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Round 1, Pick #11: Samuel Morin, Defense, Rimouski (QMJHL)

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06-30-2013, 10:35 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
The problem with Morin is that his late rise was due to his playoffs - a whopping 7 game sample. Also his play at the U18 where he was playing less than 13:00 minutes a game was apparently a factor. That's it. We're riding our 11th choice on the hopes that the 7 game sample is where his real potential lies. That's insane, but what do we expect when our owner said Steve Mason's 7 games is not a small sample? This is too high risk of a pick at 11.
Yup that's all they based it on.

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06-30-2013, 10:36 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
It's a hard thing to answer.

I like Morrissey as the better prospect and a better overall fit to what the Flyers need...

However, knowing that we got Hagg changes things.

I don't like any of the SDDs in my tier 4, which really means that I don't like Santini.

Morin + Hagg

is better than

Morrissey + Santini

if we were looking to get both a potential PMD and potential SDD.

Morrissey + Morin

would have made this my favorite draft ever.

Oh well.
I think Hagg will be the best out of all of them, but Morrissey could really become a superstar. He has offensive skills you really cant teach.

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06-30-2013, 10:36 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
your statement was still WRONG!!! Dmen were "flying off the pbard" as you state, that's just false. There is no way in hell at the time of our pick that you could state that dmen were "flying off the board". Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20. You can't sit here AFTER the fact and say he didn't reach and that he had "forsight because dmen were flying off the board". Hell if you want ot use hindsight then we should have selected Shea Weber back in 3002 instead of Richards seeing how Weber didn't get drafted until the 2nd round.

At the time of the pick and who was off the board at that time, there is no way in hell you can say "It was a good pick".

The fact remains that homer didn't even call Nashville to even inquire about trading up. The fact that Nashville made their selection so fast meant that they WEREN'T in talks with anyone about them trading back. Homer SHOULD have made a bold move to try and get the ONLY dman with the realistic potential to become an impact player on the blueline and he didn't. That's a failure on his behalf.
Jeez, what are you talking about? An opinion, like what defines "flying off the board", cant be wrong. A lot of people thought either Nurse or Risto would still be available by 11 and they were both gone by 8.

A lot of defensemen went a lot earlier than people thought; most drafts it's forwards that are scooped up first. I think it's safe to say they were going a lot faster than people anticipated and trading back potentially meant losing out on Morin.

Calm down.

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06-30-2013, 10:37 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
We still don't have a future #1 dman anywhere in our organization. We don't even have a potential top pairing PMD anywhere in sight.
Thanks nostrodamus.

I'm sure when guys like PK Subban and Weber went in the middle of the second round people said these guys will never be #1s either.

NOBODY on this planet knows with certainty what 18yr olds will become when they become adult pros.

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06-30-2013, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
The problem with Morin is that his late rise was due to his playoffs - a whopping 7 game sample. Also his play at the U18 where he was playing less than 13:00 minutes a game was apparently a factor. That's it. We're riding our 11th choice on the hopes that the 7 game sample is where his real potential lies. That's insane, but what do we expect when our owner said Steve Mason's 7 games is not a small sample? This is too high risk of a pick at 11.
I think the NHL world liked Morin more for the fact that he's a fantastic skater for a 6'6 beast, he has some of the best footwork I've seen on a man that size, and he has all the IQ necessary to put it all together.

Morin is a very intelligent player, perhaps one of the brightest in the class per scouting.

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06-30-2013, 10:39 PM
  #206
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i think a lot of people are selling Morin short (pun intended). I think the fact that he's risen this high since midterm rankings speaks for the untapped potential that the Flyers organization saw in him. He has very high hockey IQ, he can really move for a big man, and he handles the puck with a calm about him. I think people are assuming he's purely a shutdown, defensive defenseman, but i see a lot of untapped offensive potential in him. The fact that Chris Pronger likely had a hand in getting this kid drafted says a lot in my mind. I think this kid has the potential to really put his game together here over the next couple years and i think he has the potential to be a top pairing defenseman when all is said and done. However, i think there's also a chance that he may pan out to be nothing more than a Nicklas Grossmann/Hal Gill type guy with better mobility...

