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Round 1, Pick #11: Samuel Morin, Defense, Rimouski (QMJHL)

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06-30-2013, 11:15 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Oh I agree and if I could I'd would have called Homer and tell him to take the MTL trade. To the Flyers though they seem in awe with Morin.

I do think we gotta give it time. Morin does have some high upside even if there is a low floor. He won't sniff the NHL for like 4 years anyway
I say 3.....him and Stolarz if they don't get traded...

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06-30-2013, 11:16 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Between him and Morrissey?

Yes.

I liked Rychel and Shinkaruk as well, but all things considered, if you're looking BPA and see a forward and defenseman at the same level, and you need defensemen, it's a no-brainer.
For our club, yes, it's a no-brainer. I just don't see Morin as BPA. I don't see how anyone could.


however, if Pronger watched a lot of this kid and he really was the driving force behind us drafting him then I'll defer to him and eat my crow if/when Morin exceeds his projected draft status. Everyone was up in arms when we traded Oulette (you remember him, he was our next franchise goalie???) and I was too until I read that it was Bernie Parent who told Clarke to trade him that he wasn't coachable and would never amount to much in the NHL. THOSE guys know far better than any of the rest of us about the "IT FACTOR" and if Pronger stamps his approval on Morin then that would be good enough for me. However, it still remains to be said that EXPERT scouts don't agree with what is being said about Morins potential in this thread.

The fact remains that we didn't address the two biggest needs for this team with this draft when we had a very valuable pick. We should have used our pick and/or other assets to move up and get one of Jones/Nurse/Risto to address our defensive needs or trade for Schneider to address our goaltending needs.

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06-30-2013, 11:16 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
My sense before the draft was that swinging for the fences makes a lot of sense when you have other prospects in the pipeline. The Flyers cupboard is relatively barren on the backend with only Gostisbehere seemingly projecting as a top 4 at this stage. Other guys could develop there spontaneously or a guy like Alt could have the light turn on, but those seem like hopes and prayers at this stage.

Once you develop a solid core of prospects, swinging for the fences makes a lot more sense because if you miss, well, you've got 2, 3, 4 other guys waiting in the wings to cover. When we selected Morin, we swung for the fences with little to cover for a bust (which when you select 11, the D-man really should be a top 4). Now, getting Hagg changes things for the better... Even if Morin busts, Hagg may very well be there to cover for it.
I feel like Hagg's basement is a 4/5 defenseman while Morin's basement is a 3/4 defenseman.

Hagg has a better chance of being a little better than just that while Morin has a much higher upside.

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06-30-2013, 11:16 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Between him and Morrissey?

Yes.

I liked Rychel and Shinkaruk as well, but all things considered, if you're looking BPA and see a forward and defenseman at the same level, and you need defensemen, it's a no-brainer.
You like Morin better? How so, I want to gather some opinions.

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06-30-2013, 11:17 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Right now, Nashville is juggling far too many defensemen in their lineup.

Who's to say we aren't calling right now inquiring about someone else? Maybe Weber?

Laughton (Couturier) + Read + 1st 2014 + Morin (as a slower developing defenseman)

You've at least got his attention on 3 1st rounders including Couturier...

Don't think we're done yet. That doesn't necessarily mean Weber, but there's Kulikov and a ton of other options out there.
i wouldn't be mad if we grabbed David Rundblad.

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06-30-2013, 11:17 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Did you see the asking price for picks like that? It was reported teams were looking for two top/good prospects and the 1st to grab the picks.

Think Couturier, Laughton, & 11th. You would have done that?
I think Coots + Cousins + 11th would have gotten it done and yes, I would have made that trade. I'd have included our 2nd this year too if that's what it took.

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06-30-2013, 11:18 PM
  #257
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Gonna have to trust Nolet on Morin....

Again per Holmgren

Quote:
Q: Why do you think you guys have been so successful with Quebec guys? Simon has a pretty good track record.


