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Round 3, Pick #72: Tyrell Goulbourne, Forward, Kelowna (WHL)

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:10 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
That would be why I said that I'd rather gamble on hitting one of those players every 10-20 years than picking 20 Rinaldos.
And you might never get one, in 40 years.

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07-01-2013, 06:20 AM
  #102
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The thing is... if people consider the 3rd round... especially the early third round, a crapshoot, then the 2nd is a crapshoot as well. The success rates for the two rounds are quite similar. It is the 4th round onwards where it is a real crapshoot.

If this is a strong draft... statistically about 2-3 3rd rounders will play in an allstar game, 4-5 about 700 games in the NHL, I just feel you have to pick players who gave a ceiling to do that.

I just hope Oliver Bjorkstrand does not become a good NHLer now, or I will be pissed we didn't draft him!

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07-01-2013, 06:25 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh, look, it's the 'you have the right to challenge the organization (even though I never heard of this guy or the other guys available besides the one highlight film I watched the other day)' guy. Close the thread. This guy is worthless because I don't know who he is and there were other names I recognized.
I do have the right. As does everyone else. Especially when you're making dumb picks which is highlighting the organization's refusal to accept what the league has become. This is why the smart teams who win championships do it right at the draft, and we're signing and trading for guys who are in their late 30s. It doesn't matter if he makes the NHL if he's a bad player when he gets there. If the best player available is being compared to Zac Rinaldo, that is a tremendous failure in organizational philosophy. Let's highlight how this failed culture resulted in acceptance of mediocrity:

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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Well said. I don't this kid from Adam, but from those two clips, the kid has his head on his shoulders and our scouts liked him. That's how it works. Given his determination to make it, toughness, speed and hands, he'll probably enjoy a long NHL career.
Still very little about hockey skill. Which means he wasn't the best player available, which means you did it wrong.

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07-01-2013, 06:55 AM
  #104
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This was a bad pick, and there is no way to defend it. The type of player you got can be had on the waiver wire. You should not be drafting kids that are projected to be 4th liners. I don't care about their heart and soul and all that bs if they can't actually play. It is a piss poor use of a draft pick.

They compare him to Rinaldo... who was taken in the 6th round. If you're going to waste a pick at least let it be in the 6th or 7th round, it'll make it easier to deal with. If they really wanted him I'm sure they could have waited a round or 2.

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07-01-2013, 07:32 AM
  #105
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I'm not one of those wannabe draft gurus that clearly knows little to nothing about 99% of these players,(like 95% of the people on this board), however any time you draft a guy that didn't even expected to be drafted, in the THIRD ROUND... that's without a doubt a bad pick.

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07-01-2013, 07:48 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I do have the right. As does everyone else. Especially when you're making dumb picks which is highlighting the organization's refusal to accept what the league has become. This is why the smart teams who win championships do it right at the draft, and we're signing and trading for guys who are in their late 30s. It doesn't matter if he makes the NHL if he's a bad player when he gets there. If the best player available is being compared to Zac Rinaldo, that is a tremendous failure in organizational philosophy. Let's highlight how this failed culture resulted in acceptance of mediocrity:



Still very little about hockey skill. Which means he wasn't the best player available, which means you did it wrong.
Look, I never said it was a good pick. All I am saying is that you know exactly jack boo about this kid, and probably only a tiny miniscule amount more about whomever it was you had in mind. You can say you don't like the pick. That is fine. I don't really like it either. I would have rather seen them pick the guy Minnesota picked a few picks later (Kurtis Gabriel). But I am not going to sit here and say they got it wrong and should have picked him because one time I saw a clip about him. That is ridiculous. You (and most others on here) don't know Goulbourne. You (and most others on here) probably don't know many of the other guys drafted in the third round outside of random tweets and youtube clips. You saw a couple lists and Goulbourne wasn't on them. So they are wrong.

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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I'm not one of those wannabe draft gurus that clearly knows little to nothing about 99% of these players,(like 95% of the people on this board), however any time you draft a guy that didn't even expected to be drafted, in the THIRD ROUND... that's without a doubt a bad pick.
Tell that to Keith Jones! When he was told he was drafted he thought there was a war going on.

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07-01-2013, 07:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Look, I never said it was a good pick. All I am saying is that you know exactly jack boo about this kid, and probably only a tiny miniscule amount more about whomever it was you had in mind. You can say you don't like the pick. That is fine. I don't really like it either. I would have rather seen them pick the guy Minnesota picked a few picks later (Kurtis Gabriel). But I am not going to sit here and say they got it wrong and should have picked him because one time I saw a clip about him. That is ridiculous. You (and most others on here) don't know Goulbourne. You (and most others on here) probably don't know many of the other guys drafted in the third round outside of random tweets and youtube clips. You saw a couple lists and Goulbourne wasn't on them. So they are wrong.
If you don't think some teams use YouTube clips to evaluate players, I have a bridge to sell you.

