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Pittsburgh signs Kris Letang to extension (8 years, $7.25M per)

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07-01-2013, 08:13 AM
  #601
pucky
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What is Shero smoking?!?

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07-01-2013, 08:17 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
Not when you're already got 56M sewn up. It's petty, and to comes across as true greed.
That's a ridiculous statement. No matter how much you have, $2M is a lot. It's funny how we call athletes greedy for wanting as much as possible, but call business men who do the same smart.

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07-01-2013, 08:35 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Oh look. All the "cap hell" posts.

It would help you actually went and looked at our cap for the next season or two before saying that. Because we aren't in cap hell.
Luckily we're not one of those teams in cap hell that DOESN'T have the two best players in the world and a Norris-nominated offensive defenseman.

I have a feeling most people would trade rosters.

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07-01-2013, 08:59 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by pucky View Post
What is Shero smoking?!?
seriously, how has he not gotten this officially done yet? He needs to get it done.

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07-01-2013, 09:04 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by setkreiderfree View Post
Moronic. That is all I can say about that. Letang is a good offensive defenseman who is made to lot a ton better by Crosby and Malkin. Defensively, he's atrocious at times.
Actually that's been shown to be false. Crosby or Malkin were involved in a relatively small percentage of Letang's points last year.

Only 16 of 38.

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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I don't think Boston would move Boychuk, he's too valuable to the team and his contract is very good for what he provides. Their D looks to be set up for at least a couple of years the way it is. They will probably have some work to do at forward depending on how much they can get from their prospects, but they have a few forward prospects that look pretty good.

The Penguins have good looking D prospects and I would be more comfortable if they could re-sign a guy like Engelland for short money to go along with Letang and Martin and a re-signed Despres that leaves 3 spots on D for the guys like Pouliot, Maatta, and Dumoulin. They are all high end prospects and I am almost positive they will be NHL defenseman but I am a little concerned if they will be ready when needed.

The Penguins forwards are a different story
, obviously they will re-sign Sutter and it will probably cost $4 million or close to it, but that still leaves 6 forward spots to fill without much money. Maybe you know better than I do, but I just don't see any obvious Penguin forward prospects that I can say I think will be ready for the NHL. I don't even know who they drafted yesterday so maybe they have a guy there.

This is where I see the Penguins having a difficult time. I am sure that they get through it, I just don't see any obvious solution, that is why these GM's get paid to do their job and I just get to talk about it
That's why smart teams draft BPA and trade for need.

We don't know how FA will play out this year (maybe Dupuis or Iginla will come back and fill out our top 6 at a discount), and a collection of d-men that has Despres, Bortuzzo, Samuelsson, Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, and Maatta either in the NHL, close to NHL roles, or possessing higher-end upside gives us a lot to work with, whether that means shipping out vets or trading prospects for cost-effective help at forward.

Either way, I wouldn't change our "sign elite players, move complementary types" philosophy because of a little cap uncertainty. If push comes to shove, we can always buy out Fleury and replace him with a Shooter Tutor and not miss a beat, haha.

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07-01-2013, 09:48 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Actually that's been shown to be false. Crosby or Malkin were involved in a relatively small percentage of Letang's points last year.

Only 16 of 38.
That doesn't actually contradict anything he wrote. He said Letang is a good offensive dman made better by Crosby and Malkin. 16 out of 38 is roughly 42%. That's not a relatively small %. Mind you, he scores a lot of those points with whomever you put in place of those guys theoretically speaking, but I'm sure you won't argue against the idea that playing with them increases his point totals above what he'd do with any potential replacements. That'd be silly. Also, is that how many points he got that either Sid or Malkin also got a point on, or how many of his points they were on the ice for?

I understand why the Pens inked the contract, but if I'm them I'd turn right around and trade him. He should have quite a bit of value and in my opinion he doesn't bring the needed D in order to justify the 7.25 a year when you also have to pay the top two centers in the league. Just my opinion, of course.

