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Kaberle/Harrison for Gonchar

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01-02-2004, 02:32 PM
  #26
Baun21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordique
There are more than 4 defencemen I'd take before Gonchar on my team. Foote, Redden, Chara, Hatcher off the top of my head...
But none of them are on the market right now nor will they be in the forseeable future, which was the point I was making before about the Leafs being limited to what is out there.

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01-02-2004, 02:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Baun21
But none of them are on the market right now nor will they be in the forseeable future, which was the point I was making before about the Leafs being limited to what is out there.
But if you look at emenius's stats, we could be making a very big mistake in letting Kaberle go. Gonchar will put up more points now, but he won't solve all of our defensive problems. Given that we might very well lose out on this deal long term, it doesn't make sense to make a move like this.

If we can't get a Redden or a Pronger, how about a Steve Staios, or a Darryl Sydor, or even Dmitri Yushkevich? Not sure what the value of Staios would be, but in another thread a Jackets fan said he could be had for a 2nd.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=40150

We wouldn't have to give up Kaberle, and we could get some nice depth for the playoffs. That would be a great deal.

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01-02-2004, 02:50 PM
  #28
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Everyone wants a good defenseman!

Even Gonchar wont come cheap,the demand for good defenseman at playoff time /trade deadline will be too great.To get Goncahr,we would have to give up something of note but i doubt we will give up covo plus.We can only dream of getting the likes of Pronger,Jovo,Rhedden,Hatcher,Foote etc.As trade bait we have kaberle,the only thing that would peak most Gm's interest.Because kaberle is young and cheap we could get a good vet in return.Brewer wont help enough now and even Gonchar isnt the answer.Its an offensive upgrade but we still need a rugged defensive guy like Klee.Kaberle for Brewer,Gonchar will be part but not all of the answer.Most likely fergie will wait till the trade deadline and pick up a top four vet dman for some prospsects ie harrison,hedin.

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01-02-2004, 03:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27
Even Gonchar wont come cheap,the demand for good defenseman at playoff time /trade deadline will be too great.To get Goncahr,we would have to give up something of note but i doubt we will give up covo plus.We can only dream of getting the likes of Pronger,Jovo,Rhedden,Hatcher,Foote etc.As trade bait we have kaberle,the only thing that would peak most Gm's interest.Because kaberle is young and cheap we could get a good vet in return.Brewer wont help enough now and even Gonchar isnt the answer.Its an offensive upgrade but we still need a rugged defensive guy like Klee.Kaberle for Brewer,Gonchar will be part but not all of the answer.Most likely fergie will wait till the trade deadline and pick up a top four vet dman for some prospsects ie harrison,hedin.

Wonderful plan, if there were a top 4 vet dman out there to be had. Give me names, there just isn't anyone out there right now, nor will there be at the deadline. People don't shop defensemen because the Toronto Maple Leafs need one. Gonchar is going to be the big name out there, there isn't going to be anyone else. As for Staios (someone mentioned him), I doubt he'd add much to the blueline. We need a differencemaker not more defensive depth. Now don't get me wrong, the more I listen to the arguments of Kaberle vs Gonchar the more I don't like the idea of trading oner for the other. It might be possible to do something like Berg, Wellwood (who is the top points man in St. John's right now as a rookie) and our first in 2004 for Gonchar. That I could see. It wouldn't hurt the Leafs too much as they have Steen and probably Immonen coming over from Europe next year. Would it be enough for Washington though? It's definitely comparable to the package we sent to San Jose for Nolan last year (McCauley, Boyes, 1st in 2003).

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01-02-2004, 03:19 PM
  #30
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01-05-2004, 06:30 PM
  #31
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Man, you guys are... interesting people. I'm surprised no Caps fan has gotten on this board and made fun of you.

Gonchar is a point-a-game blueliner - he's worth more than the entire Leafs' blueline you think Kaberle and Harrison would be enough?

Oy... Well, keep dreaming.

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01-05-2004, 06:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
- he's worth more than the entire Leafs' blueline you think Kaberle and Harrison would be enough?
Yea, you keep dreaming.

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01-05-2004, 07:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Gonchar is a point-a-game blueliner - he's worth more than the entire Leafs' blueline you think Kaberle and Harrison would be enough?

Oy... Well, keep dreaming.
How 'bout you go back to your evil underground lair and get yourself a clue?