Even at that, Morganti and Coatsey are doing hits on CSN about the draft, do you think those guys are sitting at home on nights off watching YouTube clips and CHL webcasts of the hundreds of draft hopefuls? Because I'm sure you'd argue six ways to Sunday that they know more than a guy on the other side of a computer screen.

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07-01-2013, 08:10 AM
  #108
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this kid could have been signed as a free agent out of juniors lol. or even in the 7th round. cant believe they wasted a 3rd on him

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07-01-2013, 08:19 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Look, I never said it was a good pick. All I am saying is that you know exactly jack boo about this kid, and probably only a tiny miniscule amount more about whomever it was you had in mind. You can say you don't like the pick. That is fine. I don't really like it either. I would have rather seen them pick the guy Minnesota picked a few picks later (Kurtis Gabriel). But I am not going to sit here and say they got it wrong and should have picked him because one time I saw a clip about him. That is ridiculous. You (and most others on here) don't know Goulbourne. You (and most others on here) probably don't know many of the other guys drafted in the third round outside of random tweets and youtube clips. You saw a couple lists and Goulbourne wasn't on them. So they are wrong.



Tell that to Keith Jones! When he was told he was drafted he thought there was a war going on.
I don't think it had anything to do with the "lists" when it came to Goulbourne. It's that every year it seems that Holmgren and Co. decide to go with an overager or fighter who resembles what the NHL used to be like. That's why most are upset and are referring to. If they went on sheer skill for this pick, they would have selected Gabriel or maybe even Jordan Subban or a few others that were still there. Nobody likes them picking Klotz type of players because it's a waste of a pick

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07-01-2013, 08:25 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
If you don't think some teams use YouTube clips to evaluate players, I have a bridge to sell you.
Do they use YouTube? Sure. Why wouldn't they? Is that the ONLY thing they use? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Quote:
Even at that, Morganti and Coatsey are doing hits on CSN about the draft, do you think those guys are sitting at home on nights off watching YouTube clips and CHL webcasts of the hundreds of draft hopefuls? Because I'm sure you'd argue six ways to Sunday that they know more than a guy on the other side of a computer screen.
That's fine. But you are not Coatsey or Morganti (and I didn't hear what they had to say so I can't really comment on what they are saying). Again, I don't like the pick either. But I also am not informed enough to call it a bad pick. Especially before the kid ever even has a shot. Will it turn out to be a "bad" pick? It very well may. The guy chosen right behind him may turn out to be an all-star. But also he may not. I don't know, and neither do you. And it isn't because we can't see the future, it's because you don't know who Goulbourne is, nor do you know who any of the other guys are, outside of a tweet from a random hockey blogger or a youtube highlight reel.

Are you going to chime in about who the best up and coming cricket player is because you saw some youtube clips or read a rankings list? Probabyl not.

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07-01-2013, 08:54 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Fire Mark Greig. He is the WHL scout that pushed for Garret Klotz as well.
He's a ****ing scout? Dude was barely an NHL player. Is every member of this front office a former "player"? All marginal ones at that?!

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07-01-2013, 08:58 AM
  #112
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He's a ****ing scout? Dude was barely an NHL player. Is every member of this front office a former "player"? All marginal ones at that?!
I don't think too many good NHL players who made millions of dollars during their careers are looking to sign up for a job that pays some of the lowest $ out of any official hockey capacity job in the organization and has you travelling from bumble**** alberta to ***backwards ontario hitting every rinky dink town along the way and staying in motel 6's.

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07-01-2013, 09:02 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by flybynite77 View Post
I don't think too many good NHL players who made millions of dollars during their careers are looking to sign up for a job that pays some of the lowest $ out of any official hockey capacity job in the organization and has you travelling from bumble**** alberta to ***backwards ontario hitting every rinky dink town along the way and staying in motel 6's.
Well yeah but I'm sure there's hockey people out there who didn't play for the flyers who can do a better job. It's shocking every single name I hear played here. Mark Greig. It's a name I'm stunned to hear again. Sorry lol.

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07-01-2013, 09:04 AM
  #114
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That's not to say this pick is bad. I don't judge picks until later it's a head scratcher but the jury is still out. But hearing Greig pushed for Klotz and this guy has me beleive his eye for talent isn't quite accurate for today's game.

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07-01-2013, 09:05 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Do they use YouTube? Sure. Why wouldn't they? Is that the ONLY thing they use? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
This sillyness in deflecting with reverse-rhetorical points doesn't help your case.

Quote:
That's fine. But you are not Coatsey or Morganti (and I didn't hear what they had to say so I can't really comment on what they are saying). Again, I don't like the pick either. But I also am not informed enough to call it a bad pick. Especially before the kid ever even has a shot. Will it turn out to be a "bad" pick? It very well may. The guy chosen right behind him may turn out to be an all-star. But also he may not. I don't know, and neither do you. And it isn't because we can't see the future, it's because you don't know who Goulbourne is, nor do you know who any of the other guys are, outside of a tweet from a random hockey blogger or a youtube highlight reel.