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07-01-2013, 09:50 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
That doesn't actually contradict anything he wrote. He said Letang is a good offensive dman made better by Crosby and Malkin. 16 out of 38 is roughly 42%. That's not a relatively small %. Mind you, he scores a lot of those points with whomever you put in place of those guys theoretically speaking, but I'm sure you won't argue against the idea that playing with them increases his point totals above what he'd do with any potential replacements. That'd be silly. Also, is that how many points he got that either Sid or Malkin also got a point on, or how many of his points they were on the ice for?

I understand why the Pens inked the contract, but if I'm them I'd turn right around and trade him. He should have quite a bit of value and in my opinion he doesn't bring the needed D in order to justify the 7.25 a year when you also have to pay the top two centers in the league. Just my opinion, of course.
And who would replace Letang if he were to be traded?

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07-01-2013, 09:56 AM
  #608
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Somewhat of an overpayment, i was hoping for about a 6 mill cap hit. But in a world where Matt Carle makes 5.5 per i guess it's ok. Either way Letang had to be signed regardless. The pens look worse without Letang than they do without Crosby or Malkin.

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07-01-2013, 10:02 AM
  #609
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And who would replace Letang if he were to be traded?
If it were me I'd be looking at trying to trade him to a team in exchange for a steadier top pairing dman, a guy that's maybe less dynamic on offense and with a smaller cap hit. Maybe a younger guy with lots of upside, plus some other pieces. I don't know if that's out there, but it's what I'd look to do. Letang's a sexy asset given his offensive prowess and could net a quality package I imagine, a GM might think he's the missing piece. Mind you, as a Flyers fan I'm content that he remains a Pen at that cap hit.

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07-01-2013, 10:03 AM
  #610
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I can't believe this thread title has of yet to be changed.

TALKS ARE STILL ONGOING. KRIS LETANG HAS NOT SIGNED AN EXTENSION AS OF YET.
bump

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07-01-2013, 10:04 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
That doesn't actually contradict anything he wrote. He said Letang is a good offensive dman made better by Crosby and Malkin. 16 out of 38 is roughly 42%. That's not a relatively small %. Mind you, he scores a lot of those points with whomever you put in place of those guys theoretically speaking, but I'm sure you won't argue against the idea that playing with them increases his point totals above what he'd do with any potential replacements. That'd be silly. Also, is that how many points he got that either Sid or Malkin also got a point on, or how many of his points they were on the ice for?
Letang is a huge part of the success Crosby and Malkin have as well. The Pens transition game is woeful when he is out of the lineup.

It is a two way street.

Despres will help in that regard, but he will never be at Letang's level. Letang is a freak of nature with his endurance and skating. The Pens could wait another twenty years again like they did between trading Coffey and finding an elite offensive blueliner like Letang.

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I understand why the Pens inked the contract, but if I'm them I'd turn right around and trade him. He should have quite a bit of value and in my opinion he doesn't bring the needed D in order to justify the 7.25 a year when you also have to pay the top two centers in the league. Just my opinion, of course.
Shero isn't Holmgren. His word actually means something.

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07-01-2013, 10:14 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
If it were me I'd be looking at trying to trade him to a team in exchange for a steadier top pairing dman, a guy that's maybe less dynamic on offense and with a smaller cap hit.
Flaws aside, Letang is getting paid because of what he brings. You can highlight areas that are lacking in his game, but that is because of the type of player he is. Should the Blackhawks trade Seabrook and his salary because he doesn't put up monster points?

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Maybe a younger guy with lots of upside, plus some other pieces. I don't know if that's out there, but it's what I'd look to do.
I doubt the Pens could find a player to fill Letang's shoes, at least from what is available. Players like Letang don't grow on trees.

Quote:
Letang's a sexy asset given his offensive prowess and could net a quality package I imagine, a GM might think he's the missing piece. Mind you, as a Flyers fan I'm content that he remains a Pen at that cap hit.
So if Letang is so highly sought after by GMs, why would Shero be wanting to trade him?

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07-01-2013, 10:30 AM
  #613
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Flaws aside, Letang is getting paid because of what he brings. You can highlight areas that are lacking in his game, but that is because of the type of player he is. Should the Blackhawks trade Seabrook and his salary because he doesn't put up monster points?
That's kind of my point, you don't need a dman who puts up monster points, you need a guy who can do the things Letang can't do, which is be a top pairing dman in all facets of the game.

