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[VAN/NJD] Canucks trade G Cory Schneider to Devils for 9th Overall Pick - Part II

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06-30-2013, 08:30 PM
  #1
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[VAN/NJD] Canucks trade G Cory Schneider to Devils for 9th Overall Pick - Part II

Part 1: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1457919

Continue the hysteria

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06-30-2013, 08:34 PM
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This pretty much confirms that Luongo has negative value, if we had to deal Cory for just the 9th pick. I would have given Luongo away for free if it meant not trading Cory for the 9th pick.

And it also confirms what we all know now. MG screwed up the entire process, pretty much every step of the way. Without much cap space, it will be hard for him to salvage this off-season.

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06-30-2013, 08:34 PM
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The only way this trade doesn't look bad down the road is if Horvat becomes a selke-calibre top 6 forward and/or Schneider isn't nearly as good in Jersey as he was here (which is unlikely IMO).

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06-30-2013, 08:37 PM
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Or if the team remains competitive with Luongo and the young players we drafted as we transition from the Sedin era..

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06-30-2013, 08:38 PM
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As far as I see it, Gillis delivered once again.

Luongo is absolutely still an elite, proven goalie, and trading him away for nothing only to have Schneider for two years before he became a UFA (and then still be subjected to Luongo's cap recapture down the road) was nonsense. They have just as good a shot of winning the cup this year with Luongo as they would have with Schneider, and if it doesn't pan out then the option to give him a compliance buy out next year is still on the table (and that way we would avoid the cap recapture as well). Meanwhile, we picked up a significant asset for the future, and a guy who might even contribute this year.

Do I think Schneider was worth more? Sure, maybe a bit more, but given the corner we were backed into, Gillis did well.


If you think about it, options were:

1) Buy out Luongo: avoid cap recapture, but do not improve chances of winning a cup OR add future value to organization.
2) Trade Luongo: get basically nothing, do NOT avoid cap recapture, do not improve chances of winning a cup OR add future value to organization
3) Trade Schneider: do not improve chances of winning a cup BUT add significant future value to organization, defer the decision on keeping/buying out/trading Luongo until next year. (market may improve, circumstances may change)

Schneider had very little long term value to the organization in terms of youth or future, 2 more good years and then he would just be another UFA getting big money. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but in 2 years our window might be closed and we'll be looking to refresh and get younger, not sign a 28/29 year old to a big UFA contract in the middle of his prime. I watched Horvat play in London a couple times this year, he's outstanding. An absolute workhorse, 16goals in 23 playoffs games, OHL playoff MVP.


Last edited by hungryhungryhippy: 06-30-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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06-30-2013, 08:38 PM
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Obvious the ownership made the decision here. Not much Gillis can do here IMO.

The return is sub-par and the situation is a complete mess here.

Though I do think we desperately need an injection of young high end talent, Schneider was a huge price to pay.

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06-30-2013, 08:39 PM
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It's not as bad of a move as I first thought. Look at the goalie market who was the last goalie to fetch even this high of a return?

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06-30-2013, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
As far as I see it, Gillis delivered once again.

Luongo is absolutely still an elite, proven goalie, and trading him away for nothing only to have Schneider for two years before he became a UFA (and then still be subjected to Luongo's cap recapture down the road) was nonsense. They have just as good a shot of winning the cup this year with Luongo as they would have with Schneider, and if it doesn't pan out then the option to give him a compliance buy out next year is still on the table (and that way we would avoid the cap recapture as well). Meanwhile, we picked up a significant asset for the future, and a guy who might even contribute this year.
This gets repeated over and over again, but honestly, did any of the people claiming this actually watch this team last year?

The gap in performance between Luongo and Schneider was huge. And given their respective ages, it's only going to get bigger.

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06-30-2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
This gets repeated over and over again, but honestly, did any of the people claiming this actually watch this team last year?

The gap in performance between Luongo and Schneider was huge. And given their respective ages, it's only going to get bigger.
I watched probably about half the games last year; pretty busy with school. Goaltending is pretty subjective, but I didn't notice a huge discrepancy...

In the playoffs though, I thought Luongo looked as sharp and confident as I've ever seen him in those first two games against San Jose. And I was incredibly disappointed in Schneider's performances. I know he came in cold, and that justifies it to some extent, but that one goal he gave up in game 3 was the back breaker for the team in my opinion and giving up a goal like that is all about focus and concentration...

