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Our Downfalls This Year Will Be...The D and Renney

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Old
10-18-2006, 09:26 PM
  #76
illmatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illmatic in the first post
selective accountibility
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Originally Posted by illmatic in the Nashville GDT
34 seconds of ice time for Prucha in the 3rd period so far (about 6 mins to go)

lol @ Renney, yeah sit Prucha like he's anywhere near the top of the list of issues with this team...dude gives it all every shift...yet Renney still finds a way to keep playing the same pathetic D-Men no matter how many mistakes they make or penalties they take...selective accountibility, clueless Renney

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Originally Posted by Balej20 in the Nashville GDT
The reporters question was something to the affect of "Malik has made a lot of mistakes lately, is this a concern?" and Renney answered with "Can you give me an example of something he has done wrong?"
"what did Malik do wrong?" vs. benching Prucha...ok coach

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10-18-2006, 09:30 PM
  #77
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I guess everytime the Rangers lose this year, this thread will be bumped to the top of the board.
haha the "OFFICIAL: Vent After A Rangers Loss" thread...nah I just wanted to bump it after some people thought all these issues were "fixed" after 1 win...these issues obviously will still need to be addressed throughout the year because they've existed since last March

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10-18-2006, 10:34 PM
  #78
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Same people.Same tired opinions.Blah,blah,blah

They don't mention Roszival missed the entire pre-season with knee surgery.Why let facts get in the way
If Roszival is having problems due to missing time because of his knee injury, why does Renney keep playing him 22-26 minutes a night? Especially when he held out Kaspar for the 1st 6 games because he wasn't in "game shape".

Clearly, Renney doesn't believe it's an issue worth mentioning, why should we be making excuses based on it?

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10-18-2006, 10:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
If Roszival is having problems due to missing time because of his knee injury, why does Renney keep playing him 22-26 minutes a night? Especially when he held out Kaspar for the 1st 6 games because he wasn't in "game shape".

Clearly, Renney doesn't believe it's an issue worth mentioning, why should we be making excuses based on it?
Yep.

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10-18-2006, 10:45 PM
  #80
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Yep.
In a pie chart of problems this team is facing Rozsivial probably wouldn't register. He is way down the list of things going wrong for the Rangers right now. Bash Maliks start to the season but bashing Rozsival is baseless..

I understand posters need a scapegoat but Rozsival shouldn't be the scapegoat. His minutes ARE a concern but his 5 on 5 minutes are in line with the rest of the team. He is getting to much power play time and that should be reduced when Ozo comes back..

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10-19-2006, 02:44 PM
  #81
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I say give Renney until the end of November to get his act together or he should be fired. This guy is overrated as hell.

What has Renney done?

1) Led the team in 05-06 to the playoffs for the first time in 7 years

2) PK has improved for the most part, the guy he works with got in a groove last season

What hasnt Renney been able to do?

1) Discipline his team. The Rangers havent been able to stop taking these undisiplined calls and its getting worse so far this season. Jagr hasnt been impressive at all as the Captain. I was at the game last night and he was falling and diving left and right, and always gets at least 1 hooking call per game.

2) Get his team going. This season we have been seeing the same half-*** effort night in night out. Last season he completely failed to have any influence over his players as seen in the playoff disaster. I remember him saying in a press conference after a loss, " Were ready to play the Flyers RIGHT NOW ". What happens? The Rangers come out and get rocked like usual. Renney has little motivational power over the players. If he couldnt get it done for a month last season, what makes you think he is going to change?

3) Change the PP. I know the coordinator sucks, but Renney has to take what is best for him and find it to work. He cant. Still the same 2 guys on the point, 2 on each end of the goal line, and one hovering around the deep back end of the slot at least 20 feet from the net. No one is getting in front of the net, still too much passing.

4) Bench his players. A quick newsflash to all the Malik and Rozival haters, they arent going to " get good " all of the sudden and start producing. So if they suck, what do you do? Bench them and experiment. I have no clue why Renney let Malik get so much ice time last night, but I can make sure though in the next game, since Renney doesnt have the balls, Malik will be seeing at least 25 minutes of ice time. Alot of you are going to continue to ***** this season about the D, but the quick remedy to fix the D until we pull the trigger on a deal is to bench the crap, but apparantly Tom hasnt gotten the memo yet.

5) Consistent lines. If you start losing in a game and are desperate, switching the lines doesnt work. Jagr probably has a better chance of scoring with his line instead of some silly combo pairing him will Betts and some other 2-3 liners.