I think he's definitely an NHL player though, at what capacity is the question. His size/hockey IQ and skating ability alone lend itself to that...

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06-30-2013, 10:40 PM
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Yup that's all they based it on.
Look at the rankings and you will see that is exactly what happened. He was 44th in March on Craig Button's list. He then moved him up to 32 in April. He then found himself 13th in June (there were no May rankings). What are the only two events during that time? The playoffs and the U18.

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06-30-2013, 10:40 PM
  #208
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Would most of you preferred Morrissey?
I would have. I think he is a safe bet to be a top notch point getting D man.

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06-30-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I did. When Risto was taken Morrissey was my guy.
Me too.

When Ristolainen was taken, I was hoping to move back and get Morrissey and Morin.

However, I'm pretty thankful we didn't go for that.

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06-30-2013, 10:41 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think the NHL world liked Morin more for the fact that he's a fantastic skater for a 6'6 beast, he has some of the best footwork I've seen on a man that size, and he has all the IQ necessary to put it all together.

Morin is a very intelligent player, perhaps one of the brightest in the class per scouting.
Except ISS listed his footwork as his biggest weakness

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06-30-2013, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Look at the rankings and you will see that is exactly what happened. He was 44th in March on Craig Button's list. He then moved him up to 32 in April. He then found himself 13th in June (there were no May rankings). What are the only two events during that time? The playoffs and the U18.
You know Craig Button is not our GM right?

Maybe its possible that the Flyers liked what they saw from Morin... all year long? Maybe? No?

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06-30-2013, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Except ISS listed his footwork as his biggest weakness
Didn't the draft crew point out his footwork as a strength. I'm pretty sure Pronger or Holmgren mentioned it in an article as well.

From what I've seen, I've loved his footwork and mobility at 6'6 playing against shiftier forwards.

He's obviously not as agile as your 5'10 dangler, but he uses his size and angles to cut that off. His pivot seems really solid as well.

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06-30-2013, 10:43 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He's was my 5th defenseman. Hagg was my 7th (Mueller in the middle and Morrissey at 4. Zadorov was 8.)

I don't think we did too bad.

In retrospect, we were all just really pissed that we missed out on Nurse and Ristolainen.

However, the same reasons we wanted them at 11 are the same reasons they got scooped up at 7 and 8.
Chris, no disrespect intended but you don't even watch these guys play live. At best you watch a few videos of these guys and pass yourself off as an "expert" while you are as clueless as any of the rest of us. CG knows a hell of a lot more about them than you ever will and I'm personally tired of your condescending demeanor. I too can read up on these prospects and I've yet to see anything on any dman available when we picked that suggests that there was a top pairing guy available.

NOBODY who scouted these guys projects any of them except for Jones to be a legit top pairing guy.

Everyone agrees that we need help for our defense in the future (ie - dmen prospects) but what do we really need??? We have Coburn, still young, a solid defensive dman, we have Schenn, a physical defensive dman, we have Grossman, a solid bottom 4 defensive, shot blocking dman. What are we missing??? A legit good PMD with offensive upside. Did we get that in Morin?? **** no!!!! We got another big physical defensive minded dman. We still have a ****ing hole in generating offensve from the blueline and moving the puck out of the zone. The only long term future we have on the blueline in that role is freaking Gustafsson and while I really like him, we can only hope that he tops out at becoming a legit 2nd pairing guy in that mold and he's not even close to being that right now.

This selection has failure written all over it. Not because Morin will be a bust but because it DIDN'T address any freaking needs at all. Hell, we would have been better served to draft another forward than a type of dman that we DIDN'T need more of.

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06-30-2013, 10:43 PM
  #214
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Jeez, what are you talking about? An opinion, like what defines "flying off the board", cant be wrong. A lot of people thought either Nurse or Risto would still be available by 11 and they were both gone by 8.

A lot of defensemen went a lot earlier than people thought; most drafts it's forwards that are scooped up first. I think it's safe to say they were going a lot faster than people anticipated and trading back potentially meant losing out on Morin.