"Yeah, he does. Going back a long way. He's just a good scout. The Québec league, all these leagues, whether it be the OHL, WHL, they take turns where one's better than the other. This was a good year for the Quebec league."

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06-30-2013, 11:18 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
What I'm pissed about is that we had a fairly high pick in a good draft and really didn't do much to improve our team now nor for the future. We would have been a better team tomorrow and in 5 years and in 10 years if we had traded our pick for Schneider than if we had used our pick on Morin. If we had made a move that hurts and traded coutireir and our pick at 11 for Nashvilles pick at 4 and drafted Jones then we'd have been a better team today and in the future.

I love Coots and don't want to trade him but lets be real here, Coots is NOT a difference maker and neither is Morin. JONES most likely will be. Maybe Jones doesn't pan out but he certainly has a much better chance to be a real difference maker than either of those 2. Give me a choice between Jones and Coots + Morin and I take Jones every time. Based upon how quickly Nashville selected Jones, homer didn't even call them.
Sorry, but you have NO IDEA whether this kid will improve our team in the future. He's not 18 yet, so we won't see him in Philly 2 years.

As far as your IFs are concerned, on what basis are you assuming that Couts + 11 would have gotten us the 4th pick?

Nashville just won the friggin' lottery, because TB was stupid and took Drouin over Jones. Why would they even consider trading the pick once Jones was available? That's just stupid thinking.

If all our scouts, esp. Nolet, wanted Morin, and Pronger agreed, I'm glad they didn't ignore their own advice and go with the latest HF boards bullcrap....

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06-30-2013, 11:18 PM
  #259
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From Hockey Prospects' Black Book (ranked 18):

"The giant defender will interest many NHL teams at the 2013 draft and there's no question he has a lot of attractive tools for the next level, but we would still qualify Morin as a project.

At 6'6" and 203 lbs, Morin is an intimidating force on the back end. He improved his footwork this year, thus making it easier for him to play an aggressive, mean and physical game. You know it will hurt to go in a battle down-low with the big defenseman. He will pin you to the board easily and use his long reach to elimate time and space from skilled players. He got over 100 penalty minutes this season, while he should cut down on undisciplined penalties. He was involved in many scrums, roughing situation in front of the net and fights, displaying his physical side well. He executes well the position game defensively, he blocks a lot of shots and covers a lot of space in slot coverage and he chooses the right moments to press the opposition most times showing good defensive hockey sense. He skates with long strides, making him a good forwards skater. He has above-average puck control and agility offensively for a big man. He doesn't hesitate to be aggressive on the pince, shows great confidence controlling the puck at the blue line and possesses a quality, low wrist shot with good accuracy.

Like most 17 year old defensemen his size, Morin still has a lot to improve before playing in the big leagues. Backward skating and gap control are still issues for him although it has progressed nicely in 2012-2013. He still has a hard time dealing with explosive skaters when they come out wide on him because he lacks backward speed and lateral mobility. Acquiring better explosiveness and overall skating abilities will help him play an even more aggressive game in all 3 zones. We would also like to see him take fewer undisciplined penalties, Morin has put his team in trouble more than once during the season with these. He still needs to put some pounds on to fill in that frame completely. With the size, mean streak and surprisingly good offensive potential he has, Morin is surely an interesting project for this year's draft".

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06-30-2013, 11:18 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
The fact remains that we didn't address the two biggest needs for this team with this draft when we had a very valuable pick. We should have used our pick and/or other assets to move up and get one of Jones/Nurse/Risto to address our defensive needs or trade for Schneider to address our goaltending needs.
You don't address immediate need at the draft

What don't you understand about this?

