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Round 1, Pick #11: Samuel Morin, Defense, Rimouski (QMJHL)

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Old
06-30-2013, 11:32 PM
  #276
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
From Hockey Prospects' Black Book (ranked 18):

"The giant defender will interest many NHL teams at the 2013 draft and there's no question he has a lot of attractive tools for the next level, but we would still qualify Morin as a project.

At 6'6" and 203 lbs, Morin is an intimidating force on the back end. He improved his footwork this year, thus making it easier for him to play an aggressive, mean and physical game. You know it will hurt to go in a battle down-low with the big defenseman. He will pin you to the board easily and use his long reach to elimate time and space from skilled players. He got over 100 penalty minutes this season, while he should cut down on undisciplined penalties. He was involved in many scrums, roughing situation in front of the net and fights, displaying his physical side well. He executes well the position game defensively, he blocks a lot of shots and covers a lot of space in slot coverage and he chooses the right moments to press the opposition most times showing good defensive hockey sense. He skates with long strides, making him a good forwards skater. He has above-average puck control and agility offensively for a big man. He doesn't hesitate to be aggressive on the pince, shows great confidence controlling the puck at the blue line and possesses a quality, low wrist shot with good accuracy.

Like most 17 year old defensemen his size, Morin still has a lot to improve before playing in the big leagues. Backward skating and gap control are still issues for him although it has progressed nicely in 2012-2013. He still has a hard time dealing with explosive skaters when they come out wide on him because he lacks backward speed and lateral mobility. Acquiring better explosiveness and overall skating abilities will help him play an even more aggressive game in all 3 zones. We would also like to see him take fewer undisciplined penalties, Morin has put his team in trouble more than once during the season with these. He still needs to put some pounds on to fill in that frame completely. With the size, mean streak and surprisingly good offensive potential he has, Morin is surely an interesting project for this year's draft".
Thanks for sharing. It's nice to read an in-depth scouting report that goes through the strengths and weaknesses. I think they will be the guide I go with next year.

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06-30-2013, 11:35 PM
  #277
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The flyers really needed to come out of this draft with 2 legit Defensive prospects. And they did just that.

I said that this was a 10 person draft and that getting pick 11 was a death wish. Once Rasmus got picked I was hoping to go for Horvat, but that didn't work out either.

After that I didn't even care who they picked, so might as well pick a guy who has a ton of potential then a curtis lazar who is at most a 3rd line center.

But that 2nd pick we nailed. I saw so many mock drafts that had Hagg in the15-25 range and to get him 20 picks later than where he was projected to go was sweet.

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06-30-2013, 11:35 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
I know there is no way Morin makes the team, but do you guys think he'll still join in for a 9 game trial before being sent back to junior?
Send him back to juniors and forget he exists for the next two years. Seriously this kid is raw and needs time to develop. I think 2 years in juniors and at least half a season in the A would be good.

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06-30-2013, 11:36 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Depends on his camp, but let's not pretend he's Laughton and let's not pretend playing defense is the same as playing forward.

Let him develop. We said this about Laughton too, but I mean it this time. Unless he "wow"s you, send his ass packing.
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I wouldn't. He'll be at the prospects camp and then I would send him back to Rimouski. I wouldn't want him taking time from guys who are closer to making the big club.
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Not this year imo. Maybe next season. Morin was young for this this draft, so he'll be about a month older than some of the guys taken in the draft next season and could easily get a small viewing then.

As always, it all depends how he does in camp and the rookie games. He could come out of nowhere and make a case. Very unlikely though.
Thank you guys for your input. IMO, though, even if Morin does impress us come camp there should be no consideration of him staying up for the season. I really just hope we develop him right, and have him perfect his offensive game in Rimouski.

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06-30-2013, 11:37 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
You don't address immediate need at the draft

What don't you understand about this?
You don't think that the Devils addressed an IMMEDIATE NEED at the draft when they traded for Schneider???? Come on now, while you may not have fixed EVEYTHING with one draft pick we certainly could have done better than we did.

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06-30-2013, 11:37 PM
  #281
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Morin definitely isn't BPA, but he's a good prospect.... typical boom or bust. His floor is as a good AHL lifer, but his ceiling is undoubtedly as a top-pairing anchor. He's not even 18 at this point... with proper development, hard work, and focus on the right areas of his game, there is no reason he cannot develop some offensive skills and learn to move the puck well. If he does that, adds weight, and continues to improve his defense, there is no reason he can't be a 25 minute/night anchor on your d.