If Renney gets fired before the end of November, we will still have time to turn around the season and sneak in the playoffs in a 7th or 8th seed. Alot of you people say that its only 7 games into the season, but you have to remember how this team has played after the Olympic break. The Rangers are 3-15 in their last 18 games, not to mention .500 hockey since the Olympics. They got most of their wins in the first half of the season, which gives Renney this " imposter " image of being so great.

The Olympics had little to do with the Rangers downfall. The Flyers had Nittymaki (sp) and Forsberg playing in the Olympics and they managed to at least make a little mark in the playoffs and the second half of the season.

Being completely honest, I really cant see this team going forward with Renney still behind the bench. You would think he would open his eyes and see this wreck, but it still is taking him time, and its been almost 2 months already.

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10-19-2006, 09:47 PM
  #82
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^^ great post (I also agree with Renney not being the coach to take us to the next level, but that's another topic)...the way I see it Renney isn't bulletproof and any idea of a honeymoon period for him was erased by the enormous collapse last year...if these negative issues (that started in the second half of last year) are still issues as we get deeper into the season he should definitely be put on notice

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10-19-2006, 10:11 PM
  #83
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Brooklyn...

great point.

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10-20-2006, 12:24 AM
  #84
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I'm very surprised no one else brought it up

It's very hard no to wonder (as you have done, Fletch), why Renney was so intent on sending Kaspar a message, but seems to be treating Roszival as if he were fully involved in pre-season and training camp. We already know that Roszival's problems increase with his ice time, but Renney seems absolutely intent upon treating him as his #1 go-to defenseman. Really makes me wonder.

Overall, I think the biggest problem this organization has is the success it had last year. It's very possible that we ran instead of relearning how to walk again. And now, for whatever reason (and there are many) the problems are showing up early. Not to mention that so much of whatever success is possible is riding on Jagr having another great season. If he is merely very good will that be enough? Right now, the answer is no.

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10-20-2006, 06:39 AM
  #85
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I think a problem on this team is that it seems like the players where all too content with reading their own press clipings about how they will finish top 3 in the East. They forgot to show up defensivly for pretty much every game after the first two, they even played sloppy at times in the Jersey game, even though they won. I have confidence that they will turn it around and play up to their ability/expectations, when that will happen I dont know, but they cant keep loosing divisional games, because they could come back to bit them later on in the season. Just my take on this current state.

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10-20-2006, 08:31 AM
  #86
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[QUOTE=KingHenrik35;6821060]I think a problem on this team is that it seems like the players where all too content with reading their own press clipings about how they will finish top 3 in the East. They forgot to show up defensivly for pretty much every game after the first two, they even played sloppy at times in the Jersey game, even though they won.

Correct and don't forget both Shanny and Ward claiming that they came to the Rangers because they felt that the team could win the Stanley Cup.

The team is not that much different from last year, in fact it's better. How the team is PLAYING compared to last year is a much different story and that's why the results have been dramatically different.There is close to zero energy on the ice from most players and they just are not mentally sharp. It's easy to blame one or two defenseman for every loss but the fact is the entire team has been making bad mistakes; the mistakes made by defenseman are just more noticed because they often lead to goals. Malik and Rozy are not the only ones; Toots has looked really bad out there and as much as most people around here think that Rachunek has looked pretty good...well it seems like he's on the ice for every goal against.

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10-20-2006, 08:33 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
It's very hard no to wonder (as you have done, Fletch), why Renney was so intent on sending Kaspar a message, but seems to be treating Roszival as if he were fully involved in pre-season and training camp. We already know that Roszival's problems increase with his ice time, but Renney seems absolutely intent upon treating him as his #1 go-to defenseman. Really makes me wonder.
Excellent point, Brook. Off course, there is an easy answer, one that harkens back to last year, but before that is explored again, let's see who get's benched when Ozolinsh returns. However, that notwithstanding, the more it goes on, the more Renney is starting to resemble the coach that was run out of Vancouver.

Renney has to show that he can do more than rely on a goalie to stand on top of his head on a nightly basis and one player to dominate offensively. There has to be more to it than that. Unfortunately for the Rangers, Renney has not shown that he is capable of anything more than captaining a ship that is cruising on autopilot. When he has had to to the piloting himself, the results have not been pretty so far. Or maybe that is the case becuase he has left the ship on autopilot and is simply closing his eyes and praying that eventually the ship will find calmer waters. Either way, not a rosy proposition.