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06-30-2013, 08:53 PM
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Gillis is a %^&*....and that's being polite...Lou is thrilled with today's news...Gillis should go back to being a cancer/player agent...

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06-30-2013, 08:53 PM
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This gets repeated over and over again, but honestly, did any of the people claiming this actually watch this team last year?

The gap in performance between Luongo and Schneider was huge. And given their respective ages, it's only going to get bigger.
The gap in their performance has a lot more to do with the team in front of them. Both can steal games and both have been relied upon to do so for long stretches.

The playoffs basically proved that our goalies were essentially interchangeable, both against LA and SJ. If the gulf between their abilities were so large (either way), I'm pretty sure we would have at least pushed those series to 6 games. Neither did either goalie seem able to enable us to win those close 1 goal games that we lost - not surprising since goalies can't score goals which was our real problem.

I don't think Luongo is going to have a problem here. He said he wants to be the starter - where else was he going to be the starter on a team as good as ours? NYI? BUF? NJ couldn't have gotten him because they have their own salary circumvention penalties to deal with.

Having said that, the cap recapture penalty is a big hurdle here. We are going to have to hope that Lu plays out his entire contract.

Of course, I was in the minority who was ok with either guy so I'm not real upset.

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06-30-2013, 08:54 PM
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Devils fan. Is this kid the real deal? I never seen him play besides the few playoff games this year. Is he our Marty replacement or a stop gap?

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06-30-2013, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
As far as I see it, Gillis delivered once again.

Luongo is absolutely still an elite, proven goalie, and trading him away for nothing only to have Schneider for two years before he became a UFA (and then still be subjected to Luongo's cap recapture down the road) was nonsense. They have just as good a shot of winning the cup this year with Luongo as they would have with Schneider, and if it doesn't pan out then the option to give him a compliance buy out next year is still on the table (and that way we would avoid the cap recapture as well). Meanwhile, we picked up a significant asset for the future, and a guy who might even contribute this year.

Do I think Schneider was worth more? Sure, maybe a bit more, but given the corner we were backed into, Gillis did well.


If you think about it, options were:

1) Buy out Luongo: avoid cap recapture, but do not improve chances of winning a cup OR add future value to organization.
2) Trade Luongo: get basically nothing, do NOT avoid cap recapture, do not improve chances of winning a cup OR add future value to organization
3) Trade Schneider: do not improve chances of winning a cup BUT add significant future value to organization, defer the decision on keeping/buying out/trading Luongo until next year. (market may improve, circumstances may change)
.
Or maybe if MG had traded Luongo for any value much earlier, he wouldn't have been backed into this situation. Instead, he was being stubborn trying to extract value when it wasn't there.

I really don't see MG being around after next season.

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06-30-2013, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
As far as I see it, Gillis delivered once again.

Luongo is absolutely still an elite, proven goalie, and trading him away for nothing only to have Schneider for two years before he became a UFA (and then still be subjected to Luongo's cap recapture down the road) was nonsense. They have just as good a shot of winning the cup this year with Luongo as they would have with Schneider, and if it doesn't pan out then the option to give him a compliance buy out next year is still on the table (and that way we would avoid the cap recapture as well). Meanwhile, we picked up a significant asset for the future, and a guy who might even contribute this year.

Do I think Schneider was worth more? Sure, maybe a bit more, but given the corner we were backed into, Gillis did well.


If you think about it, options were:

1) Buy out Luongo: avoid cap recapture, but do not improve chances of winning a cup OR add future value to organization.
2) Trade Luongo: get basically nothing, do NOT avoid cap recapture, do not improve chances of winning a cup OR add future value to organization
3) Trade Schneider: do not improve chances of winning a cup BUT add significant future value to organization, defer the decision on keeping/buying out/trading Luongo until next year. (market may improve, circumstances may change)

Schneider had very little long term value to the organization in terms of youth or future, 2 more good years and then he would just be another UFA getting big money. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but in 2 years our window might be closed and we'll be looking to refresh and get younger, not sign a 28/29 year old to a big UFA contract in the middle of his prime. I watched Horvat play in London a couple times this year, he's outstanding. An absolute workhorse, 16goals in 23 playoffs games, OHL playoff MVP.
How can you say that? Schneider has outperformed Luongo each and every season. He's clearly a far better goalie right now. Loungo had his worst year since his rookie season. Still elite - no way. He's an average goalie now. If the goal was to make this team better now then this was an atrocious decision. It may be slightly better for the future, but if our new prospects will only be ready when the Sedins are phasing out, what's the point?