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I doubt the Pens could find a player to fill Letang's shoes, at least from what is available. Players like Letang don't grow on trees.
Again, my point being you don't need a player like Letang. At least not exactly like Letang. You need his transition game but you don't need all of that offense from the blueline, if you could get more of a shutdown guy who could play big minutes against top forwards while at the same time providing a good amount of offensive pop (though less than Letang) you'd be a better team for it. At least in my opinion. If you can get some other valuable pieces as well, great. I do understand that guy might not be out there (he rarely is).

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So if Letang is so highly sought after by GMs, why would Shero be wanting to trade him?
Because he's really expensive for what he does if you already have two ~9 million dollar centers and it prevents you from getting what you really need back there if you ever have the chance.

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07-01-2013, 10:39 AM
  #614
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I'm a Caps fan and think this is a solid deal for the Pens and Letang. I understand some people "hate" a certain team but get over it. Hockey is a business and this deal makes sense for both sides.

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07-01-2013, 10:43 AM
  #615
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That's kind of my point, you don't need a dman who puts up monster points, you need a guy who can do the things Letang can't do, which is be a top pairing dman in all facets of the game.
And despite this, Letang is still an impact player.

Quote:
Again, my point being you don't need a player like Letang. At least not exactly like Letang. You need his transition game but you don't need all of that offense from the blueline, if you could get more of a shutdown guy who could play big minutes against top forwards while at the same time providing a good amount of offensive pop (though less than Letang) you'd be a better team for it. At least in my opinion. If you can get some other valuable pieces as well, great. I do understand that guy might not be out there (he rarely is).
Except the Pens do. They are a drastically different team without him in the lineup. Anybody who recognizes this understands the need for Letang and why he is valued.

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Because he's really expensive for what he does if you already have two ~9 million dollar centers and it prevents you from getting what you really need back there if you ever have the chance.
And this myth has been debunked by other Pens fans. It has been explained in great detail and reiterated in numerous threads.

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07-01-2013, 10:50 AM
  #616
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People forget that the Penguins won the cup with Sergei Gonchar as their #1 defenseman. He's pretty similar to Letang in the sense that both are more offensive oriented and not known for their defensive prowess. So those who are saying that they need a more defensive guy are wrong. The Penguins can and have won with a primarily offensive guy as their #1.

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07-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Steve Holt View Post
And despite this, Letang is still an impact player.
I haven't said otherwise, it's why I think he has good trade value even with the big contract.

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Except the Pens do. They are a drastically different team without him in the lineup. Anybody who recognizes this understands the need for Letang and why he is valued.
I think I wrote the words, "I understand why the Pens inked the deal" in my first post in this thread. I get why he's valued, but he's certainly not an ideal #1 on a cup-contending team. Doughty, Chara, Keith are ideal #1's. Mind you, I understand that those guys don't grow on trees.

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And this myth has been debunked by other Pens fans. It has been explained in great detail and reiterated in numerous threads.
Everything I wrote was my opinion, which I think I laid out quite fairly. If you disagree, that's fine.

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07-01-2013, 10:56 AM
  #618
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People forget that the Penguins won the cup with Sergei Gonchar as their #1 defenseman. He's pretty similar to Letang in the sense that both are more offensive oriented and not known for their defensive prowess. So those who are saying that they need a more defensive guy are wrong. The Penguins can and have won with a primarily offensive guy as their #1.
Gonchar was better in his own zone, particularly in both Pens cups runs. That wasn't always the case however, and he shows it's possible that Letang could put that part of his game together still.

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07-01-2013, 11:07 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
That doesn't actually contradict anything he wrote. He said Letang is a good offensive dman made better by Crosby and Malkin. 16 out of 38 is roughly 42%. That's not a relatively small %. Mind you, he scores a lot of those points with whomever you put in place of those guys theoretically speaking, but I'm sure you won't argue against the idea that playing with them increases his point totals above what he'd do with any potential replacements. That'd be silly. Also, is that how many points he got that either Sid or Malkin also got a point on, or how many of his points they were on the ice for?