Calm down.
Well, they didn't listen to me and tank, or we could've had Jones at 4. If Simon Nolet says 'Cest Morin' I'm good with that. He's going to be great for us.

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06-30-2013, 10:45 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Except ISS listed his footwork as his biggest weakness
his footwork is so-so from what i've seen. his skating and his athleticism is great though, and footwork is something that can be learned and improved upon, especially when you have good speed and skating technique. you're forgetting this kid is 6'7'' and still only 17 years old... he needs time to grow into his body and is still likely very awkward. i'm 6'5'' and was awkward until i was like 21... his footwork is the least of my concerns, i think he'll get that. what I'm interested to see is if an offensive game will come with growth, experience and confidence, much like Dougie Hamilton did in his 2nd junior season at the same age Morin will be in his 3rd.

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06-30-2013, 10:46 PM
  #216
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Chris, no disrespect intended but you don't even watch these guys play live. At best you watch a few videos of these guys and pass yourself off as an "expert" while you are as clueless as any of the rest of us. CG knows a hell of a lot more about them than you ever will and I'm personally tired of your condescending demeanor. I too can read up on these prospects and I've yet to see anything on any dman available when we picked that suggests that there was a top pairing guy available.

NOBODY who scouted these guys projects any of them except for Jones to be a legit top pairing guy.

Everyone agrees that we need help for our defense in the future (ie - dmen prospects) but what do we really need??? We have Coburn, still young, a solid defensive dman, we have Schenn, a physical defensive dman, we have Grossman, a solid bottom 4 defensive, shot blocking dman. What are we missing??? A legit good PMD with offensive upside. Did we get that in Morin?? **** no!!!! We got another big physical defensive minded dman. We still have a ****ing hole in generating offensve from the blueline and moving the puck out of the zone. The only long term future we have on the blueline in that role is freaking Gustafsson and while I really like him, we can only hope that he tops out at becoming a legit 2nd pairing guy in that mold and he's not even close to being that right now.

This selection has failure written all over it. Not because Morin will be a bust but because it DIDN'T address any freaking needs at all. Hell, we would have been better served to draft another forward than a type of dman that we DIDN'T need more of.
And any player that we would have drafted today would not have filled that "need" right now anyway. Who knows what the state of the roster is in 4-5 years when Morin MIGHT be ready to be a "top 4" guy.

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06-30-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Didn't the draft crew point out his footwork as a strength. I'm pretty sure Pronger or Holmgren mentioned it in an article as well.

From what I've seen, I've loved his footwork and mobility at 6'6 playing against shiftier forwards.

He's obviously not as agile as your 5'10 dangler, but he uses his size and angles to cut that off. His pivot seems really solid as well.
I have not heard what they said, but keep in mind Holmgren once claimed Klotz was a great skater. This is what ISS had to say:

Quote:
He has a lot of natural ability and upside. He is still maturing into his two-way style of play... and is still very raw. Morin isn't as physically imposing or dominant as he should be to the outside. Good skater for size but footwork still seems to be biggest weakness defensively. Has pretty good offensive instincts, coupled with solid defensive awareness and physical play. Could be a stud if he puts it all together... a very intriguing prospect.
NHL Potential:
2nd pairing defender who can play special teams.
http://www.defendingbigd.com/2013/6/...ng-report-2013

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06-30-2013, 10:47 PM
  #218
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I'm using Bob McKenzie's rankings here.

Morin: 17th (11th)
Morrissey: 28th (13th)
Pulock: 23rd (15th)
Zadorov: 11th (16th)
Mueller: 16th (18th)
Theodore: 44th (26th)

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06-30-2013, 10:47 PM
  #219
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Chris, no disrespect intended but you don't even watch these guys play live. At best you watch a few videos of these guys and pass yourself off as an "expert" while you are as clueless as any of the rest of us. CG knows a hell of a lot more about them than you ever will and I'm personally tired of your condescending demeanor. I too can read up on these prospects and I've yet to see anything on any dman available when we picked that suggests that there was a top pairing guy available.

NOBODY who scouted these guys projects any of them except for Jones to be a legit top pairing guy.