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06-30-2013, 08:59 PM
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Devils fan. Is this kid the real deal? I never seen him play besides the few playoff games this year. Is he our Marty replacement or a stop gap?
Potential to be a top 5 goalie in the league IMO. Problem is that he hasn't had a lot of games to show he can withstand an entire season as a starter.

His numbers are as good as Reimer's for example - the difference is that Schneids plays a lot bigger, has great explosiveness and mobility, and is top notch from a technical perspective.

Reimer and many other goalies have stats, but Schneider to me also passes the eyeball test - he's extremely talented and a good athlete. He's also got a great attitude and has already proven to be a good professional.

Schneider has also already shown in the playoffs that he can come in and absolutely do well - his three starts last year against L.A. were stellar, and he's shown no blow-up tendencies so far.

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06-30-2013, 08:59 PM
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I was for trading Schneider, but for good-to-great players that can help us now. Looks like Lamoriello knew that the only other team is Edmonton meaning Gillis had no choice but to take the single pick.

I'm a Gillis fan but this is comical. Years of saying that there's a market for Luongo and pegging Schneider as the goalie of the future, the need to get younger, and then the 180 today.

It is a great organization and things out of control will happen, but, please, less shooting itself in the foot.

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06-30-2013, 09:00 PM
  #17
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Devils fan. Is this kid the real deal? I never seen him play besides the few playoff games this year. Is he our Marty replacement or a stop gap?
He's the real deal. Numbers don't lie. Watching his technique will just make you more of a believer.

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06-30-2013, 09:00 PM
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The only way this trade doesn't look bad down the road is if Horvat becomes a selke-calibre top 6 forward and/or Schneider isn't nearly as good in Jersey as he was here (which is unlikely IMO).
The only way this trade doesn't look bad is if the Canucks win the Cup with Lu. If not, it will never ever end.

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06-30-2013, 09:01 PM
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Devils fan. Is this kid the real deal? I never seen him play besides the few playoff games this year. Is he our Marty replacement or a stop gap?
He is an absolute beast. His positioning is outstanding and he is so damn calm. He is also extremely well spoken. Watch some of his impressions on youtube. Too good.


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06-30-2013, 09:05 PM
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He sounds amazing. Hopefully horvat works for you guys, and congrats on stealing shinkaruk. Love the pnw and will someday visit your beautiful city.

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06-30-2013, 09:05 PM
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I wonder if the Devils let him play like a butterfly goalie or ruin another one trying to make him play like Marty.

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06-30-2013, 09:06 PM
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Im glad Schneider is gone. There is no room for nervous players who will cramp up and become nervous enough that they cant play during the playoffs. Only having 1 win out of 5 in the playoffs with an atrocious last 2 performances is not gonna win you the Stanley cup. Lu brought us to game 7 of the SCF, and if the team could score,we would already have a cup.

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06-30-2013, 09:07 PM
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Devils fan. Is this kid the real deal? I never seen him play besides the few playoff games this year. Is he our Marty replacement or a stop gap?
He's outstanding. Vezina calibre..........and a great person.

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06-30-2013, 09:08 PM
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Im glad Schneider is gone. There is no room for nervous players who will cramp up and become nervous enough that they cant play during the playoffs. Only having 1 win out of 5 in the playoffs with an atrocious last 2 performances is not gonna win you the Stanley cup. Lu brought us to game 7 of the SCF, and if the team could score,we would already have a cup.
The last 2 games he played he was hurt. Prior to that his playoff performances - for a young goaltender with no experience - were outstanding. Get your head out of dark places.

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06-30-2013, 09:08 PM
  #25
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Obvious the ownership made the decision here. Not much Gillis can do here IMO.
That excuse works the first time ownership "requests" you do something stupid.

After years of it, however, it's not an excuse, and it's time to realize you've become Garth Snow.

 
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