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10-20-2006, 08:41 AM
  #88
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Brooklyn...

it's so difficult to speculate. There is so much more that can go into Renney's thinking. I had mentioned that perhaps there was trade speculation, involving Kaspar, or Rachunek, or Pock, or whomever. Perhaps Renney wanted to see what Pock could provide and thus give Sather a chance to trade Rachunek. Perhaps they were considering sending Kaspar down (if they did, would his salary come off the cap). Perhaps he was trying to kick him in the butt and get him going, which is odd since I don't think any coach has ever needed to take that tactic with Kaspar, whcih makes it even more odd. I mean, if he was out of shape in October, he was out of shamp coming to camp, and despite that, played 5 of 7 preseason games. I understand the importance of getting back into the swing of things, but it seemed as though that may've been a good time to kick his butt.

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10-20-2006, 08:50 AM
  #89
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The defense can and will be improved with some youngsters such as Baranka and Pock. The offense needs creativity with Immonen and the team needs the infusion of youth to keep rebuilding. Once again I'll state this is not a Cup contender. It is a team that will compete for the playoffs which is fine as long as the kids get a chance

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10-20-2006, 08:54 AM
  #90
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Correct and don't forget both Shanny and Ward claiming that they came to the Rangers because they felt that the team could win the Stanley Cup.

The team is not that much different from last year, in fact it's better. How the team is PLAYING compared to last year is a much different story and that's why the results have been dramatically different.There is close to zero energy on the ice from most players and they just are not mentally sharp. It's easy to blame one or two defenseman for every loss but the fact is the entire team has been making bad mistakes; the mistakes made by defenseman are just more noticed because they often lead to goals. Malik and Rozy are not the only ones; Toots has looked really bad out there and as much as most people around here think that Rachunek has looked pretty good...well it seems like he's on the ice for every goal against.[/QUOTE]

I agree, I that the Rangers undoubtedly know whats wrong and now its just a matter of correcting the problem, which I think they can. But as "bad" as people think the Rangers are doing it could always be worse. I have faith

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10-20-2006, 09:02 AM
  #91
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We agree, bathgate

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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
The defense can and will be improved with some youngsters such as Baranka and Pock. The offense needs creativity with Immonen and the team needs the infusion of youth to keep rebuilding. Once again I'll state this is not a Cup contender. It is a team that will compete for the playoffs which is fine as long as the kids get a chance
The defense certainly could not do any worse, so why not see what Baranka & Pock can do if you give them the time? How much worse could the results be? The pointmen on the PP have been all but useless, so why not see what Pock can offer? Why not move Betts down to the 4th line and see what can happen if Immone centers Dawes & Hall or Hollweg?

The problem that Renney will face is what happens if he tries such a thing and the youngsters actually do well. How do you then demote them back down? And make no mistake about it, unless bodies somehow disappear or mass injuries strike, that is exactly what will happen. Multi-million dollar players are not going to become healthy scrathces for long.

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10-20-2006, 04:14 PM
  #92
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I know everyone here wants to see what the young prospects can do but if they are not ready then what's the point of bringing them up to play? Face the facts the team has money tied up in Kaspar, Rozy, Malik and Ward and they're not going to bring in a player who is "maybe" ready and "who can do no worse". You can mentally destroy a career if the player is rushed. Baranka is not going to play better than any of the defenseman that we have in there right now and he certainly won't help the PP - not at this point in time. I hate to say it but the best defenseman that we have in our entire system who can work the PP is named Sandis Ozolinsh.

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10-20-2006, 04:37 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD View Post
I know everyone here wants to see what the young prospects can do but if they are not ready then what's the point of bringing them up to play? Face the facts the team has money tied up in Kaspar, Rozy, Malik and Ward and they're not going to bring in a player who is "maybe" ready and "who can do no worse". You can mentally destroy a career if the player is rushed. Baranka is not going to play better than any of the defenseman that we have in there right now and he certainly won't help the PP - not at this point in time. I hate to say it but the best defenseman that we have in our entire system who can work the PP is named Sandis Ozolinsh.

The people here arent saying that the new players should become starters, but Renney needs to play them for a few games until Malik/Rozival is dealt IF they are going to be.