Everyone agrees that we need help for our defense in the future (ie - dmen prospects) but what do we really need??? We have Coburn, still young, a solid defensive dman, we have Schenn, a physical defensive dman, we have Grossman, a solid bottom 4 defensive, shot blocking dman. What are we missing??? A legit good PMD with offensive upside. Did we get that in Morin?? **** no!!!! We got another big physical defensive minded dman. We still have a ****ing hole in generating offensve from the blueline and moving the puck out of the zone. The only long term future we have on the blueline in that role is freaking Gustafsson and while I really like him, we can only hope that he tops out at becoming a legit 2nd pairing guy in that mold and he's not even close to being that right now.

This selection has failure written all over it. Not because Morin will be a bust but because it DIDN'T address any freaking needs at all. Hell, we would have been better served to draft another forward than a type of dman that we DIDN'T need more of.
God, this is just word vomit. I'm going to assume this massive block of incoherent blarhlkahrsg can be summed up by this:

The Flyers did not address their needs with this pick.


And to that point I will say, how the hell do you know what the Flyers needs will be when Morin/Morrissey/Zadorov/Pulock break into the NHL?

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06-30-2013, 10:47 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Chris, no disrespect intended but you don't even watch these guys play live. At best you watch a few videos of these guys and pass yourself off as an "expert" while you are as clueless as any of the rest of us. CG knows a hell of a lot more about them than you ever will and I'm personally tired of your condescending demeanor. I too can read up on these prospects and I've yet to see anything on any dman available when we picked that suggests that there was a top pairing guy available.

NOBODY who scouted these guys projects any of them except for Jones to be a legit top pairing guy.

Everyone agrees that we need help for our defense in the future (ie - dmen prospects) but what do we really need??? We have Coburn, still young, a solid defensive dman, we have Schenn, a physical defensive dman, we have Grossman, a solid bottom 4 defensive, shot blocking dman. What are we missing??? A legit good PMD with offensive upside. Did we get that in Morin?? **** no!!!! We got another big physical defensive minded dman. We still have a ****ing hole in generating offensve from the blueline and moving the puck out of the zone. The only long term future we have on the blueline in that role is freaking Gustafsson and while I really like him, we can only hope that he tops out at becoming a legit 2nd pairing guy in that mold and he's not even close to being that right now.

This selection has failure written all over it. Not because Morin will be a bust but because it DIDN'T address any freaking needs at all. Hell, we would have been better served to draft another forward than a type of dman that we DIDN'T need more of.
Thats the point of drafting BPA...What if in 3 years when Morin is ready we have addressed that PMD need through trades/free agency? You always take the guy you feel is best available because that suits you better in the long run. Whether you feel Morin was the best available, which most likely isnt the case, he could end up being the best defensemen drafted outside of the top 10. I still would have picked Morrissey, but theres a reason you dont draft for "needs".

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06-30-2013, 10:49 PM
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Always been a fan I hope he develops nicely.

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06-30-2013, 10:50 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Chris, no disrespect intended but you don't even watch these guys play live. At best you watch a few videos of these guys and pass yourself off as an "expert" while you are as clueless as any of the rest of us.
I probably watch more than you think. And also, never did I pretend my opinion was more valid than anyone else's here. Why do you assume I do? Because my name is green, and I have the balls to say exactly what I think.

I can tell by the next bit though that the disrespect was intended, so I'll carry on.

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CG knows a hell of a lot more about them than you ever will and I'm personally tired of your condescending demeanor.
What the hell does CG know?

I never pretended that I know more than her or less than her. Nor do I care what she knows.

How'd she get thrown into this conversation anyway?

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I too can read up on these prospects and I've yet to see anything on any dman available when we picked that suggests that there was a top pairing guy available.
Cool.

I've yet to read anything that suggests that anybody outside of Jones, Nurse, or Ristolainen is a top pairing guy. Jones 1st and the other two as possibles at best.

I'm also pretty much there too.

Don't know why you're up in arms about it.

I think the potential is there, but I don't much like our chances. Obviously you haven't been paying much attention to what I've said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
NOBODY who scouted these guys projects any of them except for Jones to be a legit top pairing guy.

