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Full face cages in the NHL

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Old
06-15-2006, 11:43 AM
  #51
AGraveOne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technophile
According to your own argument, a helmet is only of INFINITELY more value in a car than in hockey if the steering wheel is intending to smash you in the face. Which it's not, at least in any car I've ever been in.

Death may not be common from pucks to the face, but facial injuries, up to and including the loss (temporary or permanent) of vision in an eye, are quite commonly caused by high sticks. In fact, it's a rare NHL game where you don't see at least one high-stick and someone grabbing at their face. That's an entirely predictable, easily avoidable danger--much more predictable and avoidable than nearly any car accident.

If full visors/cages were required, Al McInnis might still be playing. Brian Berard would still be able to see out both eyes. etc, etc.
nope two different comments there...
accidental death in a car may be curtailed by enforcing a Helmet law, just as, enforcing a face cage in hockey would curtail accidental injuries to the face. Neither is intentional...unlike the case of the dangerous predator, where there are HIGH ODDS of it wanting to eat you if you cross its path.

And that is more valuable than a single life that might have been saved if we were required to wear helmets in our cars?

If anyone thinks that face cages should be mandatory in the NHL they should also think that Helmets should be mandatory when in a motor vehicle. If not then they are quite contradictory in their judgements.

Why don't people wear Helmets in cars?

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06-15-2006, 12:50 PM
  #52
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Why don't guys wear full face cages in rec leagues? Because it's their choice. Why do guys wear full face cages in rec leagues? It's their choice.

Has anyone said cages should be mandatory in the NHL? They've just said they should be an option. You wanna wear a helmet in your car? Be our guest, buddy, it's your choice.

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Old
06-15-2006, 03:17 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGraveOne
If anyone thinks that face cages should be mandatory in the NHL they should also think that Helmets should be mandatory when in a motor vehicle. If not then they are quite contradictory in their judgements.
Sorry, but that's a logical fallacy. First of all, there is already safety equipment in cars designed to protect your head/face, namely the seat belt in combination with the air bag(s), the car's crumple zones, stiff steel frame, etc. A helmet would be redundant.

There is no equivalent safety feature to a full cage already "built in" in hockey.

Now, if you had used motorcycles as your analogy, instead of cars, I would agree with you -- full helmets with cages or visors that cover the face should be mandatory for both.

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06-16-2006, 09:47 AM
  #54
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Having played junior without a full face shield for four years after years of minor hockey with one i would never go back to a full face shield if i was playing contact hockey.

For me when wearing a full cage occasionally when i got ran into the boards instead of the helmet absorbing the impact the impact was transfered through the full cage straight into the jaw, increasing the risk of in infact causing a concussion in one instance.

If i was playing non-contact hockey i could see the case for wearing one. Personally i would never go without a half visor, Teeth can be relatively easily repaired, eyes can't.

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06-16-2006, 09:56 AM
  #55
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I just don't trust other players in my men's D league to control their sticks, or themselves. NHLers can get away without rocking faceshields because for the most part, they're all in control and alert. Granted you probably see at least one dude get sniped in the face nightly, but still, they're getting paid a lot of money to play hockey, and chances are you're not.

I back face protection to protect my face.

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Old
06-16-2006, 01:40 PM
  #56
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I used to sport the full cage, then I got a new helmet and didn't feel like taking the time to swap the cage over, I am confident in my own abilities to stay safe while skating and not do anything stupid to hurt myself, but then again I am confident in my driving abilities and that dosn't gaurantee I wont get T-Boned when I leave my house after typing this to go back to work. However the guys in my mens league seem to all be aware and careful with sticks in the face are but I will be purchasing a half shield so I can at least look cool, and to imagine, last season I actually clipped someone in the face with my stick

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Old
06-16-2006, 06:15 PM
  #57
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Warning! RANT. look out. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocity
You are not allowed to wear a full cage. it is a rule in the AHL-UHL-NHL--only if injured....
Absolutely crazy rule, as I stated before. If it is for fighting reasons, it's even crazier. Is it to protect the aggressor in an altercation from potentially injuring his fist, while breaking the rules of the game to punch an opponent in the face? If it is for business marketing purposes, it comes at a cost. And, I'll get to the marketing issue below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723
, no cages.

Friend's son was 5 or 6 when he started playing hockey. He tripped trying to make a turn and the cage busted his nose. Kinda funny the thing that was supposed to
protect him helped injure him.
I rear-ended someone, and my seatbelt hurt my shoulder a little. Thumbs down! Seriously though, there's 2 comments I have regarding your statement.

