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06-30-2013, 10:37 PM
  #1
Classic Devil
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What to do with all our defensemen?

This came up in the Santini thread, but I think it probably deserves its own (and doesn't really belong there):

New Jersey's Defenseman Depth:

NHL (7 under contract)
Andy Greene
Adam Larsson
Marek Zidlicky
Mark Fayne
Bryce Salvador
Anton Volchenkov
Peter Harrold

Professional (7 under NHL contract)
Alexander Urbom
Eric Gelinas
Jonathan Merrill
Brandon Burlon
Seth Helgeson
Reece Scarlett
Harry Young
[Raman Hrabarenka]
[Corbin McPherson]
[Stefan Stepanov]

CHL/NCAA (1 under contract)
Damon Severson (may be AHL eligible, I'm not sure)
Steve Santini (going to be a freshman in Boston)
Curtis Gedig (returning for his senior year at OSU by all reports)
Joe Faust (probably a bust)

So, Harry Young probably ends up in the ECHL again, and Dan Kelly and Matt Corrente will both probably be allowed to go off into the wilderness of unrestricted free agency. That still leaves us with 6, maybe 7 defensemen who should be in the AHL (depending on where Severson goes). Albany has three defensemen under contract (Hrabarenka, Stepanov, and MacPherson - who we drafted in the third round but apparently never signed to an ELC). Hrabarenka and MacPherson are both legit NHL prospects, Stepanov I have no idea, Albany added him late last season.

We might in theory have Scarlett, Severson, and Helgeson start next season in the ECHL - either that, or repeat last seasons game of musical chairs and have ten defenseman on Albany's roster. This is a problem even if we trade all of Volchenkov, Tallinder, and Salvador and bring up three kids.


Last edited by Classic Devil: 07-10-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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06-30-2013, 10:37 PM
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06-30-2013, 10:42 PM
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EnglishDevil
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Posted something similar in the other thread, but i'm pretty certain we could move Salvador for SOMETHING. We're obviously not using a compliance buyout this year, and moving Volchenkov just seems unrealistic to me.

Salvador on the other hand probably could be moved, the FA pool on defence isn't too spectacular, i'm sure someone would bite for a late round pick, maybe if we retain 1M or something? Either that or trade him for an overpaid/underachieving forward of similar or less value with equal or less years remaining.

Give Volchenkov another year and see if his play improves, if not compliance him next off-season. He's got no excuses, especially with what should be massively improved goaltending.

I'd be happy enough with:

Tallinder - Larsson
Greene - Fayne
Free Agent / Prospect - Volchenkov
Harrold

Give Urbom/Gelinas a chance or see if Zidlicky or someone will re-sign on the cheap.

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06-30-2013, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
This came up in the Santini thread, but I think it probably deserves its own (and doesn't really belong there):

New Jersey's Defenseman Depth:

NHL (6)
Andy Greene
Adam Larsson
Mark Fayne
Henrik Tallinder
Bryce Salvador
Anton Volchenkov
*Marek Zidlicky (I expect him to walk)
*Peter Harrold (I expect him to be back)

Professional (7)
Alexander Urbom
Eric Gelinas
Jonathan Merrill
Brandon Burlon
Seth Helgeson
Reece Scarlett
Harry Young (ECHL)
*Dan Kelly
*Matt Corrente

CHL/NCAA
Damon Severson (may be AHL eligible, I'm not sure)
Steve Santini (going to be a freshman in Boston)
Curtis Gedig (returning for his senior year at OSU by all reports)
Joe Faust (probably a bust)

So, Harry Young probably ends up in the ECHL again, and Dan Kelly and Matt Corrente will both probably be allowed to go off into the wilderness of unrestricted free agency. That still leaves us with 6, maybe 7 defensemen who should be in the AHL (depending on where Severson goes). Albany has three defensemen under contract (Hrabarenka, Stepanov, and MacPherson - who we drafted in the third round but apparently never signed to an ELC). Hrabarenka and MacPherson are both legit NHL prospects, Stepanov I have no idea, Albany added him late last season.

We might in theory have Scarlett, Severson, and Helgeson start next season in the ECHL - either that, or repeat last seasons game of musical chairs and have ten defenseman on Albany's roster. This is a problem even if we trade all of Volchenkov, Tallinder, and Salvador and bring up three kids.
Locks for starting NHL roster: Greene, Larsson and Fayne
I can see Harrold grabbing a spot as well, especially if Zidlicky isn't back because we'd sorely need a puck moving d-man.
That leaves Tallinder, Salvador and Volchenkov for two remaining starting spots and one reserve. Not the greatest to have that much salary on the bench but it's not the end of the world. Preferably, one of the three is traded or bought out.