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06-30-2013, 11:19 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
For our club, yes, it's a no-brainer. I just don't see Morin as BPA. I don't see how anyone could.


however, if Pronger watched a lot of this kid and he really was the driving force behind us drafting him then I'll defer to him and eat my crow if/when Morin exceeds his projected draft status. Everyone was up in arms when we traded Oulette (you remember him, he was our next franchise goalie???) and I was too until I read that it was Bernie Parent who told Clarke to trade him that he wasn't coachable and would never amount to much in the NHL. THOSE guys know far better than any of the rest of us about the "IT FACTOR" and if Pronger stamps his approval on Morin then that would be good enough for me. However, it still remains to be said that EXPERT scouts don't agree with what is being said about Morins potential in this thread.

The fact remains that we didn't address the two biggest needs for this team with this draft when we had a very valuable pick. We should have used our pick and/or other assets to move up and get one of Jones/Nurse/Risto to address our defensive needs or trade for Schneider to address our goaltending needs.
You act like its just so easy to move up and grab one of those players. You sound like a little crybaby honestly, we all know Holmgren is always doing what he can to improvw this team. Im sure he tried to move up and Im glad he didnt, the difference between who we got and who we would have got wouldnt be worth what we would have to give up. I do agree on Schneider though, but that deal was agreed upon Saturday night.

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06-30-2013, 11:20 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I think Coots + Cousins + 11th would have gotten it done and yes, I would have made that trade. I'd have included our 2nd this year too if that's what it took.
Based on what, exactly? You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

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06-30-2013, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
For our club, yes, it's a no-brainer. I just don't see Morin as BPA. I don't see how anyone could.


however, if Pronger watched a lot of this kid and he really was the driving force behind us drafting him then I'll defer to him and eat my crow if/when Morin exceeds his projected draft status. Everyone was up in arms when we traded Oulette (you remember him, he was our next franchise goalie???) and I was too until I read that it was Bernie Parent who told Clarke to trade him that he wasn't coachable and would never amount to much in the NHL. THOSE guys know far better than any of the rest of us about the "IT FACTOR" and if Pronger stamps his approval on Morin then that would be good enough for me. However, it still remains to be said that EXPERT scouts don't agree with what is being said about Morins potential in this thread.

The fact remains that we didn't address the two biggest needs for this team with this draft when we had a very valuable pick. We should have used our pick and/or other assets to move up and get one of Jones/Nurse/Risto to address our defensive needs or trade for Schneider to address our goaltending needs.
**** Schneider. I think goaltending assets at that level are dime-a-dozen. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks so, but I don't care. Mason is just fine. He's not ideal, but he's fine. We need to surround him with the right support. Every year there's some young goalie on the market.

I would never give up a top 10 draft pick for a goalie, regardless of who the goalie is.

As far as not addressing our need for a #1, just like trading for Weber, the cost was too damn high.

I'm not sacrificing the franchise for a #1, let alone a potential #1.

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06-30-2013, 11:20 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Per Holmgren..
If Holmgren gets "locked in" to just drafting then he needs to be fired ASAP. that's ****ing unacceptable. It's his ****ing JOB to NOT get too focused on just drafting and to be able to explore ALL options at ALL times.

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06-30-2013, 11:21 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I think Coots + Cousins + 11th would have gotten it done and yes, I would have made that trade. I'd have included our 2nd this year too if that's what it took.
Wait you would have done Couturier, Laughton , 1st and 2nd?

They were not gonna take Cousins. Straight off of twitter they wanted two top prospects. Cousins isn't one and wouldn't have cut it

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06-30-2013, 11:22 PM
  #266
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I know there is no way Morin makes the team, but do you guys think he'll still join in for a 9 game trial before being sent back to junior?

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06-30-2013, 11:23 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
I know there is no way Morin makes the team, but do you guys think he'll still join in for a 9 game trial before being sent back to junior?
Depends on his camp, but let's not pretend he's Laughton and let's not pretend playing defense is the same as playing forward.

Let him develop. We said this about Laughton too, but I mean it this time. Unless he "wow"s you, send his ass packing.

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06-30-2013, 11:23 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
I know there is no way Morin makes the team, but do you guys think he'll still join in for a 9 game trial before being sent back to junior?
I wouldn't. He'll be at the prospects camp and then I would send him back to Rimouski. I wouldn't want him taking time from guys who are closer to making the big club.