Are you going to chime in about who the best up and coming cricket player is because you saw some youtube clips or read a rankings list? Probabyl not.
I hope I'm not Morganti or Coatsey because they're moronic hired guns who play to the crowd who stay stuck in the 70s.

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07-01-2013, 09:06 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by flybynite77 View Post
I don't think too many good NHL players who made millions of dollars during their careers are looking to sign up for a job that pays some of the lowest $ out of any official hockey capacity job in the organization and has you travelling from bumble**** alberta to ***backwards ontario hitting every rinky dink town along the way and staying in motel 6's.
He's not a very good scout evidently. They should honestly ignore him until the later rounds if he's going to supply us with these gems.

Most guys who work in the NHL even in the higher positions weren't very good players though. I don't really see the correlation between the two really. I mean usually the most successful Coaches, GM's, & Scouts in any sport weren't noteworthy players when they played.

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07-01-2013, 09:09 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
This sillyness in deflecting with reverse-rhetorical points doesn't help your case.
How is that deflecting? I agree that they use YouTube. Why wouldn't they? But I don't think that it is the ONLY form of scouting they do.

Quote:
I hope I'm not Morganti or Coatsey because they're moronic hired guns who play to the crowd who stay stuck in the 70s.
So my "reverse-rhetorical point" is characterized as "sillyness" to you (even though I was making a valid counterpoint). But this response is acceptable. I guess I never should have question you.

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07-01-2013, 09:13 AM
  #118
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I just hope at some point we'll be able to pull this thread up and have a laugh at how wrong we all were. But really... another Klotz? I hope not.

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07-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #119
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I just hope at some point we'll be able to pull this thread up and have a laugh at how wrong we all were. But really... another Klotz? I hope not.
The Morin thread has potential. This one though I'm really confident in it not being the case down the road.

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07-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #120
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What a worthless pick. It's not 1994 anymore. The game has changed. Stop tossing away draft picks for scrub fourth liners. Subban while only 5'8" would have been a much wiser choice regardless if he's another defensemen.

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07-01-2013, 09:29 AM
  #121
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Why would anyone blame a scout for this pick? Unless Greig told Holmgren that there's some hidden 2nd liner upside, it seems that Holmgren knew exactly what he was picking when he called him "Z2." That's on Holmgren not on Grieg.

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07-01-2013, 09:49 AM
  #122
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Wow! Think in the third round you could find one of those skilled euros who may be lacking in grit. I'd take a chance on that way over an 18 year old who scored 14 goals and likes to fight. I get pissed at dudes who call in sports radio and complain that Homer lives in the past...well this is just fuel on their fire now.

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07-01-2013, 11:23 AM
  #123
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Not defending it, but my god, can this kid fight.

We should've and could've easily gotten him in the 5th, but if Holmgren thinks he's Zac Rinaldo 2.0, some around here are going to love him. Remember how we all disliked the Rinaldo pick? Then he turned into an NHLer.

Still think this pick could have been used much more appropriately, but if Holmgren says he's an NHLer, there's usually something to that.



EDIT: I also want to point out something seemingly obvious and evident if you closely at who the Flyers have taken in the last few drafts on the outside and who they've wanted but fell short on.

The Flyers love Brad Marchand and Milan Lucic. They're looking for guys who might end up being of ilk. Not that they've found them, but they're looking.


Last edited by CS: 07-01-2013 at 11:29 AM.
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07-01-2013, 11:55 AM
  #124
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Bill dissected this pick in his blog post today...yeah basically he said it was ill-advised.

Maybe the Flyers have a need for a locker room personality that everybody likes? I mean they kept players like Shelley and Cote around for way longer than they should have. Holmgren seems to value these types of players that keep the locker room "loose" etc. Who the heck knows..I certainly see little added value in having such a player especially if they lack skill. Maybe the team sports psychologist had some input or he should at the very least be able to explain this baffling selection....

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07-01-2013, 11:56 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


Not defending it, but my god, can this kid fight.

We should've and could've easily gotten him in the 5th, but if Holmgren thinks he's Zac Rinaldo 2.0, some around here are going to love him. Remember how we all disliked the Rinaldo pick? Then he turned into an NHLer.

Still think this pick could have been used much more appropriately, but if Holmgren says he's an NHLer, there's usually something to that.



EDIT: I also want to point out something seemingly obvious and evident if you closely at who the Flyers have taken in the last few drafts on the outside and who they've wanted but fell short on.

The Flyers love Brad Marchand and Milan Lucic. They're looking for guys who might end up being of ilk. Not that they've found them, but they're looking.
I think Mark Greig's entire scouting role is combing through hockeyfights.com.

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