Urbom, Gelinas, Merril, Burlon, Hegleson and Scarlett start in the AHL. That's probably the order I'd call them up as well if we have any injuries.

Harry Young, Dan Kelly, and Corrente to wherever (ECHL/UFA).
Severson preferably back to the CHL for one more year.

Long-term, I'd like to see at least two of the three veterans gone next year so we can give Urbom, Gelinas and Merril shots. Or two of those packaged together for a top-6 forward.

EDIT: oh.. didn't realize they have 3 defensemen already on the AHL roster. Well.. crap. Incoming trade, please.

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06-30-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EnglishDevil View Post
Posted something similar in the other thread, but i'm pretty certain we could move Salvador for SOMETHING. We're obviously not using a compliance buyout this year, and moving Volchenkov just seems unrealistic to me.

Salvador on the other hand probably could be moved, the FA pool on defence isn't too spectacular, i'm sure someone would bite for a late round pick, maybe if we retain 1M or something? Either that or trade him for an overpaid/underachieving forward of similar or less value with equal or less years remaining.

Give Volchenkov another year and see if his play improves, if not compliance him next off-season. He's got no excuses, especially with what should be massively improved goaltending.

I'd be happy enough with:

Tallinder - Larsson
Greene - Fayne
Free Agent / Prospect - Volchenkov
Harrold

Give Urbom/Gelinas a chance or see if Zidlicky or someone will re-sign on the cheap.
This is my ideal situation too, although you've still got a major log-jam down the line.

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06-30-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
This is my ideal situation too, although you've still got a major log-jam down the line.
Quite honestly more worried about our AHL line-up than our NHL line-up. I don't want any of the kids sitting in Albany and I'm not sure if there's a solution to that without a trade.

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06-30-2013, 10:46 PM
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Some of them will get traded as they become NHL ready. Look for us to be reputed as a defenceman factory again. That said, we have to pick carefully to make sure we keep the best ones for ourselves and get good value back for the others.

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06-30-2013, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Quite honestly more worried about our AHL line-up than our NHL line-up. I don't want any of the kids sitting in Albany and I'm not sure if there's a solution to that without a trade.
This is my principle concern. Albany signed Stepanov last season and then he only actually played one game.

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06-30-2013, 10:51 PM
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IMO there's really only one thing to do - package Fayne + Gelinas/Urbom + Kinkaid/Burlon/Tedenby/Josefson for a prime scoring winger. Elias is at the very end of his career, Clarkson may be gone, Parise and Sykora still haven't been replaced, and after today it's clear we didn't add any potential future replacements through the draft. Lou adsolutely has to trade for a prime scorer (and likely add a UFA as well) or we're a perenial non-playoff team.

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06-30-2013, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
This is my ideal situation too, although you've still got a major log-jam down the line.
Unfortunately true, but i think at this point that's the most realistic remedy to the situation, it buys us a little flexibility and breathing room for at least this upcoming season.

However unlikely, Volchenkov could improve dramatically in this upcoming season and perhaps find himself with at least some value again in the next off-season, at which point we could unload him without having to use the compliance buyout. That would likely be the ideal scenario at this point.

Either way at this point in time it seems readily apparent that keeping both Salvador and Volchenkov on the team is not only redundant but likely detrimental to both our performance on the ice and the further development of our prospects who need to be given a chance to demonstrate what they can do and compete for places.

One of them has to be gone this off-season, Salvador is the only one i can see being even slightly amenable to at least a few teams, purely because of the relatively short length of his contract and the fact we'd take virtually nothing in return. He's not awful, nor is he vastly overpaid. If we retained roughly $1m i'm sure we'd get some takers.

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06-30-2013, 10:53 PM
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All I know is..

god damn does it feel like the New Jersey Devils again..

top goalie.. defensive depth..

quite at home here

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06-30-2013, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tretyak 20 View Post
IMO there's really only one thing to do - package Fayne + Gelinas/Urbom + Kinkaid/Burlon/Tedenby/Josefson for a prime scoring winger. Elias is at the very end of his career, Clarkson may be gone, Parise and Sykora still haven't been replaced, and after today it's clear we didn't add any potential future replacements through the draft. Lou adsolutely has to trade for a prime scorer (and likely add a UFA as well) or we're a perenial non-playoff team.
+1

Although I'd try to include Sal in there. Put the "C" on the jersey of someone who's actually going to be here, and clear up some cap space.