Realistically, I think he will end up a solid 2nd/3rd pairing guy. May be turnover-prone given his clear lack of confidence with the puck on his stick when pressured. God knows what will happen in 3 years...

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06-30-2013, 11:40 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Calling Ghost a high risk is pretty ridiculous..dont see much of a risk in him at all. I think you are selling his best case scenario a little short too. Think more along the lines of Duncan Keith, thats a perfect comaparable if everything goes right for him.
He carries quite a bit of risk IMO. He gambles a lot, and will never be a stud in the dzone. I'm a big fan, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Thanks for sharing. It's nice to read an in-depth scouting report that goes through the strengths and weaknesses. I think they will be the guide I go with next year.
No problem. Here are two other pieces about him from his write up:

"Morin has come a long way since last year, more mean and more confident with the puck. Still does have occasional brain cramps that make you scratch your head but his upside is as high as any defenseman from the QMJHL. It's rare to see a 6'7" defenseman as mobile as this kid" -Jerome Berube

"I saw him early in the season and he had some shifts where he flashed smart play and skill. The problem was the other half of his shifts where brain cramps led to very poor play. I was impressed with him on big ice in Russia. He still had some weak plays on the puck and had made some poor puck decisions but I saw an improved player. If that upward trend continues he will be a valuable prospect" -Mark Edwards

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06-30-2013, 11:41 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You don't think that the Devils addressed an IMMEDIATE NEED at the draft when they traded for Schneider???? Come on now, while you may not have fixed EVEYTHING with one draft pick we certainly could have done better than we did.
The Devils overpaid for Schneider. Now, organizationally, goaltending is extremely important to the Devils... it's the lynchpin of their whole system, it's how they've won all their recent cups; great D and great 'tending. From an intra-organizational perspective, #9 overall was probably worth it to them, but looking outside of the organization, and particularly at the Flyers, trading a pick plus a prospect for Schneider would have been stupid. I would fully condone trading #11 and prospects/picks for a legit top-pairing D if one was available for a reasonable price, but that didn't happen.

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06-30-2013, 11:41 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
**** Schneider. I think goaltending assets at that level are dime-a-dozen. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks so, but I don't care. Mason is just fine. He's not ideal, but he's fine. We need to surround him with the right support. Every year there's some young goalie on the market.

I would never give up a top 10 draft pick for a goalie, regardless of who the goalie is.

As far as not addressing our need for a #1, just like trading for Weber, the cost was too damn high.

I'm not sacrificing the franchise for a #1, let alone a potential #1.
Do you think that a #1 goalie is worth a 2nd pairing dman??? Honest question here.


The realistic projections for Morin is 2nd pairing defensive dman (god we can only hope he's as good as Luke Schenn) and IMO it's more valuable as a franchise WITHOUT a legit #1 goalie to have Schneider than to add another 2nd pairing defensive minded dman like Morin. In my opinion it's a failure by the organization for NOT trading for Schneider and drafting Morin.

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06-30-2013, 11:42 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You don't think that the Devils addressed an IMMEDIATE NEED at the draft when they traded for Schneider???? Come on now, while you may not have fixed EVEYTHING with one draft pick we certainly could have done better than we did.
Oh, my bad, I wasn't aware trading isn't allowed outside the draft.

Your premise is that picking Morin didn't solve an immediate need.

In this thread you have advocated trading down from the #11 spot or trading the pick altogether. The former does nothing to address the immediate need you keep harping on, and the latter was an option that was seemingly explored to the fullest extent. I'm sure Holmgren inquired about Schneider prior to the draft (in fact, I'm sure Gillis did his best to sell Schneider to a team that obviously needs a goalie in the Flyers), but Holmgren obviously didn't like the price.

And why should he like that price? There are other options available still. The goalie market is saturated, and it doesn't close once the draft is over. Kudos to Holmgren for not being swayed into a deal he didn't like because the pressure of the draft got to him.

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06-30-2013, 11:42 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Calling Ghost a high risk is pretty ridiculous..dont see much of a risk in him at all. I think you are selling his best case scenario a little short too. Think more along the lines of Duncan Keith, thats a perfect comaparable if everything goes right for him.
keith wishes he had a slapshot like that, but ghost wishes he had every other aspect of keith's game.