1. As mentioned by several others, there's no way this helmet could have been correctly adjusted.

2. Even in the event that the helmet was worn correctly (again, I'm skeptical), this by no means takes away from the advantage of wearing a facemask. Imagine the extent of the injury if there wasn't a facemask? The additional force absorbed by the helmet could have resulted in broken teeth, a broken jaw, perhaps even a serious concussion. Who knows. As mentioned above, I rear-ended someone once, and the shoulder strap of my seatbelt caused some soft tissue damage to my shoulder. Better a sore shoulder than a human cannonball. I would have probably been through the windshield if it wasn't for the seatbelt. It doesn't eliminate the risk of injury, but it drastically minimizes the risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaskulaR
Try marketing a high level hockey team where the fans can't see a players face. It's impossible. Star recognition is important!

Compare 2 advertising situations side by side:
Would you rather see a poster of a Bobby Hull let's say, blonde hair flowing in the wind as he skates up ice, earning his nickname the 'Golden Jet.'

Or rather Joe Schmoe with his full wire cage looking as anonymous as possible. I think it's obvious which one would draw the attention of your casual eye.

Marketing wise, full cages are a DISASTER (I've done alot of marketing in the USHL where players have the option. Thank God i have an equiptment manager who demands that players do not wear cages.) And the NHL needs as much marketing help as it can get. As long as the players get their OWN insurance for playing, they should be free to wear as little or as much as they want.
Agreed, cages would present a bit of a challenge in terms of marketing. However, as pointed out several times already, look at football! The NFL is a huge success. I don't think facemasks would present as much of a problem as getting people in Southern states to relate to a game played on ice.

Also, think about sports such as NASCAR. During the event, you can't even see the driver, let alone the driver's face. Yet people like Jeff Gordon seem to be fairly well known and recognizeable. It's not impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny__K
For me when wearing a full cage occasionally when i got ran into the boards instead of the helmet absorbing the impact the impact was transfered through the full cage straight into the jaw, increasing the risk of in infact causing a concussion in one instance.
Increasing the risk? I wouldn't say so. It certainly failed to eliminate the risk, but I wouldn't say it increased the risk. Keep in mind, a properly fitted helmet/facemask combo doesn't transfer the force ONLY to the jaw, it is also transferred to the brackets at the sides of the head holding the cage in place, and the top screws on the forehead. Essentially, the point impact on the face is distributed across the entire perimiter of the face. Also, much of that impact is then absorbed by the hard foam chin cup, and the soft foam helmet liner. Needless to say, this greatly reduces the overall impact.

And again, as mentioned above, would the situation have been better if you were not wearing a facemask? I think it would be foolish to assume so. If it was your jaw, cheek, nose, etc making contact with the boards instead of the cage, you almost certainly would have received more serious injuries.

Aside from potential neck injuries related to facemasking, I think it's ludicrous to state that a facemask could actually increase a player's risk. I don't think marketing would be as much of an issue as people think. And facemasks don't make players invincible, but they do minimize injury risk greatly. IMO, the issue is simply a matter of tradition and macho culture - nothing more. I personally think players are crazy to play without a mask, as they're putting their earning potential at risk. I also think it's crazy from the perspective of ownership, as they're risking injury to big investments.

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Old
06-26-2006, 04:43 AM
  #58
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It seems almost everyone here wears a cage. Is that the case over there in the US and Canada, and Europe? I was under the impression, probably because of the NHL, that hardly anyone wore cages there.

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06-26-2006, 06:09 PM
  #59
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In the US cages are worn at every level except professional, where it becomes the players choice.

Normally, I would agree that cages should be an individual choice. But at the amateur level, I think they should be mandatory. Why? It's unfair to your opponent if you don't protect yourself.

Example: last week a guy was stickhandling in the corner, I was skating toward him and reached my stick out to try to lift his and get at the puck with my skates. But the guy wasn't wearing any facial protection. As a result, I went in tentatively, and missed his stick. (But because I was being careful, I was able to stop may blade before it reached his face)

Flip that around, I'm stickhandling with my cage on; is he going to think twice about going all out to violently lift my stick? (exactly how hockey is meant to be played) Of course not.

I'm sure some people here will say that it's his responsability, and I shouldn't let up, but I doubt if any of them were in this situation, they would have intentionally put another player's health at risk intentionally.

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Old
06-27-2006, 08:57 AM
  #60
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Even if he'd had a full cage, it's your responsibility to control your stick. High sticking is a penalty whether he's wearing a full cage or not; among other things, you could still hit him in the throat.

I say this as a player who always wears a full cage; wearing one doesn't mean it's open season to wave your stick around my head.