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06-30-2013, 10:54 PM
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gotta flip some of the d prospects for forward prospects or just nhl ready forwards. Severson in the ECHL is stupid use of that asset.

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06-30-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
All I know is..

god damn does it feel like the New Jersey Devils again..

top goalie.. defensive depth..

quite at home here
The depth used to be at the top of the chart, not in the middle.

Although you have to start somewhere.

... actually, it used to be at both the top and the middle.

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06-30-2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
The depth used to be at the top of the chart, not in the middle.

Although you have to start somewhere.

... actually, it used to be at both the top and the middle.
Yep, gotta start somewhere. We're likely never going to see the defensive depth we put together in the early 00s but it's certainly feeling more and more like a Devils team of old after quite a few years of high-profile forwards (the Gomezs, Parises and Kovalchuks) running the show.

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06-30-2013, 11:34 PM
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06-30-2013, 11:51 PM
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There has to be a recipe for minced defensemen pie, with some chianti.

I just don't see Sal getting traded one year into a 3-year deal and the C on his chest.

I think Urbom and Gelinas are the keys. I don't want to see Gelinas go, but these are the guys that might net the team a similar prospect at the Fwd spot. Rookie or second year player that might have 25-30 goal potential someday but is not quit there yet. Heck, Urbom for MPS straight up might be enticing. Not sure EDM does it or how shiny a prospect MPS still is, but that kind of trade I can see happening along with UFA signing.

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07-01-2013, 12:28 AM
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I am scared about Tallinder playing full time again. In his whole time here, he alternates in 20 game spurts between worst player on the ice and our best dman.

He played OK the last time he did play so people are OK with him right now, but he can get dicey in a hurry.

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07-01-2013, 12:30 AM
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We should start playing with 2 forwards and 3 D. Fixes both our lack of forward depth and out excess of D.

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07-01-2013, 12:51 AM
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I am scared about Tallinder playing full time again. In his whole time here, he alternates in 20 game spurts between worst player on the ice and our best dman.

He played OK the last time he did play so people are OK with him right now, but he can get dicey in a hurry.
I actually HATED him when he came back in after being scratched. He played some of the worst games I've seen a Devils defenseman play in the last few years, earlier in the season. Like Mark Fraser bad. One game against the Isles where he was being abused by Tavares, and another game against the Caps where Ovechkin, and scrubs were abusing him.

He was sat after that game, and then came back in and was pretty damn good I thought. He then got injured, but when he returned he was solid again. I can honestly say that I don't even think I had one complaint with him again this season after those two games. I actually felt extremely confident with him after that.

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07-01-2013, 12:54 AM
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Yard Sale?
I agree. Put a big sign out in front of The Rock and the currency isn't dollars but forwards. Do it Lou!!!!

I mean its the only thing to do. Make your bets on who you think will pan out and trade away for what you can on those you don't.

I agree though I just don't see Sal getting shipped. Really unless we do a big trade for a forward that involves Fayne, I think the most movable D-man is still Tally as far as the starters go.

With all the D it may be for the best to just let Zids walk too.

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07-01-2013, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
The depth used to be at the top of the chart, not in the middle.

Although you have to start somewhere.

... actually, it used to be at both the top and the middle.
I'd say the depth is at the top again. We may not be churning out several legit #1s, but we do have several guys who could probably hold their own on a top pairing some day. Merrill, Gelinas, Severson, and even Santini would all make intriguing partners for Larsson when the time comes.

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07-01-2013, 07:44 AM
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please, no more zidlicky. please please please. no need for liability defensemen who rack up COMPLETELY unnecessary PIMs when we have talent chomping at the bit.

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07-01-2013, 07:58 AM
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it may happen as soon as this year, but with Schneider in net you can put younger talent out on the ice and let them make a few mistakes. That signals a major shift from vets to youth to me at least for sure next season... maybe some of that this year as well. Cory has the reflexes and agility to cover up some mistakes. Yes Marty still has those in his bag as well but not 3, 4 or 5 times a game like he used to.

let the makeover begin.

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07-01-2013, 08:06 AM
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it may happen as soon as this year, but with Schneider in net you can put younger talent out on the ice and let them make a few mistakes. That signals a major shift from vets to youth to me at least for sure next season... maybe some of that this year as well. Cory has the reflexes and agility to cover up some mistakes. Yes Marty still has those in his bag as well but not 3, 4 or 5 times a game like he used to.

let the makeover begin.
This is a good point.

As long as 1 d man is shipped out not named Greene, Fayne, or Larsson I will be happy.

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