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06-30-2013, 11:24 PM
  #269
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Oh I agree and if I could I'd would have called Homer and tell him to take the MTL trade. To the Flyers though they seem in awe with Morin.

I do think we gotta give it time. Morin does have some high upside even if there is a low floor. He won't sniff the NHL for like 4 years anyway
Well time is all we have now. I'm just sorely disappointed with the whole draft because the farm is devoid of high end talent and they pretty much reached with everyone except Hagg. Morin is high risk, they drafted a role player in round 3 100 spots ahead of where he was ranked and the rest of them were not ranked except for the goalie. I would have just liked to see them load up on skill which gives them a better chance of having one or two players panning out.

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06-30-2013, 11:24 PM
  #270
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Hope he doesn't make it. Seriously the guy is raw as ****. Be a huge mistake to keep him up

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06-30-2013, 11:25 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
I know there is no way Morin makes the team, but do you guys think he'll still join in for a 9 game trial before being sent back to junior?
Not this year imo. Maybe next season. Morin was young for this this draft, so he'll be about a month older than some of the guys taken in the draft next season and could easily get a small viewing then.

As always, it all depends how he does in camp and the rookie games. He could come out of nowhere and make a case. Very unlikely though.

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06-30-2013, 11:26 PM
  #272
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I wouldn't. He'll be at the prospects camp and then I would send him back to Rimouski. I wouldn't want him taking time from guys who are closer to making the big club.

Realistically, he could spend two more years in Junior before turning pro, and then he might need time in the AHL. He's not even 18 yet...It depends how he continues to develop this year.

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06-30-2013, 11:27 PM
  #273
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Well time is all we have now. I'm just sorely disappointed with the whole draft because the farm is devoid of high end talent and they pretty much reached with everyone except Hagg. Morin is high risk, they drafted a role player in round 3 100 spots ahead of where he was ranked and the rest of them were not ranked except for the goalie. I would have just liked to see them load up on skill which gives them a better chance of having one or two players panning out.
Yea other than Hagg this was a super disappointing draft. Really enjoyed last years.

Shame too cause there were some players in this one in the later rounds that had some high reward factors. Instead they honestly took a bunch of randoms.

Time to look forward to see who they invite to the prospect camp.

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06-30-2013, 11:29 PM
  #274
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I know that the pipeline instantly became better with Morin and Hagg, though.

Morin (monster dman with unknown potential, best case: two way top pair dman, worst case: bottom pair defensive dman, realistic: good 2nd pair defensive dman)

Hagg: (two way, smooth skating and good all-around with high upside. Needs to improve consistency. Best case: two way top pair dman, worst case: bust, realistic: 2nd pair all around dman who can possibly QB a PP)

Gostisbehere: (offensive dman, smooth skating with rocket shot. High risk, high reward. Some two way upside. Best case: 2nd pair offensive dman, PP QB, worst case: bust, realistic: 2nd/3rd pair offensive dman who can QB a PP)

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06-30-2013, 11:32 PM
  #275
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I know that the pipeline instantly became better with Morin and Hagg, though.

Morin (monster dman with unknown potential, best case: two way top pair dman, worst case: bottom pair defensive dman, realistic: good 2nd pair defensive dman)

Hagg: (two way, smooth skating and good all-around with high upside. Needs to improve consistency. Best case: two way top pair dman, worst case: bust, realistic: 2nd pair all around dman who can possibly QB a PP)

Gostisbehere: (offensive dman, smooth skating with rocket shot. High risk, high reward. Some two way upside. Best case: 2nd pair offensive dman, PP QB, worst case: bust, realistic: 2nd/3rd pair offensive dman who can QB a PP)
Calling Ghost a high risk is pretty ridiculous..dont see much of a risk in him at all. I think you are selling his best case scenario a little short too. Think more along the lines of Duncan Keith, thats a perfect comaparable if everything goes right for him.

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