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Old
06-27-2006, 09:06 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technophile
Even if he'd had a full cage, it's your responsibility to control your stick. High sticking is a penalty whether he's wearing a full cage or not; among other things, you could still hit him in the throat.

I say this as a player who always wears a full cage; wearing one doesn't mean it's open season to wave your stick around my head.
Even though I wear a full cage I still bark at people to keep their stick down. One of the worst offenders is a kid (he's 13 yrs old) who shows up to our pick up skate.

The guys I never have to say anything to are the guys who've played at a very high level.

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Old
06-27-2006, 12:31 PM
  #62
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hmmm

I have not wore a cage in 12 years since I left college for the minors. If you put cages on everyone the game will become more danergous. Their will be no accounability at all

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Old
06-27-2006, 04:05 PM
  #63
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AHL just approved visors.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=169862&hubname=nhl

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Old
06-27-2006, 04:28 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocity
I have not wore a cage in 12 years since I left college for the minors. If you put cages on everyone the game will become more danergous. Their will be no accounability at all
I agree with this statement. I've seen how the game has gotten much worse at the college level since the masks became manditory in 1982. Before, you rarely saw anyone get hit in the face. Now, these players have grown up playing with the things, and have never gotten hurt or cut, so they don't care! I can't tell you how many times I have seen a stick waving around in the air by my head, and it's always a youngster just out of high school or junior hockey. The older guys, after a few years, realize the stick is dangerous and is MEANT to do things to the puck, not to the opposing player's head!

Personally, I just went back to a half shield last season, but don't really like it. It fogs up, it's hot, you don't see as well, and in MY case, it makes me MORE timid! I'm aware of getting hit in the face when I wear it. When I don't wear one, I don't think about it at all and play much better. A friend on my team took a fairly intentional stick in the eye last year, though, so I thought I'd better put SOMETHING on for awhile. I may switch to the cage/shield combo soon, or I may take it off altogether again. I hadn't worn a mask of any kind in 7 years, and only got cut once, so I'm not too worried about that. But there are getting to be a bunch of hacks in my men's league these days, and THEY scare me!

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Old
06-28-2006, 06:44 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technophile
Even if he'd had a full cage, it's your responsibility to control your stick. High sticking is a penalty whether he's wearing a full cage or not; among other things, you could still hit him in the throat.

I say this as a player who always wears a full cage; wearing one doesn't mean it's open season to wave your stick around my head.
That doesn't really mean anything. Of course I try to avoid highsticking, but if I try to lift someone's stick and miss (happens all the time in the NHL) I might not be able to stop the blade before it hits the player.

I get clipped in the helmet/mask from time to time, probably in part because I go harder in the corners and slot and don't worry about it. I consider it part of the game.

When I pitched baseball, I would throw hard inside. If the batter got hit, he got hit. Do you think it would've been fair to me if someone had stepped up to bat without a helmet on?

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Old
07-03-2006, 03:14 AM
  #66
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The NFL and NASCAR are currently the 2 most popular spectator sports in the country, the NHL is a league struggling in the United States right now. You simply cannot compare the 2 from a marketing standpoint as they are completely different animals. THEY AREN"T THE SAME SPORT. They have totally different marketing models. If you would like to tell me it was easier selling USHL hockey with SOME players wearing cages than it was when I worked in the OHL with players faces at least partly visible, which is great for selling action shots, making posters, having the kids who come after school appearances being able to recognize the players; then you can tell me that, but that doesn't make it true. Patrons of hockey games like to see who they are cheering for.

Also, I agree with the ex-player who says that mandatory facial protection leads to less accountability. I wish there was a study, but I bet with all the concussion helmets and facemasks there are just as many head/neck injuries (teeth discounted) in NCAA hockey as there were in 1980, with not much disparity either way. The more you protect these guys, the less of a sense of mortality there is, and the less they will be inclined to control themselves from hurting another player.

Cages in the NHL and other pro levels would do nothing to enhance the on ice product or protect the players more.

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Old
07-03-2006, 01:46 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
, no cages.


Friend's son was 5 or 6 when he started playing hockey. He tripped trying to make a turn and the cage busted his nose. Kinda funny the thing that was supposed to protect him helped injure him.
If if he didnt have a cage then he would have went face first into the ice....whats the difference?

I love my Cage, i dont even notice it when i play so im fine. Plus i get hit up high all he time so if i didnt have it i'd probably have lost about 20 teeth already with a puck or stick.


Last edited by FLYLine24*: 07-04-2006 at 01:24 AM.
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07-03-2006, 03:23 PM
  #68
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I think it was Phillips from Ottawa that had the full cage/visor. Not sure why this was....

EDIT: Could've been Fisher now that I think about it....