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01-06-2004, 04:54 AM
  #34
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I'm not so sure that Gonchar is the answer (he wouldn't necessarily guarantee the Leafs the Cup). However, I wouldn't mind seeing JFJ making a trade for Matvichuk (sp?). He would be a solid d-man that could clear the crease against teams like Philly and NJ, and I don't think the Leafs would need to give up a much for him as they would for Gonchar.

Perhaps Bell/Harrison and a 3rd?

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01-06-2004, 06:47 AM
  #35
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If Kaberle and Gonchar were the same age and had the same contract, the Leafs would have to make that deal.

But reality is that Kaberle is much younger and much cheaper, so I don't think I'd send Kaberle for Gonchar.

Also, one point that everyone seems to overlook. Kaberle is our top penalty killing defenceman. He'd be tough to replace back there. Especially considering Gonchar doesn't kill penalties.

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01-06-2004, 03:08 PM
  #36
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I may take some heat for saying this but Harrison would be the last of the defensive prospects I would deal.. Harrison reminds me of a young Scott Stevens.

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01-06-2004, 03:22 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
Especially considering Gonchar doesn't kill penalties.
This isn't true. Gonchar plays just over 2 mins PK/g and averages just over 27 mins per game. He is the Washington defense....

Check the stats for yourself.

h**p://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/stats

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Old
01-06-2004, 03:59 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
How 'bout you go back to your evil underground lair and get yourself a clue?
You people the one's that don't have a clue. As NJ Devil Boy said, Gonchar is the Capitals. He is the only player Washington has. They would have traded him (sold him) already except that if they do they know that the few remaining Caps fans will leave the building and the team is dead.
Gonchar is already a great offensive defenseman. Kaberle has the potential but there is no guarantee he will approach Gonchar's level.

It would require a player 23-27 years old with star quality. I don't think the Leafs can supply that.

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01-06-2004, 05:32 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops II
It would require a player 23-27 years old with star quality. I don't think the Leafs can supply that.
Kerberle. Just check out his stats, aswell.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:36 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenius
Kerberle. Just check out his stats, aswell.
I don't follow you. His stats are nothing to write home about.

Kaberle 37 2 11 13

Gonchar 41 4 35 39


Gonchar plays on an AHL calibre team and is at almost a point a game. His +/- is terrible but some of that can be attributed to his teammates.
Kaberle playing on one of the top 5 teams in the NHL is on pace for a 28 point season.
Another thing to consider is that while Kaberle is younger (25) Gonchar is only 29, at the top of his game, and could easily have 10 years left in the NHL.
Add to that that the team acquiring will probably have to ante up even mor than he is worth to placate Caps fans and you can see it would need something more than Kaberle to interest the Caps.

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Old
01-07-2004, 03:45 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops II
I don't follow you. His stats are nothing to write home about.

Kaberle 37 2 11 13

Gonchar 41 4 35 39


Gonchar plays on an AHL calibre team and is at almost a point a game. His +/- is terrible but some of that can be attributed to his teammates.
Kaberle playing on one of the top 5 teams in the NHL is on pace for a 28 point season.
Another thing to consider is that while Kaberle is younger (25) Gonchar is only 29, at the top of his game, and could easily have 10 years left in the NHL.
Add to that that the team acquiring will probably have to ante up even mor than he is worth to placate Caps fans and you can see it would need something more than Kaberle to interest the Caps.
Thats fine you keep Gonchar and lose him when he becomes a UFA in like a year considering there will more then likely be a lockout. And we'll keep Kaberle and fill out our top 4 with what I hope is a player like Acoin, Hammer, or Brewer.... Though if we just get another decent top 3 defenceman then that would also make me happy.

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Old
01-07-2004, 09:07 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops II
I don't follow you. His stats are nothing to write home about.

Kaberle 37 2 11 13

Gonchar 41 4 35 39

Check out this Post.

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Old
01-08-2004, 08:24 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenius
Check out this Post.

I agree his point totals were progressing well until this year. He could reach Gonchar's level but Gonchar is a sure thing - a 70+ pt defenseman on a good team.
I am trying to look at it from Leonsis's perspective. If I am wrong it will befor the reason Joey24 pointed out. Leonsis may just move Gonchar for what he can get to avoid loosing him as a free agent. That would be a very strong possibility if Leonsis knows the owners are going to take a hard line in contract negotiations. Washington could move Gonchar for prospects and hope that the fans ire will have died down by the time the strike is over.

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Old
01-08-2004, 10:17 AM
  #44
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Good job emenius. I was going to link up that post for Cyclops.

The fact is, Kaberle is having a down year this season but is a 25-year-old 40-50 point defenceman. That is worth plenty, whether you think so or not.

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