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06-30-2013, 11:43 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Do you think that a #1 goalie is worth a 2nd pairing dman??? Honest question here.


The realistic projections for Morin is 2nd pairing defensive dman (god we can only hope he's as good as Luke Schenn) and IMO it's more valuable as a franchise WITHOUT a legit #1 goalie to have Schneider than to add another 2nd pairing defensive minded dman like Morin. In my opinion it's a failure by the organization for NOT trading for Schneider and drafting Morin.
Schneider isn't a proven #1. Hasn't played more than 33 games in a season. A #1 'tender worth the #9 overall better have played at least 60+ games in a season with a good track record. People don't understand how much fatigue goaltenders deal with when they play that many games.

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06-30-2013, 11:44 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Do you think that a #1 goalie is worth a 2nd pairing dman??? Honest question here.


The realistic projections for Morin is 2nd pairing defensive dman (god we can only hope he's as good as Luke Schenn) and IMO it's more valuable as a franchise WITHOUT a legit #1 goalie to have Schneider than to add another 2nd pairing defensive minded dman like Morin. In my opinion it's a failure by the organization for NOT trading for Schneider and drafting Morin.
There are so many goaltending options still available. Hiller, Halak, Thomas, Nabokov, etc. Why waste a prime pick that can bolster our prospect pool when we can find a goalie on the cheap in a buyer's market?

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06-30-2013, 11:44 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
Thank you guys for your input. IMO, though, even if Morin does impress us come camp there should be no consideration of him staying up for the season. I really just hope we develop him right, and have him perfect his offensive game in Rimouski.
Patience will be key with Morin. With Hagg in the fold too it gives us a bit of security blanket to allow Morin the time he will need to develop or at least I hope.

Rimouski is one of the top programs in the Q so it's not like we're sending him back to some terrible or average program.

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06-30-2013, 11:45 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
Morin definitely isn't BPA, but he's a good prospect.... typical boom or bust. His floor is as a good AHL lifer, but his ceiling is undoubtedly as a top-pairing anchor. He's not even 18 at this point... with proper development, hard work, and focus on the right areas of his game, there is no reason he cannot develop some offensive skills and learn to move the puck well. If he does that, adds weight, and continues to improve his defense, there is no reason he can't be a 25 minute/night anchor on your d.

Realistically, I think he will end up a solid 2nd/3rd pairing guy. May be turnover-prone given his clear lack of confidence with the puck on his stick when pressured. God knows what will happen in 3 years...
Honestly, are you going to be happy if we "realistically" end up with a 2nd/3rd paring guy with the 11th pick??? I know that's I'm not!!!! This was a draft that we SHOULD have either made the tough decision to pay the price to move up or to trade the pick outright for Schneider or someone of the like. Hell, the Leafs gave up peanuts for JB and WE couldn't put together a better package???? WTF???

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06-30-2013, 11:47 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Do you think that a #1 goalie is worth a 2nd pairing dman??? Honest question here.


The realistic projections for Morin is 2nd pairing defensive dman (god we can only hope he's as good as Luke Schenn) and IMO it's more valuable as a franchise WITHOUT a legit #1 goalie to have Schneider than to add another 2nd pairing defensive minded dman like Morin. In my opinion it's a failure by the organization for NOT trading for Schneider and drafting Morin.
How is 11 better than 9. Soooomehow...i think Van would have turned that down.

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06-30-2013, 11:48 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Oh, my bad, I wasn't aware trading isn't allowed outside the draft.

Your premise is that picking Morin didn't solve an immediate need.

In this thread you have advocated trading down from the #11 spot or trading the pick altogether. The former does nothing to address the immediate need you keep harping on, and the latter was an option that was seemingly explored to the fullest extent. I'm sure Holmgren inquired about Schneider prior to the draft (in fact, I'm sure Gillis did his best to sell Schneider to a team that obviously needs a goalie in the Flyers), but Holmgren obviously didn't like the price.

And why should he like that price? There are other options available still. The goalie market is saturated, and it doesn't close once the draft is over. Kudos to Holmgren for not being swayed into a deal he didn't like because the pressure of the draft got to him.
I never once said we should trade down in this thread, NOT ONCE!!! Go back and look.