Everyone agrees that we need help for our defense in the future (ie - dmen prospects) but what do we really need??? We have Coburn, still young, a solid defensive dman, we have Schenn, a physical defensive dman, we have Grossman, a solid bottom 4 defensive, shot blocking dman. What are we missing??? A legit good PMD with offensive upside. Did we get that in Morin?? **** no!!!! We got another big physical defensive minded dman. We still have a ****ing hole in generating offensve from the blueline and moving the puck out of the zone. The only long term future we have on the blueline in that role is freaking Gustafsson and while I really like him, we can only hope that he tops out at becoming a legit 2nd pairing guy in that mold and he's not even close to being that right now.

This selection has failure written all over it. Not because Morin will be a bust but because it DIDN'T address any freaking needs at all. Hell, we would have been better served to draft another forward than a type of dman that we DIDN'T need more of.
Go home Phlocky. You're drunk.

I'm not going to take your insults seriously because I pretty much assume you are actually drunk.

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06-30-2013, 10:51 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Chris, no disrespect intended but you don't even watch these guys play live. At best you watch a few videos of these guys and pass yourself off as an "expert" while you are as clueless as any of the rest of us. CG knows a hell of a lot more about them than you ever will and I'm personally tired of your condescending demeanor. I too can read up on these prospects and I've yet to see anything on any dman available when we picked that suggests that there was a top pairing guy available.

NOBODY who scouted these guys projects any of them except for Jones to be a legit top pairing guy.

Everyone agrees that we need help for our defense in the future (ie - dmen prospects) but what do we really need??? We have Coburn, still young, a solid defensive dman, we have Schenn, a physical defensive dman, we have Grossman, a solid bottom 4 defensive, shot blocking dman. What are we missing??? A legit good PMD with offensive upside. Did we get that in Morin?? **** no!!!! We got another big physical defensive minded dman. We still have a ****ing hole in generating offensve from the blueline and moving the puck out of the zone. The only long term future we have on the blueline in that role is freaking Gustafsson and while I really like him, we can only hope that he tops out at becoming a legit 2nd pairing guy in that mold and he's not even close to being that right now.

This selection has failure written all over it. Not because Morin will be a bust but because it DIDN'T address any freaking needs at all. Hell, we would have been better served to draft another forward than a type of dman that we DIDN'T need more of.
maybe the flyers felt that Morin was the bpa? i think you're analyzing it too much. Maybe they have something up their sleeve before the season starts?

plus you just contradicted yourself, claiming that someone is as clueless as the rest of us, then going on to pinpoint what you're so sure morin will be. Maybe he develops more of an offensive game. we don't know. The fact that pulock, morrissey etc. were on the board when we picked Morin doesn't really make me that angry about the pick, because while i like those guys, I'm not really that sure that any of those guys will be more effective players than morin.

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06-30-2013, 10:52 PM
  #224
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I have not heard what they said, but keep in mind Holmgren once claimed Klotz was a great skater. This is what ISS had to say:



http://www.defendingbigd.com/2013/6/...ng-report-2013
I have seen so many conflicting reports on so many of these prospects.

Some scouts will watch a player and see X. Others will watch and see Y.

The consistent themes seem to be:

+Great straight line speed
+High hockey IQ
+Excellent stick word
+Lights out in the D zone

-Very raw offensive game
-Has trouble with smaller, shiftier forwards

I think that's all we have to go on until we watch him play for an extended period of time.

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06-30-2013, 10:54 PM
  #225
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I have seen so many conflicting reports on so many of these prospects.

Some scouts will watch a player and see X. Others will watch and see Y.

The consistent themes seem to be:

+Great straight line speed
+High hockey IQ
+Excellent stick word
+Lights out in the D zone

-Very raw offensive game
-Has trouble with smaller, shiftier forwards

I think that's all we have to go on until we watch him play for an extended period of time.
Yep. Morin is the exact type of player that we really can't formulate a solid opinion on until we see how he develops. In reality, he's so raw that we can't even say that he'll be a ______ defenseman. He certainly could develop an offensive game between now and when he cracks the nhl lineup.

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