Last edited by TakeThatTootoo: 07-03-2006 at 04:49 PM.
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Old
07-15-2006, 09:48 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaskulaR View Post
Try marketing a high level hockey team where the fans can't see a players face. It's impossible. Star recognition is important!

Compare 2 advertising situations side by side:
Would you rather see a poster of a Bobby Hull let's say, blonde hair flowing in the wind as he skates up ice, earning his nickname the 'Golden Jet.'

Or rather Joe Schmoe with his full wire cage looking as anonymous as possible. I think it's obvious which one would draw the attention of your casual eye.

Marketing wise, full cages are a DISASTER (I've done alot of marketing in the USHL where players have the option. Thank God i have an equiptment manager who demands that players do not wear cages.) And the NHL needs as much marketing help as it can get. As long as the players get their OWN insurance for playing, they should be free to wear as little or as much as they want.

It's funny, of all the years I've been comeing to hockey's future I've never come to 'The Rink'.

Anyways, to answere your question, from a marketing point of view which would be easier to attract a million dollar contract...a pretty boy with a million dollar face or a pretty boy with a broken nose, missing teeth and nerve damage all over his face?

I think hockey culture has it *** backwards when it comes to marketing it's stars. The guy on the ice wants ppl to see his busted up face as he skates around. Other sports want their stars to protect their money makers. Now ask me who is more sucessful and who is getting the big dollar personal contracts? True hockey in general makes less when it comes to general marketing and money, but one would think that would cause them to copy cat the susecful leagues.

As for the original post; I actually use both a half sheild and full shield that I just leave in my bag in case a game breaks out. and I seriously can't tell the difference except that i have to unbuckle the full every time I need a drink and it gets kinda tireing. I'm not in a league or anything but even just playing pick up with my buddies I've seen too many chikletts spit on the ice, theres no way I'm going without a full shield. Even with drop-in and all the pucks flying around I'm thinking it's even more dangersous, but I just spent a pretty penny on a wicked looking Oakly set up so I can't retire the half just yet, besides it looks cool.

Shy.

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Old
10-20-2006, 02:08 PM
  #70
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"Try marketing a high level hockey team where the fans can't see a players face. It's impossible. Star recognition is important! "

Do you know what emmit smith looks like? LoL. He wears a cage! Look at ovechkin...you can't tell what his face looks like anyway with his mirrored half shield on.

Nhl players never used to wear helmets. The first goalie to wear a facemask has his heterosexuality questioned.

It has nothing to do with vision,(a half visor still is in front of your eyes, why not wear a full one????!!!)


Not WEARING A FULL SHIELD IS A MACHO STUPIDTY THING. It's the current cultural conformist stupidty of hockey. It's like being called a ***** for wearing a helmet while riding your bicycle...no helmet no brains.. And a lot of players want to wear a full shield, but are not allowed or afraid that players will try to run them.
Also, a full shield DRAMTICALLY reduces concussions because the JAW, which is the major cause of concussion(just watch boxing if you don't believe me) is protected.

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Old
10-20-2006, 02:52 PM
  #71
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Thats stupid that you dont have the option to wear one if you want. Oh and the guy talking about car accidents and helmets and the nhl and facemasks... no. Just... no.

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Old
10-20-2006, 05:01 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaskulaR View Post
Cages in the NHL and other pro levels would do nothing to enhance the on ice product or protect the players more.
Yes, and the people get cranky when the lions don't eat the gladiators.

If you need to put the players at risk in order to successfully market the sport then I'd say you're fresh out of creative ideas. Time to go back to the drawing board.

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Old
10-20-2006, 06:01 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
Yes, and the people get cranky when the lions don't eat the gladiators.

If you need to put the players at risk in order to successfully market the sport then I'd say you're fresh out of creative ideas. Time to go back to the drawing board.
That works both ways. If the game is at the point where the players need to be protected from head to toe. Maybe it's time you look at how the game is played.

It's like letting people swim in shark infested waters as long as they have shark repeliant.

There were far less injuries back when the players didn't wear helmets, let alone face masks or full cages.

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10-20-2006, 06:09 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
That works both ways. If the game is at the point where the players need to be protected from head to toe. Maybe it's time you look at how the game is played.

It's like letting people swim in shark infested waters as long as they have shark repeliant.

There were far less injuries back when the players didn't wear helmets, let alone face masks or full cages.

The sticks weighed a ton and the skates back then sucked. Slower speeds plus no one is just swinging their stick around wildly.

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Old
10-20-2006, 06:10 PM
  #75
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Matt Cooke wore a full visor-mask when his jaw was broken, nobody thought him any less of a man. Granted - it wasn't a cage

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