready for. Give him a taste to motivate him at the least. Luongo is playing very well, but I don't see the Nucks matching up against this lineup very well. We shall see soon enough...

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10-20-2006, 04:50 PM
  #66
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sorry, haven't been able to sign on here for a few days for some reson; the first half of comments where drsingle got my last half:

what a rollercoaster ride hockey can be. joy, panic, anger, disbelief, anger again, hope, despair, anxiety, frustration, esctasy all in one game. and that was just during the shootout. you know, being a fan of a talented hockey team with very high expectations has it's disadvantages in that sometimes you're not able to simply relax and see the big picture. right now, we should all be simply breathing a big sigh of relief, a perfect (cough,cough) 3 game road trip and 4 straight wins fixes a lot of problems.

just a few opening thoughts here before work;

...i knew something was up with sully, he hasn't been right for over a week in my mind. don't totally go for this "it just came up right before the game" line. there was a hint of this prior to "just" before the game, look at trotz's quote in the paper today, "when we checked (Thursday) morning, Sullivan was fine".. i take it to believe this meant that his back was bothering him prior to yesterday, which is why they "checked on him" yesterday morning. explains things to me that i've seen over the past 2-3 games.

...we fuss about the need for the pp to maybe simplify and reduce the number of "skill" players on the first unit and/or return to an overload yesterday. sully sits, we go back to an overload system with two d-men on the first unit, we attack the net, and bang, we score two powerplay goals on our first two pp shots... coincidence? i think not

...the pk with an overall strong game (thank you mason). another huge kill of a 5 on 3. fiddler, nichol and smithson are all playing huge roles here of course. another solid pk performance, you simply have to hand it to the devils on that first pp goal by gionta, that was an unstoppable goal thanks to the touch pass from elias.

...these mixed and matched lines are wearing thin on me. given the personnel we had available last night, we shuold have loaded up two scoring lines, maybe kariya-arnott-erat, hartnell-legwand-dumont... and then used a third/fourth line of upshall-fiddler-smithson and nichol-tootoo. the simple fact is that even though we have won these two games with these wild combinations, it has been because of special teams and goaltending more than anything and certainly not these line combinations even strength that have done it.

...last night's game will be used an instructional video for the league of why a two goal lead is dangerous. we are still trying to learn as a team what to do once we get a two goal lead. think of it, now out of our 7 games played, we have had at least a 2 goal lead in 6 of those games. one of the things we hammered ourselves on, was the fact that we 'blew' two goal leads that we had early in the two first games. vokoun and the coaches all have reinforced publicly since then, that "we have to play different and not take chances" when we get in those situations again. well last night, we played "differently". our strategy for the next 30 minutes was basically "get the puck behind their d-men deep into their zone every time down". we did this and it almost worked killing the clock. almost. this team is a different type of team. we're a team that relies on our own puck possession to keep the puck away from the other team. we've all talked about this, that to take the pressure off our small, quick, young dmen, that we would have to control the puck more in our offensive end. when we attack we do this. when we try to play passive and protect the lead, well we cann't. it's going to be a nailbitting year for this team because of this. we're going to get lots of leads, and the "book" says when we do we need to take fewer chances on the offensive end. yet when we take fewer chances, we will many times hand momentum over to the other team. yet, if we continue to attack we will at times give the other team great chances counterattacking us... we're simply not built as a team that is going to be great at sitting back and protecting a lead, we're built as an attacking team. trotz is going to earn his money with this this year as it's going to be an ongoing struggle.

...say what we want, last night was mason's win pure and simple. the guy was good in regualtion, really good to be honest. he was brilliant in the overtime to give us a chance to give us one more point. he was slightly above brilliant in the shootout to steal us that point. he singlehandedly kept this game from ending on the pp they had in OT, a full two minute 4 on 3... four tough, tough saves on blistering shots with lots of traffic and sticks everywhere.. and on all but one of them no rebound at all... that was some more penalty killing he did there in OT... and mason remains a great shootout goalie... 0 for 8 now all time against him, and that's not a fluke... his positioning means it takes a perfect shot to beat him, that's his strong suit... and since he relies on positioning and not reaction it makes it tough for guys that like to deke first..

whew, another easy win... more later this morning

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