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06-30-2013, 11:50 PM
  #293
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How is 11 better than 9. Soooomehow...i think Van would have turned that down.
HMMM, IDK, maybe you could have talked to the Canucks BEFORE they made the deal with the Devils. Obviously they didn't have a deal in place BEFORE the draft so it's not like we COULDN'T have had a deal in place before today. Try again though.

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06-30-2013, 11:53 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Honestly, are you going to be happy if we "realistically" end up with a 2nd/3rd paring guy with the 11th pick??? I know that's I'm not!!!! This was a draft that we SHOULD have either made the tough decision to pay the price to move up or to trade the pick outright for Schneider or someone of the like. Hell, the Leafs gave up peanuts for JB and WE couldn't put together a better package???? WTF???
I don't disagree that they should have moved up or traded the pick for a good d-man, but what we need is a franchise-caliber d-man and they just weren't available for anything less than a cost that would essentially bankrupt the franchise of prospect talent.

If you're railing on about not getting Jones at #4, I don't think that NSH would have traded the pick, just as I doubt TB would be willing to move it for a huge cost. At the cost that it would take to move up, I'd rather give up a bit more in the way of assets and acquire a proven top-pairing D-man. We all know what Calgary wanted for their pick (Coby+Read+11) and I think we can agree that is too extreme a price... so why are you *****ing and moaning?

Nobody knows what Morin will become, the dude isn't even old enough to walk into a titty bar yet. He's boom or bust, and if he booms, he'll be the best player in the draft behind Nate Mac and Jones imho.

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06-30-2013, 11:53 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
HMMM, IDK, maybe you could have talked to the Canucks BEFORE they made the deal with the Devils. Obviously they didn't have a deal in place BEFORE the draft so it's not like we COULDN'T have had a deal in place before today. Try again though.
Because the devils couldnt have done that either.

I'm sure today was the first time anybody has talked about trading with Vancouver for Schneider.

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06-30-2013, 11:54 PM
  #296
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I never once said we should trade down in this thread, NOT ONCE!!! Go back and look.
Oh really?

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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
The difference between him and a dman ranked in the early to mid 20's was not significant enough to be worried about moving back. THAT'S the point of this.

Seems pretty clear what you're suggesting here. But I don't know, you seldom make much sense in your posts. You're honestly one of the hardest posters to understand. I'd recommend rereading your posts before hitting the "submit" button.

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06-30-2013, 11:55 PM
  #297
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The flyers really needed to come out of this draft with 2 legit Defensive prospects. And they did just that.

I said that this was a 10 person draft and that getting pick 11 was a death wish. Once Rasmus got picked I was hoping to go for Horvat, but that didn't work out either.

After that I didn't even care who they picked, so might as well pick a guy who has a ton of potential then a curtis lazar who is at most a 3rd line center.

But that 2nd pick we nailed. I saw so many mock drafts that had Hagg in the15-25 range and to get him 20 picks later than where he was projected to go was sweet.
Everybody rated in the top 10 basically went in it. We had no crazy falls this year.

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06-30-2013, 11:55 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
The Devils overpaid for Schneider. Now, organizationally, goaltending is extremely important to the Devils... it's the lynchpin of their whole system, it's how they've won all their recent cups; great D and great 'tending. From an intra-organizational perspective, #9 overall was probably worth it to them, but looking outside of the organization, and particularly at the Flyers, trading a pick plus a prospect for Schneider would have been stupid. I would fully condone trading #11 and prospects/picks for a legit top-pairing D if one was available for a reasonable price, but that didn't happen.
Yeah, and the Devils have 3 rings to show for it in the last 15 years, we have none. But that's fine, lets keep going status quo with our recycle bin goalies, that's fine. Looks like no more rings for another 40 years with that kind of mentality. You don't win cups in this era without goaltending and defense, two things we are severly lacking at the moment (and no Morin isn't the solution to that problem).

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06-30-2013, 11:57 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
HMMM, IDK, maybe you could have talked to the Canucks BEFORE they made the deal with the Devils. Obviously they didn't have a deal in place BEFORE the draft so it's not like we COULDN'T have had a deal in place before today. Try again though.
Trade between the Devils and Canucks was settled on Saturday night.

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06-30-2013, 11:57 PM
  #300
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**** Schneider
this.

morin is a big mean defenseman who doesn't seem all that slow. big mean and fast are the 3 things you want in a defenseman. I don't give a sweaty pile of sticktape how many goals he scores. that's what you have forwards for. he was a bit of a reach but I love the snot outta this pick.

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