I understand why the Pens inked the contract, but if I'm them I'd turn right around and trade him. He should have quite a bit of value and in my opinion he doesn't bring the needed D in order to justify the 7.25 a year when you also have to pay the top two centers in the league. Just my opinion, of course.
Actually, it is a relatively small % for a productive defenseman to score with involvement from the two most productive forwards on his team.

The first comparable I checked was Kronwall, and Datsyuk or Zetterberg were involved in 79% of his points. If you'd like to find some counter-exmples, by all means, crunch some numbers on other productive defensemen to support your argument.

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07-01-2013, 11:07 AM
  #620
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Gonchar was better in his own zone, particularly in both Pens cups runs. That wasn't always the case however, and he shows it's possible that Letang could put that part of his game together still.
No, he certainly wasn't.



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If you'd like to find some counter-exmples, by all means, crunch some numbers on other productive defensemen to support your argument.
Insert "don't have enough time to dive into the specifics" excuse, the same one used by those who are quite troubled by the "cap hell" that has furiously englufed the Pittsburgh organization.

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07-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #621
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Insert "don't have enough time to dive into the specifics" excuse, the same one used by those who are quite troubled by the "cap hell" that has furiously englufed the Pittsburgh organization.
I mean, people are just looking at the number and assuming it's high because it's Letang and Crosby and Malkin. If you don't have a frame of reference, you have no idea how high it is.

We do know that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are nearly twice as involved in Kronwall's points.

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07-01-2013, 11:22 AM
  #622
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As for the Letang signing, as a Flyers fan I'm not unhappy about it. He's got great physical skills, not nearly as great mental skills.
So for $2m more you wouldn’t rather have Letang for 8 years instead of Streit? This question gets even more jabbing when we see what contract Coburn signs as a UFA in 2016.

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Moronic. That is all I can say about that. Letang is a good offensive defenseman who is made to lot a ton better by Crosby and Malkin.
Is that why Letang outscored Crosby and tied Malkin for the team lead in playoff points?

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07-01-2013, 11:28 AM
  #623
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Actually, it is a relatively small % for a productive defenseman to score with involvement from the two most productive forwards on his team.

The first comparable I checked was Kronwall, and Datsyuk or Zetterberg were involved in 79% of his points. If you'd like to find some counter-exmples, by all means, crunch some numbers on other productive defensemen to support your argument.
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No, he certainly wasn't.



Insert "don't have enough time to dive into the specifics" excuse, the same one used by those who are quite troubled by the "cap hell" that has furiously englufed the Pittsburgh organization.
I've laid out my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine. If you want to take exception to people agreeing that Letang's a good offensive defenseman or that he's an impact player, fine. If you want to argue that playing with the best two players in the world doesn't help Letang's offensive stats, fine. If you want to show me one youtube clip and say it proves me wrong, fine. I'm certain that I could easily pull up a bunch of Pens fans posts circa 2009 arguing that Gonchar was very effective in his own zone, but I don't have enough time to dive into specifics.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

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07-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
I've laid out my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine. If you want to take exception to people agreeing that Letang's a good offensive defenseman or that he's an impact player, fine. If you want to argue that playing with the best two players in the world doesn't help Letang's offensive stats, fine. If you want to show me one youtube clip and say it proves me wrong, fine. I'm certain that I could easily pull up a bunch of Pens fans posts circa 2009 arguing that Gonchar was very effective in his own zone, but I don't have enough time to dive into specifics.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Anyone's offensive stats would be inflated playing with the two best players in the world buddy.

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07-01-2013, 12:13 PM
  #625
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Originally Posted by Beauner View Post
People forget that the Penguins won the cup with Sergei Gonchar as their #1 defenseman. He's pretty similar to Letang in the sense that both are more offensive oriented and not known for their defensive prowess. So those who are saying that they need a more defensive guy are wrong. The Penguins can and have won with a primarily offensive guy as their #1.


Yes but Gonchar ran the PP. he would slide into the middle of the ice and slapshot the puck right on net almost every time. We certianly miss that. Letang sure cant do it. We also had alot of Shutdown guys on the roster when we won the cup

Gonchar
Scuderi
Orpik
Gill
Letang
Eaton

Ranked by icetime. 2 offensive and 4 defensive. I like that ratio

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