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10-20-2006, 05:24 PM
  #94
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I know everyone here wants to see what the young prospects can do but if they are not ready then what's the point of bringing them up to play?
A quote that harkens back to the truly bad old days. Not ready? What in Immonen told you that he is not ready to be a third line center? What in Baranka told you that he is not ready to be a 3rd pairing defenseman? Ditto for Pock? They showed that they were ready for such roles in camp. How do you know if they can play those roles at the NHL level unless you give them a shot?
Quote:
Baranka is not going to play better than any of the defenseman that we have in there right now and he certainly won't help the PP - not at this point in time.
I would not be to sure that he would not be better than what it currently being thrown out there. And the problem on the PP is not the personnel, but the strategy.
Quote:
I hate to say it but the best defenseman that we have in our entire system who can work the PP is named Sandis Ozolinsh.
Ozolinsh is not going to help the Rangers where they need help the most. And again, the issues on the PP are not tied into the personnel, but in the excecution and the decision making. The choice to put Straka and Rozsival at the points are Renney's. The PP strategy is also Renney's.

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10-20-2006, 10:41 PM
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A quote that harkens back to the truly bad old days. Not ready? What in Immonen told you that he is not ready to be a third line center? What in Baranka told you that he is not ready to be a 3rd pairing defenseman? Ditto for Pock? They showed that they were ready for such roles in camp. How do you know if they can play those roles at the NHL level unless you give them a shot?

I would not be to sure that he would not be better than what it currently being thrown out there. And the problem on the PP is not the personnel, but the strategy.

Ozolinsh is not going to help the Rangers where they need help the most. And again, the issues on the PP are not tied into the personnel, but in the excecution and the decision making. The choice to put Straka and Rozsival at the points are Renney's. The PP strategy is also Renney's.
Well first I'll point out the things that I agree with..the problem on the PP is not so much the personnel but more the strategy and the execution. Too many guys standing still and waiting for the perfect play while getting no shots on net. I would take what you said here even further by saying that the teams' overall performance is not so much the personnel; which is why I don't feel it's necessary to bring in Baranka just for the sake of bringing in a young player. If you want to bench Malik or Rozy in favor of Pock then fine, but IMO Pock is no better defensively and he's no Lidstrom on the point as of yet either. I hope as the year goes on that this will change but right now he is not an upgrade; if you put him out there with the top lines of the NHL he will get torched.

As far as Immo is concerned - I would like to see him up here but it looks like Dawes would be the one to go back down.

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10-21-2006, 08:25 AM
  #96
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Diehard...

why can't Immo come up and Hossa sit? Have a line of Dawes/Immo/Hall and Hollweg/Betts/Ward?

While I don't like Pock, I think he's one of the better point person's on this team - or I should say in preseason he was an deserved a chance in the regular season - certainly deserved a chance over Rozsival and Straka and even Tyutin. Still can't figure out why we never saw Cullen there either.

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10-21-2006, 09:18 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
why can't Immo come up and Hossa sit? Have a line of Dawes/Immo/Hall and Hollweg/Betts/Ward?

While I don't like Pock, I think he's one of the better point person's on this team - or I should say in preseason he was an deserved a chance in the regular season - certainly deserved a chance over Rozsival and Straka and even Tyutin. Still can't figure out why we never saw Cullen there either.

I laughed when I read this thread. There were probably about 5 Rangers fans last year who ripped Renney and saw his stupdity. I was one of them. When we tried to talk about it, we got so much garbage it was incredible. Now, suddenly, a ton of Rangers fans see the light.

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10-21-2006, 11:05 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
why can't Immo come up and Hossa sit? Have a line of Dawes/Immo/Hall and Hollweg/Betts/Ward?

While I don't like Pock, I think he's one of the better point person's on this team - or I should say in preseason he was an deserved a chance in the regular season - certainly deserved a chance over Rozsival and Straka and even Tyutin. Still can't figure out why we never saw Cullen there either.
If Immo can contribute on the PK then I'd be willing to try it out - maybe he will have some chemistry with Dawes and this will help him a bit. Right now Dawes looks afraid out there and he gets nervous with the puck.

Although our PP looks mediocre - it's our PK and the lack of play from the role players (3rd and 4th lines) that is the major difference this year. Last year our PK was amongst the best in the league and everyone was raving how much of a hard working team we were - this was because our 3rd and 4th lines held their own when they got the chance to play. This year the bottom two lines look out of synch and I'd be more willing to mix things up there as opposed to addressing the defense.

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